Harald Motz
Level 8 Valued Member
As I am about to snatch (a lot) the upcoming weeks, I want to make sure, to get really solid in execution. Thanks in advance for any input.
Kettlebell critique my technique (one arm snatch, 32kg)
- Thread starter Harald Motz
- Start date
- Status
Looks great, Harald. Everything looks solid and safe, and I'd say that it meets all standards. Very strong.
Here's one thing if you're looking for fine tuning, and I wouldn't call it a flaw, but something maybe to consider. That is, where the force is coming from of getting the bell up. It appears that a lot of it is coming from throwing the upper body backwards for the upwards trajectory of the bell, where I think (keeping in mind that I've never snatched a 32kg
) you could tweak this to where you are getting all the force from 1) coming to the plank (really focus on being tight between abs and upper quads as you come to standing), and then 2) a quick and forceful contraction of the upper back, like with a high pull. Then the bell floats up to be caught at the top, just as you are doing already in that final stage.
Here's one thing if you're looking for fine tuning, and I wouldn't call it a flaw, but something maybe to consider. That is, where the force is coming from of getting the bell up. It appears that a lot of it is coming from throwing the upper body backwards for the upwards trajectory of the bell, where I think (keeping in mind that I've never snatched a 32kg
) you could tweak this to where you are getting all the force from 1) coming to the plank (really focus on being tight between abs and upper quads as you come to standing), and then 2) a quick and forceful contraction of the upper back, like with a high pull. Then the bell floats up to be caught at the top, just as you are doing already in that final stage.Steve W.
Level 8 Valued Member
Harald,
+1 for all of Anna's comments. To reiterate:
Overall solid and safe.
Try to rely more on driving your hips forward, rather than driving the shoulders back. "Hips drive; arm guides."
On the drop, you might try to get your elbow in tight to your body sooner. You are casting the bell forward "over a barrel." This tends to pull you forward and make it harder to aborb the force of the drop with your hips and get a full deep backswing, as well as putting a more abrupt stress on the grip.
Finally, it looks like you are starting your forward hip drive a little early. Let the back swing completely finish. When you start your hip drive too early you waste some of your forward hip drive braking the backward momentum of the bell and put and addition stress on your grip reversing out of the hole.
Hope this helps.
+1 for all of Anna's comments. To reiterate:
Overall solid and safe.
Try to rely more on driving your hips forward, rather than driving the shoulders back. "Hips drive; arm guides."
On the drop, you might try to get your elbow in tight to your body sooner. You are casting the bell forward "over a barrel." This tends to pull you forward and make it harder to aborb the force of the drop with your hips and get a full deep backswing, as well as putting a more abrupt stress on the grip.
Finally, it looks like you are starting your forward hip drive a little early. Let the back swing completely finish. When you start your hip drive too early you waste some of your forward hip drive braking the backward momentum of the bell and put and addition stress on your grip reversing out of the hole.
Hope this helps.
Al Ciampa
Level 7 Valued Member
It doesn't mean that I am correct, but I don't see this at all.
The drop can be improved, but I am sure the high volume he is about to undertake will be his best teacher.
Steve W.
Level 8 Valued Member
Hey Al, I thought I saw a little bell flipping at the bottom, but I took a second look at the video just now (in light of your comment), and I'm not sure I see it now.
If he is reversing a hair early, he'll feel it in a jerk on his grip. As you say, a high volume is a great teacher. Doing Kenneth Jay's VWC :15/:15 program up to 16kg x 8 x 80 sets and 24kg x 7 x 60 sets did a lot to fine tune my snatch form.
Is Harald starting a program of yours?
Harald Motz
Level 8 Valued Member
Thanks so far. Seems, that I have got a decent base to build up from. @Anna C : good point, to plank some more and or better @Steve W. : good point, to get my elbow tight, lat engagement, arc taming. And I really need to have some focus on my hinge, as I have the tendency, to be a little shallow on that, meaning my knees coming forward a bit to much.
What strikes me, seeing myself snatching (what can be improved): - THE SET UP - head positioning (bit more extension at the bottom, neutral in lockout) - stance could be a bit more narrow - not so much internal rotation of my hand at the bottom
What strikes me, seeing myself snatching (what can be improved): - THE SET UP - head positioning (bit more extension at the bottom, neutral in lockout) - stance could be a bit more narrow - not so much internal rotation of my hand at the bottom
I have completed two already this year.
