Other/Mixed Isometric, tension and muscle control

[mikhael]

Hey everyone. I would like to incorporate few sessions of isometric into my training and just wondering how to do it? How long single tension should be? 5 maybe 6 seconds? How many sets? Should I split it to upper and lower body and do it in separated days?
Maybe some of You guys have an experience with that and could give me any advice?

 

[ClaudeR]

what is your current training? It depends on what you want to achieve (as Al says, context is everything)
probably one of the best tension exercises is the TGU, although that is moving tension, not clearly isometric holds...

 

[offwidth]

Hey everyone. I would like to incorporate few sessions of isometric into my training and just wondering how to do it? How long single tension should be? 5 maybe 6 seconds? How many sets? Should I split it to upper and lower body and do it in separated days?
Maybe some of You guys have an experience with that and could give me any advice?

Michael... I know that you are also on a pull-up journey... Here's an interesting one for you that I heard about years back(very reliable source). Disclaimer: I have never tried it.
You need to rig some kind of solid strap at floor level under your pull-up apparatus. The idea is that you hook your feet under this strap, grab your bar or rings or whatever and do a 'pull-up' against the tension. Obviously you don't do a pull-up but you try like heck. The isometric pull up so to speak.

 

[North Coast Miller]

I'm also very interested in this. Normally I do a little "yielding iso" on the last set of some exercises, but that's not really the same thing.

From what I understand you can simply find some ropes, towels etc and imitate basic movement patterns/lifts with 100% resistance. I also understand it helps if doing this comprehensively, to repeat the movement from a few different points in the ROM.

I believe a "rep" should be about 20-30 seconds.

My only long term experience with this is when I used to work a lot of OT I'd do isometrics with the leash while running the dog. Hold the leash in front of me and pull with both hands to hit the back and lats, wrap it across my back /upper arms and press the hands out and toward each other to hit the pecs and delts. You can do a lot of variations to target specific muscle groups.

As I recall a rep would go about a minute - this not being true static iso as I was jogging at the same time.

I have heard this is good for hypertrophy but my results wound up being more speed than power - I really noticed it on the heavy bag and especially the double ended bag.

I hope more folks respond.

 

[MattM]

Google "Bud Jeffries" isometrics

 

[TravisDirks]

Google "Bud Jeffries" isometrics

+1 Buds got some awesome material on this. Highly recommended. He's got a fun 30 day challenge if you want to get an idea about it too.

You can also check out Bob Hoffman's book on functional Isometrics. It's very far from the best written book(sort of 1950 style marketing hype) but it contains an important idea, which is the use of weight with isometrics. Use a weight you'd normally work with, then push into something. This is the core of a lot of Buds work too. What the weight adds among other things is an Gauge of your output that doesn't lie. Your feeling about effort can be pretty relative, but when you can't keep the weight in place you know your done.

Do you have a power rack available?

For length of holds traditionally (back to Hoffman) you are aiming for 5-15 sec.
On spits and number of times a week it's like other things - higher intensity requires more rest. Personally I don't see the point of pushing on something that I can't move sub-maximally so I like to attempt full intensity. I've done 1/4 squats and overhead press one day and rack pulls a different day before.

I can't offer a program, but I'll post back this evening on what I've been up too.

 

[coachnathanwhite]

@mikhael Isometrics are awesome and can be implemented in a variety of ways. I have never used them on their own, but rather as auxiliary exercises in an effort to enhance movement quality and performance. Here are a few examples of the isometric and the corresponding movement:

*Push-Up Plank for 10 seconds (Push-Ups)
*McGill Side Plank for 10 seconds (SL Deadlift; 1H Swings)
*Flexed arm hang for 10 seconds (Pull-Ups)
*Standing Adductor Squeeze for 10 seconds (Deadlift)
*Lacrosse Ball Squeeze for 10 seconds (Pull-Ups, Deadlift)
*DBL KB Rack Hold for 20 seconds (Farmer Carry)
*Lat activation with barbell for 10 seconds (Back Squat)
*Wedging into the squat cage for 10 seconds (Military Press)

 

[Wesker11]

Anyone have Bud Jeffries DVD's? I've always been intrigued by iso's, and have read about them here and there. Especially the speed gaining aspect.

