Kettlebell Alactic + Aerobic

[Kozushi]

Kozushi, without trying to sound like a pratt, your comment, "Running can wear out your knees a bit" made me think of Dan John in one of his books, when he talks about a lady who said squatting was hurting her knees. Dan takes a look at her squatting and says something like, " YOU are hurting your knees (by way of inefficient technique)"

I think too many people regard running ( and walking) as 'natural' as opposed to a movement skill to practice and refine like a KB snatch for example. And when injury/ pain occurs it's incorrectly assumed that 'running' causes issues.

Yes, in fact I have started running a few times a week. It's the fastest way to get in shape. It leaves weaknesses to be sure, which is why weights still matter (or callisthenics) but running could almost stand alone as a surefire, quick way to get in shape and to stay in shape!

 

[MikeTheBear]

I can't wait to get started with some rowing, it'll be a great tool for CVS work. I'm assuming your MAF is around 140 or so if I remember correctly, it seems like the rower can fine tune HR. My MAF is 121 + 5 I believe, so the idea of rowing at just under MAF for an hour would seem to yield some great CV benefits.

@Bret S. Don't know if you're still looking to buy a rowing machine but I have this one:

Costco Wholesale

It's a "little" less expensive than a C2. I got one during their Christmas sale so I got a great deal. I worried that the water might leak but no issues so far. The sound of the water is quite soothing. Nothing against C2 but I am very happy with it.

 

[Bret S.]

@Bret S. Don't know if you're still looking to buy a rowing machine but I have this one:

Costco Wholesale

It's a "little" less expensive than a C2. I got one during their Christmas sale so I got a great deal. I worried that the water might leak but no issues so far. The sound of the water is quite soothing. Nothing against C2 but I am very happy with it.

Thanks Mike, this looks like an awesome machine but I had a Stamina ATS Air Rower delivered on Mon this week.
It's solidly built with a chain pull and over size tubing, nothing fancy with the electronics but I don't need that. I'm very happy with it, got it thru ebay for $360.00 delivered.
Reviews say they're solid no frills machines and I have to agree, if I had it to do over I would get the Stamina X Air Rower, same machine with pivoting pedals, found out later an extra $15.00 would have done it. : /

 

[banzaiengr]

I was concerned this ‘wasn’t enough’ and am considering upping the weight. The trouble is I’ll spike to 150-160 at the end of a long staircase or steep hill.

As Harald has written, a pace that I can do all day everyday. Not knowing what your MAF is I would say don't fret. Just slow down enough to keep it close. Personally I don't think it hurts much to go a little over but a little lower is better.

 

[banzaiengr]

I’m diligently working on the book. Please be patient.

How much for a first edition autographed copy?

 

[Harald Motz]

Just want to bash this thread for another time, giving credit to Alactic + Aerobic training. I started some EMOM snatching lately. EMOM where the first protocols "lazy endurance" protocols from Al. As did lots of Alactic snatches over many months, I gave it a shot with my first session 10 days ago:

snatch 40kg - 5rx20 EMOM - 139average/157max

today's session:
snatch 40kg - 5rx20 EMOM - 123average/144max

These were the best recoveries so far. Almost breezed from the grey area through the blue and not exceeding the green zone. The base for that was/is Alactic + Aerobic work.

 

[fractal]

As Harald has written, a pace that I can do all day everyday. Not knowing what your MAF is I would say don't fret. Just slow down enough to keep it close. Personally I don't think it hurts much to go a little over but a little lower is better.

I just got a little device to track my HR. Was out for about 70 minutes but fumbling around with new technology ended up chopping the walk into two sections. Here’s the second half, starting at the bottom of a long staircase carrying 10kg - my area is very hilly and my dog has been known to pull. My MAF is 149

 

[Oscar]

@Oscar : In my opinion it's a bad idea when going to long and or to hard on the endurance activity. After strength training just view it as an active recovery. I think an important aspect is, also for endurance training in general, to start easily. Right after strength training the hr is somewhat elevated and then especially, when starting locomoting to hard, it gets difficult to settle the hr. Around half an hour could be just about right. Breathe easily and rhythmically trough the nose and try to move effortless.

Harald and @offwidth , thanks for your comments. Yesterday I did my running separately from S&S and found out that I could run 1 km/h faster than when I ran immediately after S&S, in both cases at my MAF.

This is good news for me because I found my MAF is 8 km/h or a bit higher, which is a speed I enjoy, while running at 7 km/h feels too slow and I don't like it.

 

[Harald Motz]

I enjoy

a key element, no one can argue against.

 

[fractal]

a key element, no one can argue against.