Al Ciampa
Level 7 Valued Member
He completed two passes through a 1-h swing protocol and is now beginning an A+A snatch protocol. Would you like in? We'd love to have you on board. Nothing but heavy snatches, starting around the 8th.
Harald Motz
Level 8 Valued Member
So today I set a baseline to have something to compare. Technique will be getting better and smoother. Forgot about nose breathing between sets (it is easier said than done, when the system is screaming). Have to get breathing right while working, started with one breath per rep, running out of gas quickly. "Breathing Snatches". Work in progress...
Mr. Motz,
That looks like solid work to me. I do have a few questions if you don't mind
- Where are you catching the handle?
- Where / when are you "trying" to breath?
- Is that chalk?
- How are your hands after each side's reps?
- Are you gaining any insight to movement patterns from the volume?
I apologize for all the questions, but I am attempting a similar endeavor and I would really like to hear what you, and like minded folks, have to say about high volume snatching. I'm always looking to refine technique.
Thanks for your time, sir.
That looks like solid work to me. I do have a few questions if you don't mind
- Where are you catching the handle?
- Where / when are you "trying" to breath?
- Is that chalk?
- How are your hands after each side's reps?
- Are you gaining any insight to movement patterns from the volume?
I apologize for all the questions, but I am attempting a similar endeavor and I would really like to hear what you, and like minded folks, have to say about high volume snatching. I'm always looking to refine technique.
Thanks for your time, sir.
Harald Motz
Level 8 Valued Member
@Miguel : first of all, just call me Harald. To be honest, I am not an experienced snatcher, but right on the road to be getting one.
weeks meaning braced exhale in lockout with immediate inhale, one breath per rep. I turned out of gas quickly. Then I changed to two breaths per rep, meaning braced exhale and inhale in the bottom of the swing and in the lockout.
Hope you get something out of my explanation(s)
when I start a set (upswing), the handle is in the hook of my fingers, and stays there until the punch through. In the lockout the handle is in the palms. Shortly after lockout, when the bell turns around, I try to get the handle soon in the hooks of the fingers (here the handle can cause a lot of friction to the palm, when gripping to tight. I think, that the hand best has to be almost loose, to let the bell turn without resistance) and try to tame the arc, meaning getting the elbow close to the body: Personal Space Rules When Snatching the Kettlebell - StrongFirst
in my first 20reps or so, I breathed like I practiced my sets of five for the last two
weeks meaning braced exhale in lockout with immediate inhale, one breath per rep. I turned out of gas quickly. Then I changed to two breaths per rep, meaning braced exhale and inhale in the bottom of the swing and in the lockout.
Yes
Surprisingly well, as they are getting tougher for the last two weeks of practice and you have to know, that I come from 12 weeks of Al Ciampa's swing protocol, and by now have quite some experience in handcare, learned the hard way. But regarding hands, snatches are a different animal than swings (the SSST with24kg about four weeks ago, my hands (palms though) were a mess, which I think is pretty normal, when snatching only for test)
as I am just really beginning to snatch for volume I will have to say something about that later
Me too, and by the way, I am following the best protocol to accomplish this (when it comes to the snatch). The best program is always the program I am currently doing.
Hope you get something out of my explanation(s)
JonS
Level 7 Valued Member
Al Ciampa
Level 7 Valued Member
That 0 should be a 4, yes? ;]
banzaiengr
Level 6 Valued Member
Great job Harald, your breathing sounded like a locomotive! It's always bright and shiny in Studsville. ; )
Tarzan
Level 6 Valued Member
Nice work Harald !
I may have missed something here as I've never read S&S, but is the nose breathing between sets a requirement for S&S training ?
All the studies I've read and personal experience showed mouth breathing boosted V02 max when you cross the anaerobic threshold, which you seemed to be dipping into there.
The nose breathing/Buteko method for me was always seen as a method to promote deep breathing at rest or at aerobic rates.
When I was cycling competitively we were drilled to mouth breathe once we crossed the anaerobic threshold. We were also trained to focus on expelling the breath rather than focusing on breathing in.
I may have missed something here as I've never read S&S, but is the nose breathing between sets a requirement for S&S training ?
All the studies I've read and personal experience showed mouth breathing boosted V02 max when you cross the anaerobic threshold, which you seemed to be dipping into there.
The nose breathing/Buteko method for me was always seen as a method to promote deep breathing at rest or at aerobic rates.
