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Kettlebell 1 vs 2hand swings in S&S

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Kozushi

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Some have insisted that after attaining proficiency doing S&S with the 32kg that when you move up in weight to the 40 and then 48 it is necessary that you only progress using 1 handed swings.

I don't remember reading this in the "Kettlebell: Simple and Sinister" book.

I do remember reading that S&S uses both double and single handed swings, and that you mix them up when moving up in weight.

I started at 16kg less than a year ago and now I'm at 40kg.

When I have more time and energy I do all the swings single handedly, but on weak days or when I'm in a rush I mix in 2handed ones.

What do y'all think?
 
S&S says, "
"A couple of months down the road when your one- arm swing is solid, it will be the only version you will be using.

Tsatsouline, Pavel. Kettlebell - Simple & Sinister (Kindle Locations 892-893). . Kindle Edition.

For S&S, if you are too tired to use a 40 kg, then do 1H Swings with a 32 kg. That would be my suggestion, at least. If you look at the training logs of people such as @Pavel Macek, you see that he will lessen the load if he feels it is necessary, but he doesn't change the exercise from 1H to 2H.
 
Not an authority myself, but the book does endorse two handed swings for "off" days.

From S&S, the chapter titled "The Goals and How to Reach Them":

"Even though this program is very conservative, life happens and there will be days when your body will tell you to take it easy...The perfect swing weight for an unloading workout is 30% of your bodyweight, which is the sweet spot for power production...Use the two-arm version and employ overspeed eccentrics, the shadow swing."
 
My own thinking has been predicated on the big difference in weight between 32 and 40kg. Of course, doing 2h swings with the 40 is arm-wise like doing singles with the 20(!gasp!horrors!too light!), lower-body wise, it is the same or even perhaps better than doing them single handedly as you can put more force into the swings.

A big benefit of the swing is lower body development, so I'm not sure I'm losing a lot by switching from 2h to 1h swings for some of the sets.

I'd still like to know what the proper "by the book" approach is. I really thought it was to mix the two together until you don't ever need to anymore. I'm almost at that point or maybe actually am at that point without realizing it.
 
Hello,

On the long run, I far prefer 1H swings because the are more challenging, work anti-twist. If I want to, I can put as much power as I have. I firmly believe that 1H swings get the best of the 2H + add some very interesting game-changing specificities of 1H.

However I admit that whatever the weight you currently use and you then plan to use, 2H can make a smooth transition to avoid injury. Finally, I guess it depends on how you feel : a 2H can reduce the difficulty between 2 steps.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
I'd still like to know what the proper "by the book" approach is. I really thought it was to mix the two together until you don't ever need to anymore. I'm almost at that point or maybe actually am at that point without realizing it.
@Swann 1 already gave that answer:
S&S says, "
"A couple of months down the road when your one- arm swing is solid, it will be the only version you will be using.

Tsatsouline, Pavel. Kettlebell - Simple & Sinister (Kindle Locations 892-893). . Kindle Edition.

The only time yo use 2H-Swings is on light days (this are shadow swings. Sure they are 2-handed, but still a different animal than your usual 2H-swings) and for the non-stop swing test (which is only introduced after working with the 32):

"The perfect swing weight for an unloading workout is 30% of your bodyweight, which is the sweet spot for power production, (...) Use the two-arm version and employ overspeed eccentrics, the shadow swing."
- S&S, Kindle Location 1416 (Chapter: The goals and how to reach them)

"Every two weeks take a kettlebell one or more sizes lighter than the one you are currently swinging. Pick a swing variation - two-arm, one-arm, hand-to-hand, mixed - and enjoy the pain.
Do not introduce non-stop swings into your training until your normal training weight is 24Kg if you are a woman, or 32Kg if you are a man."
- S&S, Kindle Location 1481 (Chapter: Die but do)

Both things are mentioned a second time in the final chapter Simple & Sinister Summarized (Kindle Location 1547-1577) in points 7. and 10.

