Kettlebell The Quick and the Dead - MegaThread

[Steve Freides]

If you've read from cover to cover - that is a prerequisite - and have questions, let's keep them all here for a little while.

Thanks, folks.

-S-

 

[Alan Mackey]

I just bought it and flicked through it.

My impressions are pretty much the same as when I finished reading S&S: an interesting read, well laid-out explanations, a nice program, but... not my cup of tea in either case (S&S or Q&D).

Anyway, I don't regret the purchase. I kinda liked the new approach.

 

[Phi' D']

Really looking forward to reading, and re-reading this book. I want to know the why, as I found doing S&S you're training your mind equally as much as your bum, so understanding the why is an essential part of it. It's nourishment.

Like everyone else I'm itching to know!

My Q&D question is - What is a 'power' push-up?

I'd appreciate any description, suggested tempo or rep-ranges. I use press-up ladders when away from bells in a GTG fashion, and like to mix up the style (diamond, wide grip, decline etc) It's been crucial for supporting my kettlebell swings (explosiveness) and kettlebell military press, when I've not had bells available.

I'm not asking for the Q&D protocol, just a brief description of one of its two exercises, 'the 'power' push-up'. That would be great.

Many thanks

 

[Sean M]

These 5/4 snatch repeats have me like:

 

[Bauer]

The winners for exercise selection are swings, pushups and snatches. Which other exercises would be worthy candidates?

Dips are mentioned. Sprints for 6 seconds, too. Maybe jumping squats and power pullups or bodyweight rows.

I think explosive 4-point rocking and explosive battlerope waves would possibly meet the criteria, too.

 

[Bauer]

Really looking forward to reading, and re-reading this book. I want to know the why, as I found doing S&S you're training your mind equally as much as your bum, so understanding the why is an essential part of it. It's nourishment.

Like everyone else I'm itching to know!

My Q&D question is - What is a 'power' push-up?

I'd appreciate any description, suggested tempo or rep-ranges. I use press-up ladders when away from bells in a GTG fashion, and like to mix up the style (diamond, wide grip, decline etc) It's been crucial for supporting my kettlebell swings (explosiveness) and kettlebell military press, when I've not had bells available.

I'm not asking for the Q&D protocol, just a brief description of one of its two exercises, 'the 'power' push-up'. That would be great.

Many thanks

This article has you covered:
Plans for Building Powerful Pushups | StrongFirst

Also, have a look at the SF social media posts: StrongFirst

 

[Norville Barnes]

If you've read from cover to cover - that is a prerequisite - and have questions, let's keep them all here for a little while.

Thanks, folks.

-S-

Nice try Steve.

I’m only halfway through so I’ll reserve commenting.

 

[mikerobinson]

I finished the book last night, and greatly enjoyed it. Especially the sections on the mitochondria and oxidative stress.

The sections on the difference between Russian scientific research and Western scientific research on the mitochondria are pertinent to some of the discussions on here.

While this is an extremity, I help people with mitochondria disease (and have one myself), while being engaged in active research on the mitochondria as part of my day job (in genetics).

Always been dissatisfied with the current state of knowledge regarding exercise science and the mitochondria because it doesn’t seem to translate practically into the real world, and people who needed to improve mitochondrial health ended up getting worse, due to oxidative stress from HIIT. Even those without mitochondrial diseases, but with genetic pathways that make them prone to oxidative stress suffered. In other words, this agrees more with the Russian literature than the Western literature.

In this regard, A+A was a game changer. And helped everyone we’ve tested it on. Making them stronger and fitter without the fatigue or knock effect upon health. Hopefully, Q &D will be another potent weapon.

However, in the programming section of Q & D I was a little more confused or wanting some more information. Perhaps I need to read it again slower.

For example, it wasn’t clear when one progresses the weight of the ballistic exercise like the swing or Viking press.

I was also surprised at the rests, which I thought would be longer, as we are back to OTM training, which for some can be too short a rest. But the proof of the pudding is on the eating. I guess switching exercises between series (those who have read will understand) adds to the rest of muscle groups, although not necessarily of the aerobic system. Whereas the three minute rests mentioned earlier in the book made much more sense.

Loved the dice and the variable training loads. In a way, over the course of a week that also adds to the rest and guards against overtraining.

Also wondered while there were plenty of pull or ballistic exercises, there was only one Q &D push, the push up. Perhaps because it needs to be explosive. But it would be interesting to know if another Q&D push exercise could be substituted. I’m not sure I could think of one.

As it’s a minimalist program that focuses on power (that produces strength) the other question that came to my mind was can some minimalist strength training be added in. This isn’t to change the program before everyone jumps on me. But as Pavel says, with Q & D you can do easy cardio work after. Question is, can you do some low volume, low rep minimalist strength, like two lifts at 2x5 twice a week, as Q&D is 2-3 days a week.

Perhaps Pavel Macek might have some thoughts about the programming element.

 

[Steve Freides]

I was also surprised at the rests, which I thought would be longer, as we are back to OTM training, which for some can be too short a rest.

@mikerobinson, it's not just "OTM" - it's a specified number of sets in a series, and a specified rest between series.

Also wondered while there were plenty of pull or ballistic exercises, there was only one Q &D push, the push up. Perhaps because it needs to be explosive. But it would be interesting to know if another Q&D push exercise could be substituted. I’m not sure I could think of one.

@mikerobinson, I will diverge slightly from what Pavel says in the book, based on my own experience experimenting with these protocols (and no doubt Pavel will let me know if I've overstepped here): I think many exercises can be adapted to these protocols - those "many" won't work as well as the ones Pavel has chosen, but that doesn't mean they still won't deliver positive benefits and results. I tried, e.g., with the military press - it wasn't what the book recommends, but I still felt like it was beneficial. I used light weights, light enough to bounce at the top of a press, and I also varied the weights to keep it from getting stale. Again, I want to stress these are not the best choices, but I don't think we need to eliminate them altogether.