 

[TravisDirks]

Anyone have Bud Jeffries DVD's? I've always been intrigued by iso's, and have read about them here and there. Especially the speed gaining aspect.

I've got his Isometric Superset's DVD. It's awesome and the Extreme Power with Isometric DVDs are very high on my wishlist. The piece that I've actually incorporated so far over the past two month is Functional Isometrics in the power rack. Functional Isometrics is essentially heavy partials + Isometric resistance. So for instance in a squat you might set the pins 4" below lockout, then set another set of pins an inch or two before lockout. Then you get under it and press the weight up into the top bars. Your set is done when you've gone too long (it's too light) or you can't keep the weight pressed into the top bars. Bud likes to work between 5 and up to 30 second hold. I believe Hoffman's recommendation was closer to 5 sec. Generally you'd do 3 sets with the isometric bars set at the bottom, middle, and top of the lift. Or some people like to just do them at there sticking point on a lift.

I've been working mostly the top end of the range of motion where you can lift the most. I've been doing mainly Overhead press, 1/4 squat and rackpull(Deadlift). Probably my craziest progress has been in the 1/4 squat. Here we're talking about roughly a 4" lift. 2 months ago I was at 315, This week it did 635lbs for 20 seconds! There is something very pleasant about the combination of huge weight and huge increase in ability. (I assume because I've never worked partials before.).

For these past 2 months I've been working like this:

• Set up the lift with 225 on the bar. If I can't figure out something to push against (It's pretty tough finding a powerrack with two sets of pins!) I just held the lockout instead.
  
• do 5 reps the hold for 30 seconds.
  
• add a pair of 45's or 25's depending on the lift and how high I can go and do another set
• Add more weight and repeat.
  
• When 5 reps don't feel easy, I switch to a single hold.
  
• When my hold gets to 5 or 10 seconds or below I usually move on to something else.

One mistake I made I believe was doing holds in the lockout where most of the weight is held by the bones when I couldn't arrange a top set of pins. While this type of training has it's own merits, it doesn't mimic the functional isometric where you are pushing against an immovable object just before lockout. What I've started doing instead is doing the hold just before lockout as described here(podcast) and here(book) when I can't arrange the isometric for whatever reason.

If you want to get an idea work some of the suggestions in his 30 day isometric challenge. Here are a few to give you an idea:
Over head press
Row
Kettlebell Press
Atlas Stone

@mikhael I hope something in here is helpful to you! I'm excited others are picking up isometrics!
http://anunconventionalife.com/2016/04/28/day-3-of-the-30-day-isometric-challenge/

 

[JeffC]

@TravisDirks In Steve Justas awesome book "Rock, Iron, and Steel" he writes about partials and holds also. I have not read anything by Bud Jefferies, but I love that book.

I have played with strand pulling exercises over the years. There are quite a few pulls where you can do partials, and/or hold for time.

 

[offwidth]

@mikhael...
Geoff's post reminded me about another pull-up drill that is sort of isometric in nature. I posted it somewhere else on the site. It's called a 'Frenchie'
1. Pull-up to the top position hold (lock-off) for a count (5) then lower.
2. Pull-up to the top position and lower until upper arms are parallel to the floor and hold for the same count, then lower.
3. Pull-up to the top position and lower until your upper arms are about 45deg and hold for the same count, then lower.
This is one 'rep'. Repeat as necessary. I used a count of 5 as an example. You can vary this.

 

[Wesker11]

@TravisDirks, thanks for the info. I have a feeling I'll be picking up Extreme Power shortly.

 

[mikhael]

what is your current training? It depends on what you want to achieve (as Al says, context is everything)
probably one of the best tension exercises is the TGU, although that is moving tension, not clearly isometric holds...

