Nutrition 100% Carnivore

[maurice197]

So...

I'm not a scientist, nutritionist, doctor, or anything else that anyone should listen to. But, I have been a carnivore for 9 months. In that time, everything in my life has improved...EVERYTHING!

Some quick background...I was an active and fat kid my whole life. At 13 years old, I was 5'2" and 260 lbs (probably 65% body fat). I played competitive tennis throughout my childhood and then in high school excelled at football, wrestling and tennis. My diet improved in high school and I leaned out quite a bit to a muscular 200 lbs (at 5'8" tall). By improving, I mean that I cut out all the stuff that everyone agrees is junk food (cookies, candy, etc). I then wrestled in college and basically developed an eating disorder in order to make wieght. In the summers I would be 235lbs and I wrestled at 197lbs during the season.

Here is my story. Sorry for the length, but the short version is I was sick and in a lot of pain...now I eat only meat and I feel great and am much healthier than I was.

Long version:
Until I was in my early 30's, I was chronically sick with sinus infections...had 3 sinus surgeries before I was a teenager, was on antibiotics at least 2 -3 times every year and was put on a 2-year long superscription of low level antibiotics. I had terrible allergies this whole time and took allergy medicine every day, which wasn't always enough to let me breath through my nose.

I played with Primal style diets and with ketogenic diets for a few years and saw improvements in my allergies, which was nice. However, I was still in pain most of the time (due to old injuries), had lousy digestion (several BM's per day that were not as solid as I would have liked them to be), I had terrible cravings (I would have knocked over a grandma if I was hungry), and was chronically stressed out.

Then in December of 2017, I gave up all foods except animal sourced ones (I eat 90% beef, but also eat some cheese, fish/seafood, chicken and pork). I almost never eat organ meat. I also drink coffee and will occasionally put a dash of heavy cream in it, but 90% of my beverages are water).

It took about a week before I had my usually energy again and my aches and pains significantly reduced (for example, I had a very sore knee after hyper extending it 9 months prior to starting this way of eating...then in a week, that soreness was 90% better and I could run and kneel on it with no issues).

It took about a month before my digestion normalized and about 2-3 months before my cravings for junk food went away and my mood stabilized. I deal with stress so much more gracefully now. My wife says she's never seen me happier or healthier. My skin is better (smoother), cuts/injuries heal faster, I haven't taken an antibiotic yet this year (even though I've gotten a couple of colds). In the past, I never had a cold that came and went, they always turned into sinus infections.

I train 3 x week at a strong first facility and am active with my son/dog on the other days. I still carry too much body fat, but that's improving steadily and this is the first time I've gotten down to my current weight without feeling like I was depriving myself of something. My blood pressure and heart rate are fantastic. I had a coronary calcium score done last month and my heart looks absolutely perfect (zero calcium deposits).

I know that this is not a double blind placebo study done in a metabolic ward, and I'm not ruling out that down the road I may need to do something different. But as I see it, this is having amazing benefits for me and I'm going to keep it up until I need to.

 

[Snowman]

I'm not ruling out that down the road I may need to do something different. But as I see it, this is having amazing benefits for me and I'm going to keep it up until I need to.

Bam. Love it.
Always awesome to hear about people getting their hands on a better version of life, regardless of how it happens.

 

[Steve Freides]

I'm not a scientist, nutritionist, doctor, or anything else that anyone should listen to. But, I have been a carnivore for 9 months. In that time, everything in my life has improved...EVERYTHING!

There is a Buddhist saying that the only constant is change. I certainly don't eat the way I did when I was younger, nor I am eating for the last few days the way I was eating for the previous couple of months. Life changes, and how you eat (and do lots of other things, too) changes.

My "happy place" is when my exercise doesn't exhaust me but refreshes me, and when my diet makes me satisfied while keeping me healthy. E.g., I just spent a couple of months doing some exhausting exercise, was tired a lot, and eat everything in sight. I did this on purpose to put a little muscle on my frame, and in particular to strength my sometimes dicey shoulders, which felt like they need reinforcement. So I did that for 2 months, and now both diet and exercise have changed back to what is more usual for me, and I'm happier - but I made a choice to make a change for a few months to accomplish a particular goal.