Question is, can you do some low volume, low rep minimalist strength, like two lifts at 2x5 twice a week, as Q&D is 2-3 days a week.

IANPM (I am not Pavel Macek) but IMO, the answer is an unqualified Yes. I think one can also do Q&D and do strength training later in the day - I've done that and like it.

-S-

 

[ali]

Well it seems to me so far picking up on what has been said that everyone should get outside and get sprinting.

 

[Antti]

Well it seems to me so far picking up on what has been said that everyone should get outside and get sprinting.

The power in sprinting stops too soon according to the science, sprinters stop accelerating too soon. Still, an excellent form of exercise, but not optimal.

 

[Steve Freides]

I've done this SE/Q&D protocols with sprinting and I loved it. My particular version was to sprint 30 steps. If you maintain, as most good runners do, a cadence of around 180 footfalls per minute, that's 10 seconds. As I just wrote elsewhere (earlier in this thread?), while it may not be perfect, it's far from useless, and counting steps make it easy. I held my phone in my hand and use it as a timer. And when I ran, I just kept thinking, "faster, faster, faster" until my 30 steps were finished.

-S-

 

[mikerobinson]

IANPM (I am not Pavel Macek)

But a very welcome reply nonetheless ;-)

Just to follow up on the OTM point. And I could have misunderstood. But what I was trying to get at was, yes the it’s a defined number of reps per series. However, looking at the 10/2. It’s still 10 reps on the minute, for two sets, before switching to the other exercise, which while using different muscles will still tax the cardio system and potentially fatigue, lead to oxidative stress and impact the mitochondria.

Now this may be enough rest, I’m certainly not disagreeing, the proof is in the trying. But it is less than A+A so I was surprised a little and wondered if it might be too little rest for some, especially as earlier in the book it mentions how long sprinters rest, and the three minute rest intervals.

 

[mikerobinson]

I think one can also do Q&D and do strength training later in the day - I've done that and like it.

Did you reduce your volume / intensity / frequency compared to what you would normally do while on Q & D.

 

[Steve Freides]

@mikerobinson, please look again at the chart on the first page of Part IV of the book and note the timing. If it's not clear, come on back here.

Thanks.

-S-

 

[mikerobinson]

@mikerobinson, please look again at the chart on the first page of Part IV of the book and note the timing. If it's not clear, come on back here.

Thanks.

-S-

Thank you.

So, just gone back and read the first few pages of part IV. And it states:

"Within each series, you will be doing a set of five reps every 30 seconds or 10 reps on the minute."

Followed by:

"The rest between series is the time left until the start of the next minute, plus one minute: around 1:20 with 5/4 and 1:45 with 10/2."

So, effectively, 10 reps OTM right? With around 48-51 seconds of rest, depending on speed.

I guess the key differences with normal OTM training is:

1. The time / reps of the session are capped.
2. The series limit the time per exercise before switching, limiting muscle fatigue and power drop off.
3. There is a slightly longer rest between series than normal OTM training, but not between sets of the same exercise.

What I'm intrigued to find out, is this going to be enough rest? Compared to HIIT certainly. Compared to 3 minute rests, A+A, or some sprint training as mentioned in the book, the rest intervals seem a little shorter.

Have I understood this correctly?

(None of this is a critique btw. I love the books. I just have further questions to understand).

 

[conor78]

Read through once at a quick clip. Loved it. Will need a lot of re-reading to digest fully.
I have been using plan 033c and in it you could do low reps of pull up and squats on off days. Also if you were doing a set of 40 60 reps you could use 20 mins at the end to do goblet and TGU. This wasn’t mentioned in the book but I think I’ll retain and see how I fare.

 

[Sean M]

@mikerobinson Don’t forget about the extra 1:00+ minute (swings & pushups) and 2:00+ for snatches:

• 0:00 - 5 snatches
• 0:15 - rest
• 0:30 - 5 snatches
• 0:45 - rest
• 1:00 - 5 snatches
• 1:15 - rest
• 1:30 - 5 snatches
• 1:45-4:00 - rest
• 4:00 - next series (other arm)

 

[Bauer]

Thank you.

So, just gone back and read the first few pages of part IV. And it states:

"Within each series, you will be doing a set of five reps every 30 seconds or 10 reps on the minute."

Followed by:

"The rest between series is the time left until the start of the next minute, plus one minute: around 1:20 with 5/4 and 1:45 with 10/2."

So, effectively, 10 reps OTM right? With around 48-51 seconds of rest, depending on speed.

I guess the key differences with normal OTM training is:

1. The time / reps of the session are capped.
2. The series limit the time per exercise before switching, limiting muscle fatigue and power drop off.
3. There is a slightly longer rest between series than normal OTM training, but not between sets of the same exercise.

What I'm intrigued to find out, is this going to be enough rest? Compared to HIIT certainly. Compared to 3 minute rests, A+A, or some sprint training as mentioned in the book, the rest intervals seem a little shorter.

Have I understood this correctly?

(None of this is a critique btw. I love the books. I just have further questions to understand).

Please reread the the part after the 10x10s. Interval-series are supposed to leave rest between sets incomplete - but leave plenty of rest between series to make up for it. This helps with cp depletion.

 

[Bauer]

As for sprinting: hill sprints could do the trick, since you need to accelerate with every step, at least more so than on the ground. Maybe hill sprints for 10-15 seconds could work as a substitute for 10/2. Or classic sprints for 6 seconds for 5/4.