all posts post new thread

Kettlebell How to guess One Rep Maximum weight?

Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
Kozushi

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
How can I predict what my One Rep Maximum press will be based on the weight I'm using? I'm asking because I don't have every kind of bell here to experiment with to find out, and I'm not sure how critical it is to get the expensive 48kg bell yet.

If I'm doing 5 reps easily with the 24, is my ORM 32 or 40? If I'm doing ladders of presses no problem with the 32, is my ORM 40 or 48?

I'm sure I'll get answers like "it depends on the person" but, in your experiences what was it?
 
Truth is it does depend on the person and I believe their predominant muscle fiber type. I seem to break down in higher reps. When I first pressed a beast I was using my 36 for ladders and was able to get it. Using those one rep max charts would have said I shouldn't have.
 
1. Google

1RM calculator

and try a few. I use the one at exrx.net

In my experience, 5 reps @ 24 kg doesn't get you a single at 32 kg, and it doesn't even get you a single at 28 kg. You'll need 7-10 reps @ 24 kg before you get 32 for a single, maybe even more than that - I was able to press 24 kg for 10 and still couldn't get a 32 kg single without some practice pressing 28 kg.

2. Also Google

1RM formula

and read about how it's calculated.

-S-
 
i also use exrx.net and it seems to be reasonably accurate most of the time.
But as John Grahill said, nothing is set in stone and things might just be different for each individual.
 
For barbell based exercises I used this formula developed by Jim Wendler:

(Weight lifted x reps lifted x .0333) + Weight lifted = Calculated 1RM.​

For kettlebells I don't use this formula. I went with the basics recommended in Simple and Sinister for an average man: 16 KG, 24 KG, 32 KG. The book states an average man needs a 16 KG and 24 KG to start the program and will require a 32 KG as his next purchase (perhaps when he's near being able to start adding 32KG sets into his training).
 
The 1RM calculators always seem a little off for me. My 1RM is higher than is "should" be based on my 5rm, or to put it inversely, my 5RM weight is lower than it "should" be based on my 1RM. What weights do you have? It's not too hard to stack bells for the press. Technically, a stacked press is slightly different due to the different center of mass and grip requirements, but it can give you a good idea. Most gyms don't have a 36K or a 40K, but they probably have a 20K+16K and a 16K+24K.
 
Oh!

Okay. I put my current ability to clean and press the 32kg bell twice into the online calculator and it said my one rep maximum is only 34. That makes a lot of sense since I could not do even part of a C&P movement with my 40kg bell.

Anyhow, I'm ordering the 48kg bell. As this apparently extremely complicated art/science but actually y'all claim is in fact simple art/science is making more and more sense at an accelerating pace, I think it is VERY important to work up to the optimal maximum according to the Strongfirst protocols. The lady looked at me with astonishment when I picked up the 40kg on special order, and it would seem my order of the 48 is being met with even more bewilderment.

Frankly, pressing the 40kg over my head seems like a pipe dream at the moment, but I used to feel that way about the 32kg, and I'm doing it twice in a row now.
 
Last year I was struggling to press my 28kg. In June of this year I bought a 32kg and pressing it out of the box did not happen. I can press it just fine now for alternating cleans and presses. Its easier now than when I first got it and could hardly press it. If someone presented me with a $20 wager to press a 36kg, I would take the be,t but I would not wager $10,000 on it, I have $20 of confidence that I can do it. My next purchase will be 40kg for S&S. I will try to press it but I know I will have to use my other arm to give a some nudging to get it up. If it is just impossible and I have a good holiday sales season I will perhaps buy a 36kg as well.
 
I think it also depends on the exercise too. A lot of these charts are based on bench pressing. Overhead pressing which encompasses a lot of kettlebell training is a different animal when it comes to increases. To put it another way, although overhead pressing is awesome and has absolutely helped me personally, I do find it harder to progress than I did when I was benching a lot more.
 
I wouldn't worry about the 48kg. There's a lot you can do with lighter bells. Just keep adding volume or doing a more difficult version of an exercise like bottom-up versions of everything. Personally, I don't think of KBs as 1RM tools or even to base calculations from like ROP, just start with a volume and increase it over time. KBs are supposed to be more simple than that. I see calculations with weights as the icing on the cake of performance enhancement and best done with an incremental tool like a barbell.
 
Why try to predict you max kettlebell military press? Why not just test your max? Guessing your max is useless.