-S-

 

[Ryan T]

I think it's crazy that this thread is still going! @Snowman I haven't looked back through this thread in a while, but I think your lipid profile got a little whacky. Did it ever improve or normalize? I was interested in the carnivore diet a while back, but seemed unsustainable with my family. Tried it for a week and missed the variety of foods.

 

[Ryan T]

So...

I'm not a scientist, nutritionist, doctor, or anything else that anyone should listen to. But, I have been a carnivore for 9 months. In that time, everything in my life has improved...EVERYTHING!

Some quick background...I was an active and fat kid my whole life. At 13 years old, I was 5'2" and 260 lbs (probably 65% body fat). I played competitive tennis throughout my childhood and then in high school excelled at football, wrestling and tennis. My diet improved in high school and I leaned out quite a bit to a muscular 200 lbs (at 5'8" tall). By improving, I mean that I cut out all the stuff that everyone agrees is junk food (cookies, candy, etc). I then wrestled in college and basically developed an eating disorder in order to make wieght. In the summers I would be 235lbs and I wrestled at 197lbs during the season.

Here is my story. Sorry for the length, but the short version is I was sick and in a lot of pain...now I eat only meat and I feel great and am much healthier than I was.

Long version:
Until I was in my early 30's, I was chronically sick with sinus infections...had 3 sinus surgeries before I was a teenager, was on antibiotics at least 2 -3 times every year and was put on a 2-year long superscription of low level antibiotics. I had terrible allergies this whole time and took allergy medicine every day, which wasn't always enough to let me breath through my nose.

I played with Primal style diets and with ketogenic diets for a few years and saw improvements in my allergies, which was nice. However, I was still in pain most of the time (due to old injuries), had lousy digestion (several BM's per day that were not as solid as I would have liked them to be), I had terrible cravings (I would have knocked over a grandma if I was hungry), and was chronically stressed out.

Then in December of 2017, I gave up all foods except animal sourced ones (I eat 90% beef, but also eat some cheese, fish/seafood, chicken and pork). I almost never eat organ meat. I also drink coffee and will occasionally put a dash of heavy cream in it, but 90% of my beverages are water).

It took about a week before I had my usually energy again and my aches and pains significantly reduced (for example, I had a very sore knee after hyper extending it 9 months prior to starting this way of eating...then in a week, that soreness was 90% better and I could run and kneel on it with no issues).

It took about a month before my digestion normalized and about 2-3 months before my cravings for junk food went away and my mood stabilized. I deal with stress so much more gracefully now. My wife says she's never seen me happier or healthier. My skin is better (smoother), cuts/injuries heal faster, I haven't taken an antibiotic yet this year (even though I've gotten a couple of colds). In the past, I never had a cold that came and went, they always turned into sinus infections.

I train 3 x week at a strong first facility and am active with my son/dog on the other days. I still carry too much body fat, but that's improving steadily and this is the first time I've gotten down to my current weight without feeling like I was depriving myself of something. My blood pressure and heart rate are fantastic. I had a coronary calcium score done last month and my heart looks absolutely perfect (zero calcium deposits).

I know that this is not a double blind placebo study done in a metabolic ward, and I'm not ruling out that down the road I may need to do something different. But as I see it, this is having amazing benefits for me and I'm going to keep it up until I need to.

I've heard concerns about Vitamin C deficiencies, lack of fiber etc... You haven't experienced any issues with that? Also do you ever eat veg or fruit? If so, any observations from there?

 

[maurice197]

@Ryan T
The vitamin C deficiency is a common concern, but it seems to be unfounded. As I understand it, a) meat actually does have vitamin C (and not just liver), but that was ignored in much of the research and b) vitamin C is needed in much smaller doses on this way of eating b/c the chemistry involved with metabolizing protein and fat is very different than metabolizing carbohydrates.

Also, I don't touch any fruits of vegetables. I do occasionally use garlic, rosemary or onion powder to season meat. But that's it.

My hunch is that given the state of nutrition research, we think we need more vitamins and such because their is a correlation between higher amounts of them and health due to selection bias. In otherwords, people who are not eating McDonalds are choosing to eat more fruit and veg. So these people get more vitamins and are also healthier. However, their extra health might be more related to the lack of junk instead of the addition of vitamins.

Just my 2 cents, though.

 

[Snowman]

I think your lipid profile got a little whacky.