When I was cycling competitively we were drilled to mouth breathe once we crossed the anaerobic threshold. We were also trained to focus on expelling the breath rather than focusing on breathing in.
Harald Motz
Level 8 Valued Member
@Tarzan: not a requirement, but using as a means to stay calm and/or cam down. Maybe it is self regulating in that way, that when you nose breathe only you may can not go into the really red zone.
Good point. When you get to or over some threshold or heart rate it definitely gets harder (maybe almost impossible?) to nose breathe only? I was very aware on my last 10min running test, as the last three minutes or so my nostrils were not wide enough and narrowed even more, the more air I had to sniff in. So I breathed through the mouth, to get oxygen.
To learn to exhale completely Pavel lays in S&S the straw breathing drill.
Breathing and breath control is something "tedious" to work on. It is a skill. A long road to go.
@Steve Freides ?
Good point. When you get to or over some threshold or heart rate it definitely gets harder (maybe almost impossible?) to nose breathe only? I was very aware on my last 10min running test, as the last three minutes or so my nostrils were not wide enough and narrowed even more, the more air I had to sniff in. So I breathed through the mouth, to get oxygen.
To learn to exhale completely Pavel lays in S&S the straw breathing drill.
Breathing and breath control is something "tedious" to work on. It is a skill. A long road to go.
@Steve Freides ?
Harald,
Thank you for the indepth answers. I sincerely appreciate your time.
Great article, BTW. I have been trying to get the handle onto my fingers, but thus far it has been an unsuccessful attempt. Mostly the handle stays in my palm, in the center of my palm, well under the fat pads. Interestingly, this is creating a whole new set of calluses inbetween the "railroad tracks" that go across my palms. Like you said, gripping the handle tight is causing them, so I am trying to keep my grip in a tight loose tight state. I think honestly, I am just scared of losing the bell on the drop, if I just use fingers. I may have to refocus and reattack.
Thanks for explaining the double breath, I am not smart enough to figure out how to do that from watching a video. I have been bouncing back and forth from breathing in at lockout (RKC) and breathing in at the bottom (ETK). I am interested to hear if you find a better breathing pattern during your snatch training.
Do you file, razor, lotion, etc? Or does the chalk prevent significant damage?
Eager to hear.
I got a lot, and thank you once again. Good luck with the program, it looks like fun.
Thank you for the indepth answers. I sincerely appreciate your time.
Great article, BTW. I have been trying to get the handle onto my fingers, but thus far it has been an unsuccessful attempt. Mostly the handle stays in my palm, in the center of my palm, well under the fat pads. Interestingly, this is creating a whole new set of calluses inbetween the "railroad tracks" that go across my palms. Like you said, gripping the handle tight is causing them, so I am trying to keep my grip in a tight loose tight state. I think honestly, I am just scared of losing the bell on the drop, if I just use fingers. I may have to refocus and reattack.
Thanks for explaining the double breath, I am not smart enough to figure out how to do that from watching a video. I have been bouncing back and forth from breathing in at lockout (RKC) and breathing in at the bottom (ETK). I am interested to hear if you find a better breathing pattern during your snatch training.
Do you file, razor, lotion, etc? Or does the chalk prevent significant damage?
Eager to hear.
I got a lot, and thank you once again. Good luck with the program, it looks like fun.
B.Hetzler
Level 3 Valued Member
Lots of details above.
Nobody mentioned your head position. I'd lift your chin an inch or two at the top - it appears your head is down. Is your timer (or has your timer been) on the ground in front of you? Typically, this set up gets people into the bad habit of a downward tilt of the head. Under fatigue, this will get more pronounced. Why is this important? There is this thing called the pelvo-occular reflex - if your head (eyes) are down it makes it more difficult to hit full hip extension (your body tends to stay slightly flexed). If you are going into high volume snatching, you are going to want all the hip extension you can get. `
Just what I saw.
Nobody mentioned your head position. I'd lift your chin an inch or two at the top - it appears your head is down. Is your timer (or has your timer been) on the ground in front of you? Typically, this set up gets people into the bad habit of a downward tilt of the head. Under fatigue, this will get more pronounced. Why is this important? There is this thing called the pelvo-occular reflex - if your head (eyes) are down it makes it more difficult to hit full hip extension (your body tends to stay slightly flexed). If you are going into high volume snatching, you are going to want all the hip extension you can get. `
Just what I saw.
- Status