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Bodyweight Weighted Calisthenics..... Under-rated?

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Looks great. I am a martial artist for years en d want a good starring routine .
Can Simone put down a good starting routine for bodyweight.
Keep in kind that rigt hoe i can do only 3 pullups.
I want to work up to train the same as you guys. Training with bodyweight exercises with weights but dont know were to start.
I still have my martial arts to train zo i dont have hours a dat to workout.
Amy help to start would be very welkome.
 
@lokate Have you read The Naked Warrior?

You won't find a better starting template for bodyweight training, once you learn the basic principles of high tension and learn to apply them you could start adding weight later. I'd advise to work those pullups until you can do 8-10 good reps (without cheating) before you start adding too much extra weight. Tendons typically lag behind muscles when you begin this sort of training and your muscles can actually get too strong for you tendons and cause injuries if you add a lot of weight before your tendons have adapted,

It's OK to add weight but master the basics first.
 
Looks great. I am a martial artist for years en d want a good starring routine .
Can Simone put down a good starting routine for bodyweight.
Keep in kind that rigt hoe i can do only 3 pullups.
I want to work up to train the same as you guys. Training with bodyweight exercises with weights but dont know were to start.
I still have my martial arts to train zo i dont have hours a dat to workout.
Amy help to start would be very welkome.

Lokate, check it. I have to handle some paper work tonight and I'll be busy, but tomorrow looks much more free. If you can wait until tomorrow I can send you a screen shot of my full routine / schedule and it will probably save you a lot of reading and time. I did what was suggested above, read Naked Warrior and T-Nation, months of research, learning. The problem is, all the reading helped knowledge wise, but when you start into weighted calesth. it's tough, being that most people just like yourself just starting would be lucky to do 3 chin ups. With that said, there was a lot of things with weighted calesth. that I learned from trial and error so if you give me a day I think I can save you a lot of reading, time, and trial and error.

The funny thing is, believe it or not I quit working out for years. My first day back, was worse than you! I got (2) pull ups total with no additional weight. Now 3.5 months later, I maxed out today with 49 lbs for 1 rep and 17 reps max with no weight. But remember, 3.5 months ago, I was worse off than you. I honestly read a lot of forums, people said you wouldn't see results for months after working out. FALSE. With weighted calesth. I started growing within 1 month, within 2 months, the results were VERY NOTICEABLE. Not only were the results very noticeable, but I could literally feel my strength gains going through the roof.

With that said, if you can give me a day, I'll do a full write up via pm for you with my schedule. The reason I brought this up to you was because you said you were into martial arts and I think you would like my routine for martial arts, or at least give you something to start with. But I think you would benefit from my program in martial arts, as I now uses a 6 day split, 3 upper, 3 lower. But (2) of those days are for mass, the other day I've geared around fighting. The other day consist of all explosiveness, speed, and power exercises, where the other (2) days are for muscle building. I think it would carry over great to your martial arts.

LMK if your interested.
 
Thanks tarzan and thanks pull up fighter.
Would be great if you want to writer your training to me.
I am not much a computer expert so i dont know what you mean by LMK.
But you can me me to otherwise?
Wlokate@gmail.com
Would be great that you will do that.
 
Maybe this one is of help to some:
The Set / Rep Bible | T Nation

It gives a pretty good idea how to programm sets/reps and it can be applied to bw exercises (like dips, pullups etc.) in the same it would be applied to any other modality.
 
Looks great. I am a martial artist for years en d want a good starring routine .
Can Simone put down a good starting routine for bodyweight.
Keep in kind that rigt hoe i can do only 3 pullups.
I want to work up to train the same as you guys. Training with bodyweight exercises with weights but dont know were to start.
I still have my martial arts to train zo i dont have hours a dat to workout.
Amy help to start would be very welkome.
The Naked Warrior program focuses on one arm pushups and one legged squats. It also endorses pullups it seems.
You can get strong without adding extra weight onto yourself.
 
@pullupfighter Check out Tactical Barbell, which has 6-week periodization that promotes/recommends weighted pull-ups (there are also suggestions for a weighted bodyweight-centric "cluster" of exercises as he calls them). It's the standard 3-5 sets of 3-5 reps at 70-95% 1RM formula. I believe the author of TB has a mass-building book now (which I haven't read) which may include bodyweight variations.