Yeah, my LDL jumped up pretty significantly, while everything else got better. I still haven't decided how indicative that is of anything, good or bad. There seems to be two takes on it. One group says high LDL is bad, period (current treatment guidelines are based on this). The other says that high LDL can be bad, or a non-issue, based on other factors like inflammation and insulin sensitivity. There's decent research on both sides. I'm not really convinced one way or another, but I'm getting more lab work done in a couple weeks. I'll try to remember to tag you if I post it

Tried it for a week and missed the variety of foods.

I think this is pretty common. It took me about two weeks for the cravings for other stuff to subside. It can be tricky if you're the only one in the house doing it, so you have to be tempted the whole time while you're adapting. Luckily for me, my wife would rather eat whatever I cook than cook herself .

 

[Bret S.]

@Snowman
Are you familiar with this..
http://www.ourhealthcoop.com/coop_corner_features_unified_theory.pdf

Edit: If the link doesn't work you can go to the site, search Mike Ciell unified theory

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

Yeah, my LDL jumped up pretty significantly, while everything else got better.

This post is for those who are unfamiliar with how to read LDL.

Initial Elevated LDL

What I found (research and anecdotal evidences) when I began the Ketogenic Diet was that my LDL and Total Cholesterol jumped up. I suspect that same most likely occurs with the Carnivore Diet.

That due to the increase in...

Saturated Fat

Saturated Fat (as you know) increases your LDL. Your Total Cholesterol reading is composed of LDL, HDL and Triglycerides. Thus, an elevation in LDL is going to increase Total Cholesterol, as well.

The irony is that Saturated Fat also increases your HDL Level; something no one tells you.

Adjusting %o The Ketogenic Diet's Higher Saturated Fat Intake

Based on my research and personal results, what I noted is that when converting to a dramatically Higher Saturated Fat intake, there is an initial (meaning short term) spike in LDL and Total Cholesterol.

Initially my LDL jumped up from 110 to 170. My Total Cholesterol jumped from 200 to 230.

Those number initially freaked me out. However, I stayed the course rather that give in to my panic.

My LDL is now 110 and my Total Cholesterol is 203.

My Triglycerides are between 51 to 55; dropping from 110. The LDL recommendation for most is that they be under 150; lower is even better.

The Take Home Message

1) Initially, converting from a Traditional Western Diet/High Carbohydrate Diet to a High Saturated Fat Diet (Ketogenic or Carnovire Diet) will increase your LDL and Total Cholesterol. Don't panic!

2) Most individual who stay the course of a Ketogenic or Carnivore (Higher Saturated Fat Intake) will experience a drop in LDL and Total Cholesterol.

With that said, both LDL and Total Cholesterol will most likely be above the Normal Recommended
Range when when on a Higher Saturated Fat Diet.

However, one of the prime factor governing your cardiovascular health is the composition of your LDL.

Determining IF Your LDL is Bad Or Good

The general consensus, even amount physicians, is elevated LDL as bad. That is a simplistic method that is incorrect.

Elevated LDL above the what is the "Normal Range" isn't necessarily bad.

The determine factor of IF High LDL or even Below Normal LDL is bad is...

Particle Size LDL

LDL contain two type of Particle Size. The percentage of Particle Size determines if you LDL places you at risk.

1) Particle A LDL: This is Good LDL. If you have an elevated an LDL level but the percentage of Particle A is the highest, you have no health issue.

2) Particle B LDL: This is the Bad LDL. If you have an elevated, normal or below normal LDL but your percentage of Particle B is high, you have a health issue.

Testing For LDL Particle Size

There is a test that will determine which you have more of, Particle A or B. Physician can order it but they rarely do and the majority never educate you on it.

However, there is another method that will provide some good feed back on which Particle Size you have.

Triglycerides and HDL

1) Low Triglycerides,High HDL: This indicates you have a greater percentage of Particle A (Good) LDL

2) High Triglyderides, Low HDL: This indicated you have a greater percentage of Particle B (Bad) LDL.

As Dr Robert Lustig noted, High Triglycerides and Low HDL means that "You're a heart attack waiting to happen."

Cholesterol HDL/LDL/Triglycerides Ratios Calculator

Your Triglyceride:HDL Ratio is one of the best indicators of your cardiovascular health.

