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Kettlebell Fabio Zonin, Master SFG on Strict Kettlebell Press, Honour, and Integrity

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maybe i do not understand it right, but why is it exactly cheating if you find a personal way to bring the weight up? and what does it have to do with cowardice? if you have to grind, you grind. if you have to use the whole body, use the whole body.
whats more important? being able to bring the weight up? or to look good, while bringing it up?

Imagine this: You are in a situation where you have to lift a person overhead to maybe save someone.
f.e. from a sinking boat up to rescue rope or helicopter, or something similar.
would you care how you look, while you try rescue a human being?
 
maybe i do not understand it right, but why is it exactly cheating if you find a personal way to bring the weight up? and what does it have to do with cowardice? if you have to grind, you grind. if you have to use the whole body, use the whole body.
whats more important? being able to bring the weight up? or to look good, while bringing it up?
@Sergej, you do not understand. If your shoulder comes up in a military press, you are finished. If you manage to put the weight overhead, you won't do it by military pressing it and, instead, you'll end up performing some sort of bent or side press or, more likely, some risky piece of business that may bear passing resemblance to a bent or side press but is in actuality neither. There is technique to lifting; there is a right way to use the whole body.

What is important is to do what you set out to do, and if that's military press, then either do that or stop doing that but don't try to convert, mid-stream, your military press into another movement.

Imagine this: You are in a situation where you have to lift a person overhead to maybe save someone.
f.e. from a sinking boat up to rescue rope or helicopter, or something similar.
would you care how you look, while you try rescue a human being?
This is not a valid comparison - if you are saving someone's life, do what you need, of course. But putting a kettlebell overhead by means of the military press is not that.

The same goes for many other, similar situations in lifting, e.g., hitching a deadlift. If you hitch, you're no longer doing a deadlift. Yes, you are bringing the weight up but by different means. A chosen strength movement is chosen; if you wish to practice only those strength movements that allow you to move the most weight overhead, then just bent press (or jerk - whatever works for you) and don't military press.

-S-
 
Lol! I don't know, I think a lot of that warrior/coward stuff is a bit much. A warrior does what he needs to do to win. No one calls a special ops team a bunch of cowards for raiding an enemy stronghold at 4am when they know the bad guys will be most vulnerable. There's a reason we don't fight "honorably" via Napoleonic fashion anymore...
 
@MicahK, do not take what was said out of context. We're making an analogy to warfare about a strength training movement - no one has suggested mistaking one for the other.

-S-
 
I agree, If you are able to look past the way the message was presented, if you don't agree with it, and listen to the technique cues you will have a stronger strict military press.

Which is what is being discussed here, not a literal life or death situation, but the message remains, when the press gets tough, don't run away from it, push into it, fight it, grind on it and if you are going to fail, do so with integrity, don't cheat the bell up, that isn't performing a strict military press.

Thanks for sharing @Pavel Macek
 
I like the idea of having enough respect for a lift or technique that it's better to step back than to get there by any means necessary.

I'd draw an analogy to a martial arts - in the end, one's goal might be to have the ability to throw an overwhelming number of perfect strikes. Which path do you take to get there - learn to throw a single, perfect strike, and gradually increase the volume? Or learn to throw continuous sloppy strikes, and gradually improve the technique? And if you took a pair of physically-equal guys (or gals) who trained on the opposite paths, and put them in a ring... who would you bet on? I give perfect striker better odds to land the blow that ends the fight.

I'm sure everyone here loves pushing themselves, and in competition, we do what we need to do. But I do think it takes a level of courage to trust in your training path, and accept when you might not be ready to move to the next step.
 
Lol! I don't know, I think a lot of that warrior/coward stuff is a bit much. A warrior does what he needs to do to win. No one calls a special ops team a bunch of cowards for raiding an enemy stronghold at 4am when they know the bad guys will be most vulnerable. There's a reason we don't fight "honorably" via Napoleonic fashion anymore...

"A bit much...". Nicely understated.
 


On Friday's Beast Tamer Challenge, one gentleman from Poland failed to press a 48 kg. On Saturday, after Fabio's military press teaching block, he pressed 48 kg both on his strong and stronger hand.

Thanks for posting, a great discussion in the video.

I'm constantly amazed at the talented individuals that StrongFirst attracts. Here are two instructors, for whom I presume English is not a first language, teaching and translating in it as the professionals that they are, to the StrongFirst standard. Simply outstanding.
 
Lol! I don't know, I think a lot of that warrior/coward stuff is a bit much. ... There's a reason we don't fight "honorably" via Napoleonic fashion anymore...
Point already raised and responded to above. Fabio is an elite level athlete and a teacher of strength for several decades. Choose to find fault with his advice at the expense of your own strength.

-S-
 
I like the idea of having enough respect for a lift or technique that it's better to step back than to get there by any means necessary.

I'd draw an analogy to a martial arts - in the end, one's goal might be to have the ability to throw an overwhelming number of perfect strikes. Which path do you take to get there - learn to throw a single, perfect strike, and gradually increase the volume? Or learn to throw continuous sloppy strikes, and gradually improve the technique? And if you took a pair of physically-equal guys (or gals) who trained on the opposite paths, and put them in a ring... who would you bet on? I give perfect striker better odds to land the blow that ends the fight.

I'm sure everyone here loves pushing themselves, and in competition, we do what we need to do. But I do think it takes a level of courage to trust in your training path, and accept when you might not be ready to move to the next step.

It also takes a level of integrity to know when you are putting yourself at risk rather than keeping integrity of technique..

love your insight
 
I'm constantly amazed at the talented individuals that StrongFirst attracts. Here are two instructors, for whom I presume English is not a first language, teaching and translating in it as the professionals that they are, to the StrongFirst standard. Simply outstanding.
@JonS, it is all that and more. The character and integrity of the people StrongFirst attracts has impressed me more than their talent, skill, and professionalism.

One of the reasons to attend a cert or event is to experience and interact with these people in person.

It is a high honor for me to be a part of StrongFirst.

-S-
 
I know it's been said but we have an Italian (I think, pardon me if not) speaking English being translated back into Czech (I presume!). Using universally known analogies..... That's high level communication and teaching. And not just teaching any old thing. some subtle and nuanced details of strength training. Fabio could have spoken Italian and Pavel could have translated directly into Czech and the warrior/coward analogy would have been totally lost on most forum members. I like analogies, even better in my own language you big sissies. Thank you.
 
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Both Fabio's and Pavel's English are very good. Fabio has impressed me as someone who is capable of thinking in English at this point, or very nearly so. @Pavel Macek's English is good enough that he has translated Simple and Sinister into Czech, and I believe at least one other StrongFirst publication as well. Two very capable gentlemen, and in many ways besides their command of English, of course!

-S-
 
The intelligence in the SF community constantly impresses me. Even when explanations dabble in similar themes, there’s no macho egotistical garbage about being tough and manly and showing off how alpha you are. It’s all grounded and realistic. None of this strength stuff matters in the end. It’s simply a way to explore being human and the connections we all share. A very satisfying way to do so admittedly :)
 
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