I don't know if gymnasts use weighted bodyweight movements, but they are (in my opinion) the strongest people on the planet when considering their low weights. The men in particular look absolutely jacked; what I've heard is that their tendons and ligaments are so strong/big that it looks like extra muscles.
 
I don't know if gymnasts use weighted bodyweight movements, but they are (in my opinion) the strongest people on the planet when considering their low weights
Interesting question... perhaps there are some gymnasts out there who can answer this?
If I were to speculate, I would say generally no (with the exception maybe of pull-ups) because training gymnastics moves with added weight would interfere with movement patterns.
Rock climbers (which I have more than a passing knowledge about) typically do not train with additional weight. I said typically. Some guys I know, (myself included at times) will add some weight when doing endurance laps in the climbing gym. (Or wear a pack to simulate Alpine rock climbing) We will also do weighted pull-ups, and hangboard training.
 
Hello,

It is also possible to make things harder by playing with the time under tension. For instance, doing a push up with a slow eccentric and a regular / fast concenctric.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Coming from someone who used to be 100lbs lighter. Intentionally packing on mass is NOT a good idea. It comes with hidden perils such as joint issues, sleep apnea (maybe), and just generally makes it harder to move the body. You will NOT find bodyweight movements easier if you pack on mass no matter how many you do. I am 250lbs and have been doing calisthencs for a few years and while I am stronger, it does not seem to be "easier" per say.

With that said, my personal favorite program utilizes the Fighter Pull-Up Program sets and reps in a full-body regimen. Except instead of only taking one day off between 5 day cycles, I take two. So essentially it becomes a 5 day a week program. The volume gradually builds, once you hit your 5th week or cycle, you can progress to harder movements and then restart the process. I am currently doing the following exercises:

Ring Pull-Up with Band Assistance
Shrimp Squat down to a low box (left leg)
Hanging Knee Raise
Ring Push-Up
Shrimp Squat down to a low box (right leg)
Head Bridge (for timed holds, 5 seconds = 1 rep)
 
Coming from someone who used to be 100lbs lighter. Intentionally packing on mass is NOT a good idea. It comes with hidden perils such as joint issues, sleep apnea (maybe), and just generally makes it harder to move the body. You will NOT find bodyweight movements easier if you pack on mass no matter how many you do. I am 250lbs and have been doing calisthencs for a few years and while I am stronger, it does not seem to be "easier" per say.

With that said, my personal favorite program utilizes the Fighter Pull-Up Program sets and reps in a full-body regimen. Except instead of only taking one day off between 5 day cycles, I take two. So essentially it becomes a 5 day a week program. The volume gradually builds, once you hit your 5th week or cycle, you can progress to harder movements and then restart the process. I am currently doing the following exercises:

Ring Pull-Up with Band Assistance
Shrimp Squat down to a low box (left leg)
Hanging Knee Raise
Ring Push-Up
Shrimp Squat down to a low box (right leg)
Head Bridge (for timed holds, 5 seconds = 1 rep)

Hello John,

Few queries from your own experience,

1) do you find the bodyweight is not just a weight issue but also a range of motion issue? I.e does the added mass at 250 restrict the movement making the movement physically restricted due to tissue being in the way
2) do you think the issues you stated with increased weight are the same irrelevant of what the 'mass' is? I. E 250 at 10% has the same issues as 250 at 25% body fat?
 
Coming from someone who used to be 100lbs lighter. Intentionally packing on mass is NOT a good idea. It comes with hidden perils such as joint issues, sleep apnea (maybe), and just generally makes it harder to move the body. You will NOT find bodyweight movements easier if you pack on mass no matter how many you do. I am 250lbs and have been doing calisthencs for a few years and while I am stronger, it does not seem to be "easier" per say.

But the top gymnastic athletes are very muscular, are they not? Of course, in the right places, like I can understand many avoiding adding even lean mass on their legs.
 
@Glen - It is indeed a ROM issue. For example, my arms are around 17.5 - 18" and I find it hard to do pull-ups to my chest without a back arch. A tactical pull-up is near impossible even with crazy help with resistance bands due to ROM. When I "pull-up" my arms tend to be out in front of my body more than they used to be. Years ago in the Marine Corps at at 175ish pounds, I had zero issue with this.

As far as the mass ratio question, I think someone at 250lbs and 10% body fat may have a somewhat easier time than someone at 25% body fat. The added muscle can help the movement but does not change the weight being moved. Though their can be other variables, such as if the guy at 25% bodyfat is physically stronger than the guy at 10% (I tend to be stronger than many who are leaner than me). Where overall muscle mass makes a negligible difference.