Click on the link above for the calculator and find out more.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[Ryan T]

This post is for those who are unfamiliar with how to read LDL.

Initial Elevated LDL

What I found (research and anecdotal evidences) when I began the Ketogenic Diet was that my LDL and Total Cholesterol jumped up. I suspect that same most likely occurs with the Carnivore Diet.

That due to the increase in...

Saturated Fat

Saturated Fat (as you know) increases your LDL. Your Total Cholesterol reading is composed of LDL, HDL and Triglycerides. Thus, an elevation in LDL is going to increase Total Cholesterol, as well.

The irony is that Saturated Fat also increases your HDL Level; something no one tells you.

Adjusting %o The Ketogenic Diet's Higher Saturated Fat Intake

Based on my research and personal results, what I noted is that when converting to a dramatically Higher Saturated Fat intake, there is an initial (meaning short term) spike in LDL and Total Cholesterol.

Initially my LDL jumped up from 110 to 170. My Total Cholesterol jumped from 200 to 230.

Those number initially freaked me out. However, I stayed the course rather that give in to my panic.

My LDL is now 110 and my Total Cholesterol is 203.

My Triglycerides are between 51 to 55; dropping from 110. The LDL recommendation for most is that they be under 150; lower is even better.

The Take Home Message

1) Initially, converting from a Traditional Western Diet/High Carbohydrate Diet to a High Saturated Fat Diet (Ketogenic or Carnovire Diet) will increase your LDL and Total Cholesterol. Don't panic!

2) Most individual who stay the course of a Ketogenic or Carnivore (Higher Saturated Fat Intake) will experience a drop in LDL and Total Cholesterol.

With that said, both LDL and Total Cholesterol will most likely be above the Normal Recommended
Range when when on a Higher Saturated Fat Diet.

However, one of the prime factor governing your cardiovascular health is the composition of your LDL.

Determining IF Your LDL is Bad Or Good

The general consensus, even amount physicians, is elevated LDL as bad. That is a simplistic method that is incorrect.

Elevated LDL above the what is the "Normal Range" isn't necessarily bad.

The determine factor of IF High LDL or even Below Normal LDL is bad is...

Particle Size LDL

LDL contain two type of Particle Size. The percentage of Particle Size determines if you LDL places you at risk.

1) Particle A LDL: This is Good LDL. If you have an elevated an LDL level but the percentage of Particle A is the highest, you have no health issue.

2) Particle B LDL: This is the Bad LDL. If you have an elevated, normal or below normal LDL but your percentage of Particle B is high, you have a health issue.

Testing For LDL Particle Size

There is a test that will determine which you have more of, Particle A or B. Physician can order it but they rarely do and the majority never educate you on it.

However, there is another method that will provide some good feed back on which Particle Size you have.

Triglycerides and HDL

1) Low Triglycerides,High HDL: This indicates you have a greater percentage of Particle A (Good) LDL

2) High Triglyderides, Low HDL: This indicated you have a greater percentage of Particle B (Bad) LDL.

As Dr Robert Lustig noted, High Triglycerides and Low HDL means that "You're a heart attack waiting to happen."

Cholesterol HDL/LDL/Triglycerides Ratios Calculator

Your Triglyceride:HDL Ratio is one of the best indicators of your cardiovascular health.

Click on the link above for the calculator and find out more.

Kenny Croxdale

Thanks for the education @kennycro@@aol.com. What do you think about a diet comprised solely of animal products?

See folks have me interested in doing research on this again. Here's an interesting article.
optimising Dr Shawn Baker’s carnivore diet from first principles

Perhaps the challenge with all research relating to nutrition and the human is there are so many variables that it's hard to apply. Certain tests or results my be indicative of current or impending pathology but across the entire concert of attributes that make up a healthy organism, the requirements change. Just a thought.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

What do you think about a diet comprised solely of animal products?

Carnivore Diet?

By "A diet comprised solely of animal products", do you mean the Carnivore Diet?

The Carnivore Diet is interesting. However, since I am on the Ketogenic Diet, I'm on the outside looking in.

Snowman has more practical experience and knowledge on it.

First, let look at what drives my focus on...

The Ketogenic Diet

As I have stated in previous post, I was diagnosed with a chronic Metabolic Condition over two years ago. Based on research and empirical data, the Ketogenic Diet along with Intermittent Fasting may help.