Even though you personally may use 2HS as progession tactic to go up in weight, they're not mentioned in the given progession examples in the book.
See pictures/charts in S&S, Kindle Locations 1429 & 1442 (Chapter: The goals and how to reach them)


Honestly I don't want to offend anyone, but lately there are a lot of questions about S&S that are simply answered by just reading/re-reading the book.
Finding the things in the book and writing this reply took me 20min, so it's not too much to ask to find the answer yourself and only ask if you still couldn't find it. (You in this context means everyone)

EDIT: BTW there's nothing wrong with 2HSs or them beeing the only swing you use in your S&S practice. It's just not S&S anymore or as Rippetoe would say: "You are not doing the program"
 
Honestly I don't want to offend anyone, but lately there are a lot of questions about S&S that are simply answered by just reading/re-reading the book.
Finding the things in the book and writing this reply took me 20min, so it's not too much to ask to find the answer yourself and only ask if you still couldn't find it. (You in this context means everyone)

Agreed, but I believe that this is a good thing. Some of this forum has evolved to act as confirmation of the flagship programs we use. For each of the posts asking questions that are "answered in the book", there are likely several folks who read and execute with little problem. It's a good thing that folks ask; even if it is repeated. Its also a great thing that folks like you take the time to answer their questions.
 
Agreed, but I believe that this is a good thing. Some of this forum has evolved to act as confirmation of the flagship programs we use. For each of the posts asking questions that are "answered in the book", there are likely several folks who read and execute with little problem. It's a good thing that folks ask; even if it is repeated. Its also a great thing that folks like you take the time to answer their questions.
Also, it's nice to have things verified by others. I don't always trust myself to remember every single word of what I read.
 
I was actually posting on the Reddit sub a few weeks ago about things in the book people missed and things like this, the problem is the book may give you conflicting information dozens of pages apart.

There's a part near the beginning that explains why s&s uses both swing variations. So of course you read that, find it peculiar, and make a post. As you await the intelligent discourse on the forum you read further I'm the book, THEN get to the part about transitioning to single hand swings only.

Suddenly, your well intentioned and insightful discovery post becomes static noise on the forum. It's a tough experience.
 
Don't forget there is also "wrestling a kettlebell"; 100 non stop two hand swings from S & S . I know of only one man so far that has done this with the 48 kg - Levi Markwardt. If anyone else has done it that I haven't heard about I would love to know :)
 
@Kozushi - I don't want to overstep my bounds, but it seems that you've been struggling with this transition for some time. Maybe that's the real question..."How do I get to 40kg 1HS?" I realize that I am just at the 32kg level, but maybe you should consider investing in a 36 kg bell (half step horrors?!?!!?)
 
@Kozushi - I don't want to overstep my bounds, but it seems that you've been struggling with this transition for some time. Maybe that's the real question..."How do I get to 40kg 1HS?" I realize that I am just at the 32kg level, but maybe you should consider investing in a 36 kg bell (half step horrors?!?!!?)
You aren't overstepping. This question has been rephrased, asked, and answered repeatedly.
 
Hello,

I think that some people can religiously follow all he guidelines and it works very well for them. However, as it was already underline, what works for some does not necessarily for others. It can have several ways to get strong.

For instance, and it is my own experience so I only talk for me : I am not able to do the 8kg jump. Yes, maybe it means I clearly lack of strength, even if Pavel advocates big jumps. However, it did not prevent me to reach Simple and keep progressing with swing (now @40). IMO, half steps are not a shame, far from it.

The great advantages of "principles" is that you can manage them to make them match your constraints and goals.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
I do think that the stated goals in S&S are 1HS with the primary bell, but I wonder if the path to getting there might become more difficult as the girevik gets closer to his limits. For those who have the experience of exceeding simple, let me know, but it seems that the programming of S & S may need to get complicated to get to "Solid" or "Sinister". In reviewing people's training logs, I have noticed that people start to "wave the load" more after meeting the Simple goal. I think that going for goals past Simple may require more complex programming (e.g. half step bells, waving the load, etc). Using the 2HS may be one such intermediate step, but others might also be required. Is my thinking on this reasonable?

Pavel suggests this much in this blog post
From Simple to Sinister: Waving Volume on S&S
 
Hello,

@jhpowers
I think it depends on the trainee. Some will progress on a linear way, going from light to heavy without getting back to "wave" the load.

Some others might need to wave more or less early in the program.

Globally, I think the progression of the human body strength is not linear. To a certain extent, you can progress fast and without waving if you start from scratch. However, the stronger you become, the harder it is to become even stronger. The relative effort is less and less favorable.

What works for somebody does not necessarily work for everybody.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
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