I have found, from experience being both 155lbs and 250lbs that at 155lbs calisthenics becomes purely endurance if you do not progress to more difficult movements. At 250lbs, even the most basic movements will almost always be strength-endurance based. I am rather strong and able to do some advanced calisthenics movements, but high-rep stuff is somewhat out of my depth due to my weight.

@Antti - The average weight of a male gymnast is 150lbs. They are indeed very muscular but they do not train for that goal at all. Some of these athletes put in 30+ hours of training weekly. This can make the muscle they have appear larger (with their shirt off). If you look at one in a T-shirt they will appear rather small.
 
Okay, so I'm back to revive the thread!!! I haven't came up missing, only been busy with training and work and haven't had much time for browsing.

So to clear things up, John, I can see where your coming from. At 250 lbs, body weight movements would be much more challenging. I've also found this to be true, the more your body weight goes up. My first few months, I struggled with adding weight for this reason. My workout schedule would always look something like this ("Weighted Pull Up's 4 Sets 8 Reps + 25 lbs.) Just as an example. I'd try to increase the weight weekly. However, I wasn't accounting for my body weight going up weekly as I grow. This made things much more challenging. So what I did, was switch to keeping track my using "Total Weight" lifted to the bar, including my body weight. Now each week, I increase my "total" weight lifted up to the bar. It's kind of hard to explain, but hopefully you see what I'm saying.

With that said, I'm still progressing VERY QUICKLY by the week. My entire body composition is changing. Not that I attribute it to weighted calesth., but more so because I have a routine that enables be to be consistent and hit it hard every single morning, from my own house.

I'm far from a bodybuilder, so please don't make fun of me for sharing this! LOL I meant that seriously, because I know so many guys here have been training for years and are light ages ahead of me. But here's my progress so far!

5 months ago: 145 lbs soaking wet, and weak.
IMG-2525

5 months later: 172 lbs and feeling VERY strong.
Full-Size-R-1

I've noticed a huge increase in my chest, and my deltoids are much, much bigger and rounded. My shirts are becoming "short" at the butt because it seems like my trapz and arms are growing by the day. I've also noticed very little weight gain in the stomach, which gives me the impression that I still have some more bulking to do. I was honestly planning on getting out of bulking at 175, but my weight is steadily increasing by the week, so I want to get as much out of it as I can, before things start slowing down. So now, my new goal is to reach 190, then afterwards switch over to my old "Convict Conditioning" method of training. However, when switching, I'm planning to keep 1 heavy day a week, then convict condition the rest of the week.

I still have a long ways to go, but I'm pretty proud of my progress, however, I still got 7 months in my first year, and I'm excited to compare month 1 to month 12.
 
@pullupfighter - your adjustment to account for your own increasing bodyweight is a very solid move and makes more sense. Adding just straight weight to any bodyweight move is a bit more complicated then adding weight to a barbell. If I personally added weight to anything it would be calisthenics moves. You may find that you will look less like a bodybuilder but more like those Greek statues. I am glad that you are finding good, solid improvement week to week. That is nearly 30lbs increase in your bodyweight. That is 20% increase in body-mass in just 5 months. I cannot say this is good or bad, but it seems fast for 5 months. I started at 155lbs out of boot camp and now am 250lbs with sleep apnea and joint issues. Just be careful.
 
But the top gymnastic athletes are very muscular, are they not? Of course, in the right places, like I can understand many avoiding adding even lean mass on their legs.
@Antti, I was surprised by this result - after reading your post, I did a search on

"How much do male gymnasts weigh?"

The first result I got said

"The vast majority of male gymnasts weigh less than 150 lbs."

and went on to say they look larger because they're so lean, but that in street clothes most would look small compared to a bodybuilder.

-S-
 
Different sport but still very gravity centric... some of the 'top' male rock climbers:
  • Alex Honnold 5'11" 160 lbs (BMI 22)
  • Chris Sharma 6'o" 165lbs (BMI 22)
  • Kevin Jorgenson 5'9" 145lbs (BMI 21.4)
  • Adam Ondra 6'1" 150lbs (BMI 19.8)
 
I'm currently building my pushup strength with bands and it's working very well. I'm these days huge fan of bw exercises.
 
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