Glucose appears to be a factor that may exacerbate my issue. Thus, my objective is to minimize my body glucose levels and increase my ketone levels.

Ketosis require that your macros percentages are 5% (No more than a definitive 50 gram), 65% plus Fat, no more than 25% Protein.

If your protein intake is too high, it kicks you out of ketosis; gluconeogeneis occurs. That means protein is converted into glucose.

When your protein intake is too high that means you are not on a Ketogenic Diet, you are on a High Protein, High Fat, Low Carbohydrate Diet.

This lead us to...

The Carnivore Diet

In most cases, due to the higher protein intake and lower fat intake, the majority of individuals on on this diet are never in ketosis.

Even though I knew that, that fact got past me in...

Dr Shawn Baker's Interview with Joe Rogan

In listened to one of Shawn Baker's podcast, he commented that he had performed well in a Rowing Competition, a Glycolytic Energy System Sport.

Glycolytic Energy System Athlete's don't appear to do well on a Ketogenic Diet. They inefficient at using what glucose they have available and have lower glucose levels.

That "Geeky Snowman"

Since Snowman has practical experience and book smart on the Carnivore Diet, I had an email conversation with him on it.

As he pointed out, Baker's ability to perform well in a Glycolytic "Rowing" Energy System event was due to the fact that protein was converted over to glucose (gluconeogenesis).

Thus, this take me back to my focus on minimizing glucose and increasing ketones; which it doesn't appear would work for me on the Carnivore Diet.

Ketogenic Diet and Carbohydrates

While the Ketogenic Diet restrict carbohydrate intake to 50 gram, that at least allow me to have broccoli in butter with cheese or dipped in Ranch Dressing, mashed cauliflower "potatoes", celery dipped in sour cream, green been cooked in butter, bell peppers, etc. So, I don't feel deprived.

Even though the amount of carbohydrate intake is low on the Ketogenic Diet, it appears that it may help with gut health.

"What The Best Piece of Fitness Equipment?"

I use to work in Retail Fitness Equipment Sales.

This was one of the most frequent question that I got.

I work now work in Commercial Fitness Equipment Sales and rarely get that question.

My response was/is to the question was, "It a matter of which is the best piece of fitness equipment for You!"

A Major Factor For Success

As most on this site have stated, one of the most important keys for diet is finding something that you like and can live with.

If you don't like something, it's not going to last.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[Snowman]

Are you familiar with this..

I haven't heard the vitamin C vs. Lp(a) take on collagen repair, but it does sound plausible.
One thing I tend to hear from the "it depends" camp is that the triglyceride:HDL ratio, LDL particle size, and measures of inflammation are more indicative than LDL. All else being equal, a lower LDL is better but the idea is that it's very difficult to build plaque if the body is in good shape over-all. To their credit, there's not really any data that shows that LDL is a predictor in otherwise healthy people. It's always high LDL (small particle size), coupled with some combination of high inflammatory markers, low HDL, and high trigs.
My conundrum is that my trig:HDL ratio was the best it had ever been when I had my labs done this spring, while my LDL was the worst. Did I get healthier or sicker? Or both? Or do they cancel each other out? While I sort out my confusion regarding what certain numbers mean, I think I'm going to stick with the thing that makes me feel like a million bucks

Perhaps the challenge with all research relating to nutrition and the human is there are so many variables that it's hard to apply.

I think this is dead on. That's why, when it comes to nutritional data, I tend to put quite a bit of weight in anecdotal data. In most areas, I would treat anecdotes as far inferior to a well designed study, and often wouldn't even refer to them as data. With human diet, we just don't have the time or the control over the subjects needed to get objectively high quality data. In fact, through no fault of nutrition researchers, nutrition research as a field produces pretty low quality data compared to other fields, for the very reason that you can't control peoples behavior precisely enough for long enough. Because of this, I'll look at 500 similar anecdotes about as seriously as a study that involves 500 subjects. In any other field that would be absurd, but in nutrition I think it's necessary.

 

[Bret S.]

I haven't heard the vitamin C vs. Lp(a) take on collagen repair, but it does sound plausible.

It makes sense to me that supple, pliable and healthy arterial walls won't need all the cholesterol (caulking) to repair small fissures as they won't be there. Vitamin C helps greatly here along with the control of inflammation.