My current training is based on this art http://www.strongfirst.com/seven-basic-human-movements/ but pull movement I'm doing with GTG formula.

Michael... I know that you are also on a pull-up journey... Here's an interesting one for you that I heard about years back(very reliable source). Disclaimer: I have never tried it.
You need to rig some kind of solid strap at floor level under your pull-up apparatus. The idea is that you hook your feet under this strap, grab your bar or rings or whatever and do a 'pull-up' against the tension. Obviously you don't do a pull-up but you try like heck. The isometric pull up so to speak.

That is very interesting exercise and mayby I'll try it.

I'm also very interested in this. Normally I do a little "yielding iso" on the last set of some exercises, but that's not really the same thing.

From what I understand you can simply find some ropes, towels etc and imitate basic movement patterns/lifts with 100% resistance. I also understand it helps if doing this comprehensively, to repeat the movement from a few different points in the ROM.

I believe a "rep" should be about 20-30 seconds.

My only long term experience with this is when I used to work a lot of OT I'd do isometrics with the leash while running the dog. Hold the leash in front of me and pull with both hands to hit the back and lats, wrap it across my back /upper arms and press the hands out and toward each other to hit the pecs and delts. You can do a lot of variations to target specific muscle groups.

As I recall a rep would go about a minute - this not being true static iso as I was jogging at the same time.

I have heard this is good for hypertrophy but my results wound up being more speed than power - I really noticed it on the heavy bag and especially the double ended bag.

I hope more folks respond.

20-30s is too long. I thing 5-10s should be better option.

+1 Buds got some awesome material on this. Highly recommended. He's got a fun 30 day challenge if you want to get an idea about it too.

You can also check out Bob Hoffman's book on functional Isometrics. It's very far from the best written book(sort of 1950 style marketing hype) but it contains an important idea, which is the use of weight with isometrics. Use a weight you'd normally work with, then push into something. This is the core of a lot of Buds work too. What the weight adds among other things is an Gauge of your output that doesn't lie. Your feeling about effort can be pretty relative, but when you can't keep the weight in place you know your done.

Do you have a power rack available?

For length of holds traditionally (back to Hoffman) you are aiming for 5-15 sec.
On spits and number of times a week it's like other things - higher intensity requires more rest. Personally I don't see the point of pushing on something that I can't move sub-maximally so I like to attempt full intensity. I've done 1/4 squats and overhead press one day and rack pulls a different day before.

I can't offer a program, but I'll post back this evening on what I've been up too.

Unfortunately I do not have a power rack but I'll check Bud's site for more info and look for Bob Hoffman's book on the internet.

@mikhael Isometrics are awesome and can be implemented in a variety of ways. I have never used them on their own, but rather as auxiliary exercises in an effort to enhance movement quality and performance. Here are a few examples of the isometric and the corresponding movement:

*Push-Up Plank for 10 seconds (Push-Ups)
*McGill Side Plank for 10 seconds (SL Deadlift; 1H Swings)
*Flexed arm hang for 10 seconds (Pull-Ups)
*Standing Adductor Squeeze for 10 seconds (Deadlift)
*Lacrosse Ball Squeeze for 10 seconds (Pull-Ups, Deadlift)
*DBL KB Rack Hold for 20 seconds (Farmer Carry)
*Lat activation with barbell for 10 seconds (Back Squat)
*Wedging into the squat cage for 10 seconds (Military Press)

Thanks a lot for this example. I don't know how McGill Side Plank look like but I very like Dr Hartle Plank. After 10s of this version of Plank I'm more tired then after 3-5s of regular Hard Style Plank.