+1! I’m really loving this lifestyle. Today I made time to get 3 hours of walking through the bush with my dog and 4kg in my vest. One of the best times I’ve had in recent memory


My dog enjoyed it too

 

[Steve Freides]

Everything following this point in this thread has been moved to its own thread, link below:

New Zealand

-S-

 

[offwidth]

Everything following this point in this thread has been moved to its own thread, link below:

New Zealand

-S-

Thanks

 

[malleus]

An article from Mike Boyle entitled, "The Idiots Are Still At It" that begins:

I just received an email from a reader saying that a local middle school in his area had instituted Cardiovascular Days. Students use heart rate monitors and must run for 20 min at 160 BPM. This is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard of at least three reasons.

The Idiots Are Still At It – Michael Boyle – Medium

Interesting... But I disagree...

 

[Snowman]

The Idiots Are Still At It – Michael Boyle – Medium

A good example of the "do it right or don't do it at all" mentality taken too far. Could I think of a dozen better ways to train adolescents in 20 minutes? Sure I could. I could also think of a dozen worse ways. Low-intensity running is easy to convince people to do, easy to execute, and pretty hard to screw up if you're only doing it for 20 minutes (seriously, even with garbage running mechanics, it's pretty hard to hurt yourself in 20 minutes a few days a week). Also, it's about a thousand times better than nothing, which is what many of the kids in question would be doing otherwise.

Sarcasm aside, I'm sure Michael Boyle could design a much more effective, comprehensive S&C program. However, unless he plans to do exactly that, and then go implement it with those kiddos, his opinion carries about as much weight as an anorexic hummingbird.

 

[North Coast Miller]

An article from Mike Boyle entitled, "The Idiots Are Still At It" that begins:



The Idiots Are Still At It – Michael Boyle – Medium

Interesting... But I disagree...

I agree with your disagreement - since when is 20 minutes "distance running" and why not have a subjective target that pretty much automatically adjusts for body comp and fitness level for all but the most athletic participants.

 

[Harald Motz]

Today I pulled the first time a 10k sub 40min on the concept2. Nothing earth shattering but I am happy with how it went, as I wanted to see if I can stay at a 2min/500m split.
Yesterday I had a similar row where I went some harder spontaneously after 25min, and finished at 40,20min.

It turned out I could and I was able to pull the last 1000m a bit stronger that I got 1,56min split on average for the last 2000m. After the row I rowed for 20min easily @ 120- 125 for cooling down.

I am quite happy with the A+A benefits, as my training paradigm, to be able to handle quite a bit of "training stress". Aerobic base, that it is. Than I have the right as I see it, to jump a bit into the realm of anaerobic clycolysis, occasionally.


10km 39:47 min

 

[Snowman]

Nicely done @Harald Motz. I checked the C2 website and it looks like 39:47 somewhere around the 60-70th percentile. Of course, that's a little misleading, since the only people submitting their times are competitive rowers of some kind or another. Not bad for a fella who just rows for fun.

 

[Snowman]

You know, I've been pondering something for a while now, and I am yet to come to a satisfactory explanation on my own. It's been mentioned a few times, but I think the 3rd post on this thread puts it succinctly.

High volume aerobic running allows you to absorb more anaerobic training with less biologic cost. There's no other way to push this bar; and no way around it.

I assume this is true. I've observed it with myself, and it's been reported by many others, but why is it? If A+A work creates an aerobic demand, why can't it increase one's ability to absorb anaerobic training in a manner similar to high volume aerobic work? Is it simply a volume and recovery issue? I could see the extra aerobic work adding to the aerobic training volume without creating excessive recovery demand, but even then it wouldn't mean that you couldn't use A+A to replace LED work, simply the A+A+LED is better than A+A alone. It seems like LED work offers something unique, though, and I'm wondering why that is.

Or is this something that, while being reliably and repeatably observed, isn't laid out as neatly as we would like? I'm alright with that, but given the choice between understanding and ignorance, I try to achieve the former.

 

[Harald Motz]

Thanks Matt. When I look at the strokes and compare it to "better" rowers, then I am about ten higher. Nobody can say, that I don't use my legs...I don't spin my head around technique. It is just suficient for me, that I could row all day without ever having any irritation on my back. So I consider my technique just decent.

Rowing is actually a great device to build endurance adaptations for the whole body. It is also a great tool to build power. Lately I like Alactics and Aerobics on the C2. That is a really cool tool to blend them together just perfectly. Doing so, an hour on the rower flies by. The rower is unique in many aspects. Just one thing to muse about is the fact, that it is the only endurance event with weight classes.

I am really happy with my row, as it shows me that I may can get a 10k/40min without even entering the yellow zone. These are the adaptations that make me content. I know how I can get there without bashing me to this. It's work but not hard work.

 

[Al Ciampa]

Or is this something that, while being reliably and repeatably observed, isn't laid out as neatly as we would like? I'm alright with that, but given the choice between understanding and ignorance, I try to achieve the former.

I think that we have this pretty well understood: it has to do with stimulating slow twitch fibers only, running the heart not far above 2 beats per second, and also what KJ elucidated in "The Cardio Code" about CV adaptations.