I'm going to stick with the thing that makes me feel like a million bucks

+1

 

[Ryan T]

@Snowman How long have you been doing the diet again? what have you noticed with body comp, athletic/strength performance?

Also from a practical side, has this been an expensive diet to follow? Guess it depends on how much meat you buy and the quality.

 

[Snowman]

@Snowman How long have you been doing the diet again? what have you noticed with body comp, athletic/strength performance?

I started it in the middle of January, so about 8 months now. I've always been on the lean side, so I didn't notice any big differences there. I was down a few pounds of lean mass from my normal bodyweight when I started, and I gained that back plus a little bit. Went from high 140's back up to my normal of low 150's, then kept gaining. I've been stable in the high 150's for a few months now.
Athletic performance has improved, but I think that's mostly a side effect of improved recovery. For one, my golfer's elbow (that I had been battling for a few months) was about 90% gone after 2 weeks. The other telling thing was how many consecutive days I could train. See, instead of doing certain sessions on certain days, I just follow a continuous pattern and take a day off whenever I need it. Pre-carnivore I was doing 3-4 days in a row, then taking a rest day. After the first month or so of carnivore, I was doing 6-7 days in a row before needing a break. Since then, I've increased my workload pretty significantly. Better recover means I can train more and train heavier.
It's hard to tell if there were any performance benefits beyond that. I generally think everyone's endurance will improve if they can get fat adapted, but I was already fat adapted when I started.

Also from a practical side, has this been an expensive diet to follow? Guess it depends on how much meat you buy and the quality.

It costs a little more than I was paying before, but not enough to really have to adjust our budget. My rule of thumb is that I don't pay more than $3/pound for beef. I usually get a lot of sirloin and chuck when it goes on sale. The butchers at Safeway know me now, and yesterday they hooked me up with 40 pounds of chuck for $80. A normal freezer, when emptied of other stuff, will pretty easily hold 50+ pounds of meat.
Anyways, at about 2 pounds per day, and $3/pound, I eat about $180 worth of beef in a month. I also eat maybe ten dozen eggs per month ($15). Then tack on another $30-50- for odds and ends like cheese, bacon, sour cream, etc. I'll add $15/month to account for propane cost since I usually cook dinner on my little grill. So I guess that all works out to a food bill of $240-260/month. Obviously, there are ways I could cut that back if I wanted to, but it's not that much more than I normally pay.
Meat quality is definitely worth considering, but here's my thoughts: If you're only eating a little bit of meat each day, then you should eat the highest quality of meat you can, and be sure to eat organ meats, so that you get the best of what meat has to offer. If you're getting over a pound of meat a day, you're going to get everything that meat has to offer anyways. You might be slightly better off getting better meat, but plenty of people who have been doing this for a while say they don't notice any difference between different meat qualities. Some people are concerned with bovine growth hormones, but by the time the cattle are slaughtered, the amount of artificial hormone in the meat is dwarfed by the amount natural hormone in the meat, which is very low anyways. Antibiotic levels, which where never that high in tissue, are even lower now since they implemented stricter antibiotic usage regulations in 2017. I was concerned about hormone/antibiotic contamination when I started, but now that I did my homework, I'm not concerned.

 

[Ryan T]

I started it in the middle of January, so about 8 months now. I've always been on the lean side, so I didn't notice any big differences there. I was down a few pounds of lean mass from my normal bodyweight when I started, and I gained that back plus a little bit. Went from high 140's back up to my normal of low 150's, then kept gaining. I've been stable in the high 150's for a few months now.
Athletic performance has improved, but I think that's mostly a side effect of improved recovery. For one, my golfer's elbow (that I had been battling for a few months) was about 90% gone after 2 weeks. The other telling thing was how many consecutive days I could train. See, instead of doing certain sessions on certain days, I just follow a continuous pattern and take a day off whenever I need it. Pre-carnivore I was doing 3-4 days in a row, then taking a rest day. After the first month or so of carnivore, I was doing 6-7 days in a row before needing a break. Since then, I've increased my workload pretty significantly. Better recover means I can train more and train heavier.
It's hard to tell if there were any performance benefits beyond that. I generally think everyone's endurance will improve if they can get fat adapted, but I was already fat adapted when I started.


