Other/Mixed Bodyweight vs Strength Potential

[Kit Meyer]

So I'm a 5' 10", 190 lbs guy. I work with KBs most of the time and considered strong and fit by most people. But when I get under the barbell, I'm mediocre at best. It shouldn't be too surprising since I hardly ever touch barbells; working out at home with my bells is too convenient to pass up.

But lately, I've been deployed for the last 7 weeks, so I put myself on a TSC program, which required working with the barbell some. The deadlift was in there (obviously) but I also added some bench and a front squat.

I decided to give some 1RM of the core lifts for a try. I was pleased, but unsatisfied.

DL: 385

Bench: 235

Squat: 305

These are better numbers than I've had historically, but according to some scales, I'm still average for a 190 lbs man. The base has a "1000 lbs Club" and I see stats for other 190 lbs guys and they're way out of my league as far as the barbell goes.

This gets me wondering about the relationship between bodyweight and strength potential. Some men and women are going to be bigger, while some will be smaller. Some are made for the track, some are made for the platform. We all have different potentials and optimal states.

Using myself as an example. I'm somewhat self-conscious my weight, because my family has potential for obesity, and I fight to stay out of that. I eat hardy, but I try to limit my intake. This probably limits the gains, but I'd rather not compromise my health. I have a huge appetite, so the advice "EAT" does not give good direction; give me the liberty, I can down thousands of calories in any given sitting. On the flipside, it's obvious that the strongmen of the world don't have dainty meals. I remember Mark Rippetoe responding to a BJJ fighter asking about getting stronger and staying in his weight class, to which Mr Rippetoe responded (with a bit of snark) "I don't understand". According to him, you should get stronger and stronger, and weight is a side issue. I know he's held in high regard in the strength training community, but I was never really satisfied with his answer. So this got me wondering about bodyweight and strength potential...

Using myself as an example,

Is 190 lbs merely a "cocoon" stage for me and I should eat big, lift heavy, and damn the consequences?

Is 190 lbs bulky and I should focus on losing the weight, because maybe I'm really a 175 lbs lifter?

Or 190 is just fine and I should just get stronger within that range?

Or all of the above are valid and it really depends what the goal is?

I'm not looking for advice (ok yeah I kinda am) I'm wondering what the philosophies are out there as far as strength potential and bodyweight.

 

[Steve Freides]

@Kit Meyer, the choice is completely yours. Here at StrongFirst, we highly value the skill of strength. I weigh 150 lbs. and have no need to weigh more. If you're asking for my recommendation, it would be "make the most of what you've got" by focusing on your skill and not worry about trying to add muscle size.

To that end, pick a goal and we'll help you plan how to achieve it. You could, e.g., start with try to get 4 wheels on your deadlift, which would be 405 lbs.

Welcome to StrongFirst!

-S-

 

[MattM]

Shoot for a 500# deadlift and consequences be damned (to a point). See what happens.

 

[wespom9]

@Kit Meyer - what do you want to do?

do you want to be heavier than 190 lbs? are you a lean 190?

those 190 lb guys who are "out of your league" - that is because they value working with a barbell. If you do not use a barbell, why worry about your numbers in the lifts?

You are 2x BW deadlift, 1.5x squat and 1.2x bench. in the general scheme of things, you are not weak by any measure. (by the way my relative numbers are eerily similar so maybe I'm biased in saying this is not weak hahaha). This is a by-product your other training as well keep in mind - you said you rarely do barbell work!

We all have different potentials and optimal states. We also all have varying interests. Remember - jack of all trades, master of none. If you want really high barbell lifts, you can't expend energy on KB or bodyweight work. If you value those instead, don't worry about your specific barbell strength.

Also - it may take a few times under the bar to grease the movement again as well. I hadn't benched in 2+ years and tried last week to bench body weight (150). hit it 2 times. did 3 workouts on the bench and hit 4 times the other day. Something to be said for that.

 

[Kit Meyer]

Thanks for the responses everyone! I'm pretty much set on keeping steady on 190. If for whatever reason, I decide to compete for a weight class (middle weight most likely), I'll drop it. But I'm comfortable cruising in the 180s-190s. But if I stumble into the 200s and become a clone of Dmitry Klokov in the process, I'd welcome that too.

I was mostly wondering about general training philosophies.
What principles would make a coach walk up to an athlete and say "I think you need to gain/lose x pounds to reach your potential."

 

[Steve Freides]

Look at the powerlifting records of Rickey Dale Crain. He started as a 148; when he moved up to 165, his numbers went up by quite a lot. When he went up to 181, his numbers went up but not so much.

-S-

 

[Whiskey_Fox]

Hey @Kit Meyer

I've been in your situation quite a few times before on deployments. Now what I found works for me, and seems to hold some weight, is "nutrient timing". Now as an example in the Spring 2016 TSC I competed via video submission while on deployment. I weighed in at 187 pounds, pulled 500#, 18 pullups, and 111 snatches (the deadlift took alot out of me). I never pulled more than 450 prior to this, though what I experimented with was making sure to get a bulk of my calories within 1 hour of finishing my workout (especially if it was a heavy deadlift day). Now keep in mind I was keeping up with my cardio 3x per week along with prepping for the TSC. I was consuming between 1900-2100 calories/day, I will admit my goal was to slim down a bit, but like I discovered for myself, meal timing is "just as" important was what you're eating.

So with that being said, and without getting into the weeds about macros, etc, I would experiment with timing your meals around your workout (or workouts, if you do more than 1 per day). Judge your progress based off of performance rather than weight as your weight can fluctuate between 3-5lbs per day.

Keep up the good work
-WF