I've got his Isometric Superset's DVD. It's awesome and the Extreme Power with Isometric DVDs are very high on my wishlist. The piece that I've actually incorporated so far over the past two month is Functional Isometrics in the power rack. Functional Isometrics is essentially heavy partials + Isometric resistance. So for instance in a squat you might set the pins 4" below lockout, then set another set of pins an inch or two before lockout. Then you get under it and press the weight up into the top bars. Your set is done when you've gone too long (it's too light) or you can't keep the weight pressed into the top bars. Bud likes to work between 5 and up to 30 second hold. I believe Hoffman's recommendation was closer to 5 sec. Generally you'd do 3 sets with the isometric bars set at the bottom, middle, and top of the lift. Or some people like to just do them at there sticking point on a lift.

I've been working mostly the top end of the range of motion where you can lift the most. I've been doing mainly Overhead press, 1/4 squat and rackpull(Deadlift). Probably my craziest progress has been in the 1/4 squat. Here we're talking about roughly a 4" lift. 2 months ago I was at 315, This week it did 635lbs for 20 seconds! There is something very pleasant about the combination of huge weight and huge increase in ability. (I assume because I've never worked partials before.).

For these past 2 months I've been working like this:

• Set up the lift with 225 on the bar. If I can't figure out something to push against (It's pretty tough finding a powerrack with two sets of pins!) I just held the lockout instead.
  
• do 5 reps the hold for 30 seconds.
  
• add a pair of 45's or 25's depending on the lift and how high I can go and do another set
• Add more weight and repeat.
  
• When 5 reps don't feel easy, I switch to a single hold.
  
• When my hold gets to 5 or 10 seconds or below I usually move on to something else.

One mistake I made I believe was doing holds in the lockout where most of the weight is held by the bones when I couldn't arrange a top set of pins. While this type of training has it's own merits, it doesn't mimic the functional isometric where you are pushing against an immovable object just before lockout. What I've started doing instead is doing the hold just before lockout as described here(podcast) and here(book) when I can't arrange the isometric for whatever reason.

If you want to get an idea work some of the suggestions in his 30 day isometric challenge. Here are a few to give you an idea:
Over head press
Row
Kettlebell Press
Atlas Stone

@mikhael I hope something in here is helpful to you! I'm excited others are picking up isometrics!

Like I said before I don't have a power rack but I could try to do something with my kettlebells.

@mikhael...
Geoff's post reminded me about another pull-up drill that is sort of isometric in nature. I posted it somewhere else on the site. It's called a 'Frenchie'
1. Pull-up to the top position hold (lock-off) for a count (5) then lower.
2. Pull-up to the top position and lower until upper arms are parallel to the floor and hold for the same count, then lower.
3. Pull-up to the top position and lower until your upper arms are about 45deg and hold for the same count, then lower.
This is one 'rep'. Repeat as necessary. I used a count of 5 as an example. You can vary this.

I know the Frenchie. It's very powerful iso exercise. Currently I'm working on my pull-ups with GTG formula but I think I'll try to add some isometric exercises to my training plan.



Thank You all for Your suggestion and tips.

 

[Mirek]

Get https://www.amazon.de/Iron-Isometrics-Steve-Justa/dp/1312696834 from Steve Justa. Lot of ideas in there.

 

[coachnathanwhite]

Thanks a lot for this example. I don't know how McGill Side Plank look like but I very like Dr Hartle Plank. After 10s of this version of Plank I'm more tired then after 3-5s of regular Hard Style Plank.

Dr. Stuart McGill's side plank will give you increased tension control and connection through the glutes, mid-line and shoulders. A great isometric tool for almost everyone.

 

[pet']

Hello,

I think this thread and its title match well with this book I have just figured out:
Eugen Sandow's "System of Physical Training".
Below is a link with a .pdf version of it:
Sandow's System of Physical Training

When learn among other things that E. Sandow used to train with both very light and very heavy weights.

For the light ones, he used full tension techniques with very high rep set. The idea he had here is to create a muscle / CNS connection. Thus, even while training light, it is possible if required, to lift heavy. He put a great focus on technique and stance and good relaxation between exercises. He also explained that failure must be avoided but we can for some exercise go to "max - 1".