It costs a little more than I was paying before, but not enough to really have to adjust our budget. My rule of thumb is that I don't pay more than $3/pound for beef. I usually get a lot of sirloin and chuck when it goes on sale. The butchers at Safeway know me now, and yesterday they hooked me up with 40 pounds of chuck for $80. A normal freezer, when emptied of other stuff, will pretty easily hold 50+ pounds of meat.
Anyways, at about 2 pounds per day, and $3/pound, I eat about $180 worth of beef in a month. I also eat maybe ten dozen eggs per month ($15). Then tack on another $30-50- for odds and ends like cheese, bacon, sour cream, etc. I'll add $15/month to account for propane cost since I usually cook dinner on my little grill. So I guess that all works out to a food bill of $240-260/month. Obviously, there are ways I could cut that back if I wanted to, but it's not that much more than I normally pay.
Meat quality is definitely worth considering, but here's my thoughts: If you're only eating a little bit of meat each day, then you should eat the highest quality of meat you can, and be sure to eat organ meats, so that you get the best of what meat has to offer. If you're getting over a pound of meat a day, you're going to get everything that meat has to offer anyways. You might be slightly better off getting better meat, but plenty of people who have been doing this for a while say they don't notice any difference between different meat qualities. Some people are concerned with bovine growth hormones, but by the time the cattle are slaughtered, the amount of artificial hormone in the meat is dwarfed by the amount natural hormone in the meat, which is very low anyways. Antibiotic levels, which where never that high in tissue, are even lower now since they implemented stricter antibiotic usage regulations in 2017. I was concerned about hormone/antibiotic contamination when I started, but now that I did my homework, I'm not concerned.

Thanks for the detailed breakdown! I wondered if the difference between grass finished and conventional beef omega 6:3 ratio would be a concern or not. But if you're feeling great then it probably doesnt matter.

 

[Bret S.]

The other telling thing was how many consecutive days I could train. See, instead of doing certain sessions on certain days, I just follow a continuous pattern and take a day off whenever I need it. Pre-carnivore I was doing 3-4 days in a row, then taking a rest day. After the first month or so of carnivore, I was doing 6-7 days in a row before needing a break. Since then, I've increased my workload pretty significantly. Better recover means I can train more and train heavier.

This really caught my eye as I love to train a good amount of volume. Anecdotal but solid, I know you know your body better than anyone and pay attention to detail. This trend is long term and consistent?

Some people are concerned with bovine growth hormones, but by the time the cattle are slaughtered, the amount of artificial hormone in the meat is dwarfed by the amount natural hormone in the meat, which is very low anyways. Antibiotic levels, which where never that high in tissue, are even lower now since they implemented stricter antibiotic usage regulations in 2017. I was concerned about hormone/antibiotic contamination when I started, but now that I did my homework, I'm not concerned.

This sounds good, I worry at times about these and the xenoestrogens being so ubiquitous.

Anyways, at about 2 pounds per day, and $3/pound, I eat about $180 worth of beef in a month. I also eat maybe ten dozen eggs per month ($15). Then tack on another $30-50- for odds and ends like cheese, bacon, sour cream, etc. I'll add $15/month to account for propane cost since I usually cook dinner on my little grill. So I guess that all works out to a food bill of $240-260/month. Obviously, there are ways I could cut that back if I wanted to, but it's not that much more than I normally pay.

This sounds good, how do you pre plan meals and how do you not get sick of eating the same meats, different spices and such? Also how do you get a decent meal when eating out, if I adopted this eating strategy my GF will say, 'Good Lord, kettlebells kettlebells, and now this?'

 

[Snowman]

This trend is long term and consistent?

