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Kettlebell Question about moving up a bell size

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patterner

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I did some searching and I couldn't find this particular question, so I hope it's not been asked before and I missed it.

From my understanding (please correct me if wrong) when moving up a bell size, that I should wait until I can "own" the current size. For instance, hitting the time standard (10 minutes for TGUs) and feeling good the next day. But what about adding in the sets at the new weight? For instance, I moved up from 16-24 recently in my TGUs. I was consistently hitting ~9min for the TGUs with the 16. When I added my first set with the 24 as my second set, I bumped up to 11 min for the TGUs. I just recently added my second set with the 24 (so, 16, 24, 24, 16, 16), and went up to about 13 min for the TGUs.

My question is, should I test and make sure I'm below 10 minutes before I add another set, or just add another as I feel capable, and once all my sets are with the new bell *then* start working on bringing my times down?
 
There's a few different ways to go about it, and so long as you're always staying within the realm of keeping things easy enough that you can train on a daily basis, then they should all work about as well. Personally, I added one heavy set at a time as I felt comfortable. You could pick a ceiling that you try to keep the TGU time under, and then a time that tells you to add another heavy set. For instance, I tried to never let my TGU time drift up past 12 minutes, and if I could consistently get under 9 minutes I knew it was definitely time to add another heavy set. Really, the numbers are pretty arbitrary, so go with whatever format keeps you from getting stagnant, without pushing you too hard.
 
In addition to the previous replies, you can confidently move up in bell size on the TGU by adding specific accessory work twice a week:

*Push-ups (horizontal push is lacking in most KB training programs)
*Heavy waiter carry holds for time
*Waiter Carry walk for long distance (light bell)
*Heavy 1H Farmer Carries
*Heavy 1H Rack Carries
*Waiter / Rack Combo walk (1 side racked, 1 side waiter)
*Practicing the Arm Bar (light bell)
*Crawling, especially backwards
 
Thanks for the reply Nathan. These are great accessory exercises, couple of questions:
What's heavy for the ones listed as heavy? The same weight bell that I'm moving up to, or just perceived as heavy? Ditto for light...I presume we're talking either the bell I'm on, or possibly one lower (for instance, if I'm moving from 16 to 24, maybe the 12 is considered light)?
Why 1H farmer carries? Is it the stabilization aspect?

Thanks again for the replies! This forum rocks!
 
Thanks for the reply Nathan. These are great accessory exercises, couple of questions:
What's heavy for the ones listed as heavy? The same weight bell that I'm moving up to, or just perceived as heavy? Ditto for light...I presume we're talking either the bell I'm on, or possibly one lower (for instance, if I'm moving from 16 to 24, maybe the 12 is considered light)?
Why 1H farmer carries? Is it the stabilization aspect?

Thanks again for the replies! This forum rocks!

For a basic programming guideline, "Heavy" is the heaviest you can go 25 paces with and maintain grip / posture before parking the bell. Yes, 1H Carries reinforce the "anti rotation" element that we are looking for (tying your "X" together). 1H carries compliment your S&S work of Getups and 1H swings perfectly as well.
 
Thanks again for the quick reply!

Looks like I'll be getting a 32 sooner than I thought...I took the 24 for a 100 pace walk in each hand yesterday and probably could have gone farther.
 
I thought of another question in this vein that I couldn't find on a search of the forum, so I thought I'd ask it here.

I started my S&S with the 16 for swings. The way I've been progressing it, I've been working up to the 24 (which is the starting "standard" in the book) with the 5x10 swings talked about for starting out. Is this correct? Or should I move my 16 up to 10x10 before working in the 24?
 
I believe the book says to mix in the new weight, in other words, keep doing your 10 sets at the old weight - but swap in a set or two of the new weight - until eventually you are doing all the sets at the new weight. I've found this to work for me so far. With swings I've been adding the new weight in the last sets to make sure I still have "gas" by the last sets. With TGU I tend to add them in the middle. IE: old, old, new, old, old and then old, new, old, new, old, etc.
 
@patterner that is a good question, and you have to read carefully in the book to see. I think you have it right, 5 x 10 w/ 24kg.

@Bonkin 's answer is right for subsequent weight increases, and this could also be used for 16 to 24 transition, but as you pointed out, S&S page 51 has an "Average strength gentleman" and a "Strong gentleman" both starting with 24kg swings, 5 x 10, using some as 2H if necessary. Then, (p. 53), if you are fully recovering from day to day, increase the swing volume by 50%; 7-8 x 10 (total). Then, when ready, up the swing total to 10 x 10.

That said, it's important to feel comfortable with what you are doing, so listen to your body and your intuition, as well!

Another option (which I have used with male beginner students) is do your 2H swings with the 24kg, and 1H swings with the 16kg. Do the number of sets (between 5 and 10) that feels right to you -- a challenge, but you recover well for another session the next day.
 
+1 to adding in a new set everytime you feel the lift will be completed safely. Especially on the TGUs or any other lift which implies an overhead lockout: finding the thing above your head is not your training weight and it's rapidly falling down is not the best scenario.

As far as progression, I wouldn't progress to the next bell untill I have a good base of 10x10 in the weight I want to leave behind. I would also say, hit a comfortable time limit with that weight. It doesn't mean you should be able to win the New York Marathon after your hundred swings, it means you should feel your heart rate elevated to a point were it's fast but not racing, you can speak decently and you feel a little soreness on your lower back but not the classic bodybuilding pain for gains (a little bit is undersandable: you just lifted 1600 kg in less than 5 minutes). Like I said many times, I have a different history in S&S and don't follow it by the letter because I can't do it, but remember it's a general program, not something specific for yourself. What @Anna C said is what I did when I had less than zero knowledge of fitness: I listenend to my body and applied base principles of surviving - if you feel like what you're doing is harmful, it probably is. A reasonable amount discomfort is what resistence training is supposed to work on, a threatening amount is not.
Also, I give you my personal experience: 16 kg is a weight most men can manage and build a foundation on, 24 kg are not. Don't underestimate them. They are not "standard" by any mean. They will become light, one day, but they are not. Ask any avarage trained guy to sustain a volume of one hundred swings (one or two handed) in less than five minutes and he'll most likely break really soon. Progress carefuly, S&S isn't going anywhere and patiance will give far greater rewards than haste.

I don't want to sound like a doom bearer, I'm just a regular guy who happens to have dropped a 24 kg bell literally half a inch away from the calf bone and a 32 kg on the thight of a planted leg, both times during a TGU. I'm not bragging about it, I'm not that stupid, and again I don't want to frighten anyonw, but I just want to let you know I speak by experience: progress when you are 100% sure it's the right time.

Pain is inevitable in training, whether for an improvement or an injury depends only on us.
 
Thanks everyone for the replies!

@Anna C Yeah, that's exactly what I was asking. Thanks for the additional options!

@Frank_IT That's a great viewpoint! Thanks for your words of encouragement.
 
@Steve Freides , thank you! It's always nice for me to hear your approval!

@patterner your welcome! ;) I'm nothing much than a novice really, I just try to help out by telling my experiencies (that's why I have a sigh of relief everytime people like Steve validate my point).
 
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