He also talks about diet and general health. He was quite in advance actually.

Hope you will enjoy this "old school" strength book.

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[PaulAtreides]

Michael... I know that you are also on a pull-up journey... Here's an interesting one for you that I heard about years back(very reliable source). Disclaimer: I have never tried it.
You need to rig some kind of solid strap at floor level under your pull-up apparatus. The idea is that you hook your feet under this strap, grab your bar or rings or whatever and do a 'pull-up' against the tension. Obviously you don't do a pull-up but you try like heck. The isometric pull up so to speak.

That sounds interesting, I really want to try that.
- How long would you hold it per set (with the main goal of increasing max strength)? I vaguely remember reading something like 5-10 sec for strength, 20-30sec for hypertrophy/bodybuilding for isometric exercises
- does it need to be a strap (suspension) or could it be any immovable object, like heavy kettlebells or pinching a bench with your feet?
- At what part of the pull-up motion would you aim to be stopped by the strap? Active hang, upper arms 45%, upper arms parallel to the floor?

I assume you'd train it once a week, kind of like an assistance exercise to pull-ups, rather than as a main exercise

 

[offwidth]

That sounds interesting, I really want to try that.
- How long would you hold it per set (with the main goal of increasing max strength)? I vaguely remember reading something like 5-10 sec for strength, 20-30sec for hypertrophy/bodybuilding for isometric exercises
- does it need to be a strap (suspension) or could it be any immovable object, like heavy kettlebells or pinching a bench with your feet?
- At what part of the pull-up motion would you aim to be stopped by the strap? Active hang, upper arms 45%, upper arms parallel to the floor?

I assume you'd train it once a week, kind of like an assistance exercise to pull-ups, rather than as a main exercise

Yes. Any immovable object. But the strap can be adjustable to an extent.
5-10 sec max.
By adjusting either the strap or bar (rings) you can target any position

 

[PaulAtreides]

Yes. Any immovable object. But the strap can be adjustable to an extent.
5-10 sec max.
By adjusting either the strap or bar (rings) you can target any position

Awesome. I'll play around with this concept next time I change up my training plan (probably in a couple of months), as an assistance exercise to target sticking points as they arise.

I wonder if there's a safe way to use this for barbell OHP, like mounting the spotter arms of my rack upside down (pressing against a low ceiling, so to say), a couple of inches before lock-out (which is a big sticking point for me at the moment). I'd best use an empty bar just in case something goes stupidly wrong while figuring things out.

I'm guessing the weight used isn't even that important, since you're supposed to exert maximal force anyways, once you go immovable. Or would there be any benefit to e.g. "merging" weighted pull-ups with this method vs just using bodyweight?

 

[guardian7]

Hey everyone. I would like to incorporate few sessions of isometric into my training and just wondering how to do it? How long single tension should be? 5 maybe 6 seconds? How many sets? Should I split it to upper and lower body and do it in separated days?
Maybe some of You guys have an experience with that and could give me any advice?

I am interested as well and was intrigued to read about "muscle control" in old time strongman physical culture.

Some suggestions.

- Hand from a bar for time. Progress to gripping towels over the bar (Convict Conditioning 2).
- Stomach Vacuum (see Frank Zane).
- Bottoms up KB hold
- One leg plank, One arm plank
- Pushup plank in the hollow position
- Hollow position holds
- Hanging leg raise holds
- Hold the top position of a one leg deadlift.
- Simply raise one leg and hold. A staple of martial arts and gymnastics. Be surprised how difficult and weak the hip flexors can be.

- I think the Hardstyle thinking is you can only REALLY contract for around 6-10 seconds. For example, in the Hardstyle plank you contract HARD for sets of less than 10 seconds. Then do sets of one rep. This seems much better than sloppy 1-2 min planks.

- I also recommend progressions toward an L-sit and a front lever from calisthenics. I am working on the former.
- Pinch barbell plates for grip also.