As far as I can tell. I looked back in my training log and it looks like I was pretty consistently able to train for 6-7 days at a time until June, when I significantly increased the weights I was working with and my running milage. After that it dropped to about 3-4 days in a row again. Since August I've added BJJ on top of everything, so that adds to the recovery load as well. Subjectively, I feel like I'm still doing more work than I used to be able to. A+A work with 32K snatches 3-4 days/week, 2 runs/week (usually 7+ miles), and BJJ 2-3 days/week. At the end of this week I noticed that I was getting a little ragged, so I'll probably insert another rest day in there somewhere, or not double up on the days I have BJJ.

how do you pre plan meals

I buy the meat in bulk, cut it into thick steaks, and wrap it in packages that are just a little over 3 pounds. That way one package is enough meat for dinner (my wife and me), and leftovers for breakfast or lunch the next day. I could just have a pile of steaks in a constant rotation, but I like neat and tidy packages. It takes maybe an hour or two of prep for a couple weeks worth of food.

how do you not get sick of eating the same meats

Everywhere I looked (before I started), people just said that they never got tired of steak. I was skeptical. Turns out they were right. My favorite way to eat steak is grilled, rare to medium/rare, with salt. So we eat that. Every night. Hasn't gotten old yet. Every once in a while we'll have something else just for the heck of it, but the next night we're always glad for the steak.

how do you get a decent meal when eating out

Depends where we go. If it's BBQ, I just forgo sides and sauces, or keep the sauce to a minimum. Most places you can get a bacon cheeseburger without the bun, or just a few patties. Chicken wings are always nice. There was one place with a "crustless pizza" that wasn't bad. It was exactly what you think it would be (more cheese than I would normally eat, though).
To be honest, I think eating out is definitely an Achilles' heel. I have a hard time justifying spending $20 on chicken wings and a burger patty when I can eat 28 oz of steak at home for under $6 . More often than not, when I go out I just order something small, and eat again at home. Or I eat before I go out. Or I just have a big breakfast the next day.

 

[Bret S.]

As far as I can tell. I looked back in my training log and it looks like I was pretty consistently able to train for 6-7 days at a time until June, when I significantly increased the weights I was working with and my running milage. After that it dropped to about 3-4 days in a row again. Since August I've added BJJ on top of everything, so that adds to the recovery load as well. Subjectively, I feel like I'm still doing more work than I used to be able to. A+A work with 32K snatches 3-4 days/week, 2 runs/week (usually 7+ miles), and BJJ 2-3 days/week. At the end of this week I noticed that I was getting a little ragged, so I'll probably insert another rest day in there somewhere, or not double up on the days I have BJJ.


I buy the meat in bulk, cut it into thick steaks, and wrap it in packages that are just a little over 3 pounds. That way one package is enough meat for dinner (my wife and me), and leftovers for breakfast or lunch the next day. I could just have a pile of steaks in a constant rotation, but I like neat and tidy packages. It takes maybe an hour or two of prep for a couple weeks worth of food.


Everywhere I looked (before I started), people just said that they never got tired of steak. I was skeptical. Turns out they were right. My favorite way to eat steak is grilled, rare to medium/rare, with salt. So we eat that. Every night. Hasn't gotten old yet. Every once in a while we'll have something else just for the heck of it, but the next night we're always glad for the steak.


Depends where we go. If it's BBQ, I just forgo sides and sauces, or keep the sauce to a minimum. Most places you can get a bacon cheeseburger without the bun, or just a few patties. Chicken wings are always nice. There was one place with a "crustless pizza" that wasn't bad. It was exactly what you think it would be (more cheese than I would normally eat, though).
To be honest, I think eating out is definitely an Achilles' heel. I have a hard time justifying spending $20 on chicken wings and a burger patty when I can eat 28 oz of steak at home for under $6 . More often than not, when I go out I just order something small, and eat again at home. Or I eat before I go out. Or I just have a big breakfast the next day.

Thanks for all the detailed info, this is an interesting concept, I'll have to mull it over and study the personal implications were I to try it.

 

[Brain Ignition]

The common paleo reply (others with more of a background in biology please chime in to correct or affirm me) is that while it's true that the liver is involved in detoxification it doesn't actually STORE toxins. Toxins are either excreted or wrapped in fat so they can be "safely stored" in the body. This is also related to the paleo communities emphasis on purchasing high quality meats (an emphasis that is, interestingly, not common in the carnivore community) - so that the fat is as healthy as possible.

I'm a little confused by your reply, you correctly said "toxins are stored in fat" (which they are - if the liver becomes over run with dealing with bodily toxins then they are shipped to fat for storage). But then said grass-fed meats (which are presumably lower in toxins) are not a priority about 100% carnivore... Why not? Hell if that's all I was eating I'd make dam sure it is atleat the good stuff.

So does one who is 100% carnivore forgo herbs and spices for their meat?