I have never tried to military press my 48kg bell, but I can press my 44kg for sets of 3R+2L. I probably could press the 48kg for one each side, but I have not. So to say I could is meaningless until I do.
 
Last edited:
IMHO, nothing wrong with ordering a larger bell. Do some 2-hand swings with it, even if they're not very high, learn to clean it and hang onto it in the rack position, and whatever else you can manage to do with it. For me, clean and then clean-and-jerking a weight too heavy to press helped me get used to handling larger weights. The first time I hit my 1/2 bw press, jerking the weight overhead and then lowering it under as much control as I could manage was a regular part of my training. This was called the Yielding Press in the Pavel's original kettlebell book.

NB: Until a few months ago, I hadn't pressed seriously in several years and lost my 1/2 bw press, but I'm on a quest to get it back and am making steady progress. (My SFG-II press, because of my age, is already in the bag - I'm going after the open age group SFG-II mark, which is about 1/2 bw.)

@Bro Mo, I agree with @aciampa here - there is much to be gained from not making small increments in weight. Pavel has discussed it in some of his earlier books but I don't recall enough to cite a reference for you.

-S-
 
Steve Freides said:
IMHO, nothing wrong with ordering a larger bell. Do some 2-hand swings with it, even if they're not very high, learn to clean it and hang onto it in the rack position, and whatever else you can manage to do with it. For me, clean and then clean-and-jerking a weight too heavy to press helped me get used to handling larger weights. The first time I hit my 1/2 bw press, jerking the weight overhead and then lowering it under as much control as I could manage was a regular part of my training. This was called the Yielding Press in the Pavel's original kettlebell book.

NB: Until a few months ago, I hadn't pressed seriously in several years and lost my 1/2 bw press, but I'm on a quest to get it back and am making steady progress. (My SFG-II press, because of my age, is already in the bag - I'm going after the open age group SFG-II mark, which is about 1/2 bw.)

@Bro Mo, I agree with @aciampa here - there is much to be gained from not making small increments in weight. Pavel has discussed it in some of his earlier books but I don't recall enough to cite a reference for you.

-S-
Click to expand...
Thank you. Because of the advice I'm getting on these forums I'm progressing a lot faster and safer than otherwise. Few people out there know how to really lift weights. About 99% are hacks. I'm still a hack but I do think I'm getting somewhere, and getting there quickly. To me as yet, weightlifting is as complicated as judo or mixed martial arts. There are a lot of peple out there who are either fat or weak or BOTH who claim to be "experts" at bodybuilding/weightlifting/fitness. The proof is in the pudding. In martial arts, if you can't fight you show your true colours right away. Fat and/or weak people writing fitness books / making fitnes videos is about as hypocritical as claiming to be a martial arts expert but not being able to fight.

Strongfirst has everything nailed spot on: how to train without tonnes of stuff; how to train when away from your stuff; how to train without wasting time...
 
aciampa said:
Why are you ordering the 48, if you cant move the 40 yet?



Have you pressed the 48? The 56?
Click to expand...

I can two hand swing the 40 for 10X10 and I'm close to doing the TGU with it. The 48 is the end goal of both ROP and S&S. I like to have my end goal staring me in the face.
 
@aciampa @Steve Freides
Nope haven't pressed either one. I agree with larger weight jumps, that's what makes KBs great; one does not get to move up until they've become sufficiently intimate with the one below. My point around the 1RM statement is that it is likely between bells, so why not simply work more volume with the lower one(s) until worrying about the heavier one.
 
Hmmm... It would almost seem that getting to the point of doing S&S with the 48 is a kind of "absolute maximum" rather than a goal many people reach...

I don't know if that should be a goal for me or not - again this stuff is NOT simple! At least not to me, who am dumb I guess. The 32 sure as heck is keeping me in terrifically good form.
 
Bro Mo said:
@aciampa @Steve Freides
Nope haven't pressed either one. I agree with larger weight jumps, that's what makes KBs great; one does not get to move up until they've become sufficiently intimate with the one below. My point around the 1RM statement is that it is likely between bells, so why not simply work more volume with the lower one(s) until worrying about the heavier one.
Click to expand...
I agree with what you've said, save one point - there's no reason to choose here, and a little work with a heavier weight can ease the transition while you are still mainly focused on increasing volume with a more moderate load.

-S-
 
Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
Back
Top Bottom