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Bodyweight Explosive vs TUT? Concentric vs Eccentric movements?

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movestrength

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Which would lead to more strength and power growth? One hundred explosive repetitions or ten TUT repetitions with a 10-second rest in between each exercise?

Also, which will create more power and strength? The concentric or eccentric part of a repetition.
 
Which would lead to more strength and power growth? One hundred explosive repetitions or ten TUT repetitions with a 10-second rest in between each exercise?
IMO, both of these strategies will lead to burnout and injury.

As a general rule with respect to safety you want to train the energy systems and muscle fibers in this order: Endurance, Hypertrophy, Strength, Power. For example, the NSCA recommends that an athlete may not participate in a plyometric program until they can safely back squat 2 x bodyweight for multiple reps.

Also, which will create more power and strength? The concentric or eccentric part of a repetition.
With weight around 60% of your 1RM, an explosive concentric rep will primarily enhance power as you will physically be moving the weight fast (speed). With a weight that is 75-90% of your 1RM, an explosive concentric rep driven by the increased recruitment of your CNS and motor neurons that innervate the muscle fibers, you will be enhancing both strength and power even though the weights are not physically moving quickly.

The eccentric part of the rep augments strength.

With a balanced kettlebell program, you can achieve all 4 qualities as GPP (General Physical Preparation). None will stand out, but all will be available at your disposal.

If you want to focus on 1 particular quality, then you will need to modify your programming to be more specific towards that goal.
 
Also, which will create more power and strength? The concentric or eccentric part of a repetition.

Which are you asking about, power or strength?

They're not the same thing.

Strongmen (strength) are not Olympic lifters (power), and vice versa.

And they don't train the same, because the goals are different.
 
IMO, both of these strategies will lead to burnout and injury.

As a general rule with respect to safety you want to train the energy systems and muscle fibers in this order: Endurance, Hypertrophy, Strength, Power. For example, the NSCA recommends that an athlete may not participate in a plyometric program until they can safely back squat 2 x bodyweight for multiple reps.


With weight around 60% of your 1RM, an explosive concentric rep will primarily enhance power as you will physically be moving the weight fast (speed). With a weight that is 75-90% of your 1RM, an explosive concentric rep driven by the increased recruitment of your CNS and motor neurons that innervate the muscle fibers, you will be enhancing both strength and power even though the weights are not physically moving quickly.

The eccentric part of the rep augments strength.

With a balanced kettlebell program, you can achieve all 4 qualities as GPP (General Physical Preparation). None will stand out, but all will be available at your disposal.

If you want to focus on 1 particular quality, then you will need to modify your programming to be more specific towards that goal.

I have been doing seven rounds of high-intensity interval boxing circuits before focusing on time under tension and skill work on the still rings.

I have been reading the training philosophies of Charles Bronson and Mike Tyson, they built strong and muscular bodies by doing hundreds of bodyweight repetitions in a cell.

"Show me another guy who can rip out 1,727 press-ups in an hour. I can … I once went eight years without using weights, then I went into a gym and bench pressed 300lb ten times"
Charles Bronson

I did 25 sets of 40 repetitions EMOM for 40 minutes for 1000 push-ups and it wasn't as challenging as I thought it would.
I haven't read his book Solitary Fitness but I could imagine that this type of high volume training could lead to burnout without high recovery.

After buying a few books on special forces training, I noticed the workouts to be very similar to CrossFit and Cross Training workouts with the exception of the running, swimming, and rucking workouts that the special forces do.
 
Hello,

@LvlUpStr
Ultra high repetition training is what I did for quite some time, with good results, I have to admit it. I used this strategy for squats, push ups and pull ups.

Tyson or Herschel Walker or often showed as super strong (which is true), but they are also genetic freak. This kind of training has value to a certain extent, but up to a point you reach a diminishing return point. It just becomes a work ethic and discipline, but does not really provides any value.

Now, I mostly train with lower reps (ladder of 3), but harder variations. I use both kb C&P (in my main routine in the morning) and OAP / OAOL PU + Pistol during the day (GTG). At home, mostly GTG pull ups (sets of 10) each time I am under the bar, which is quite often.

This is way more efficient.

Recently, I did two things which surprised me:

1/
The "Murph" WOD using 10kg weight:
- 1 mile run (actually, I did 2km as I rounded the conversion mile / km)
- 100 pull ups
- 200 push ups
- 300 squats
- 1 mile run

As I was in the woods, I used old judo belts for pull ups (which makes them way harder comparing to rings or pull up bar).

If we consider push ups and squats, low rep (ladder) StrongFirst-ish style of training delivers. Hitting the push ups and squats took me roughly 15-20 minutes...

Grip and blisters were the toughest thing with the pull ups actually.

Cardio conditioning is greatly secured with A+A training. When in quarantine, I only ran S&S. I only lost 15 minutes to my 15km trail in 3 months. The aerobic base is easily maintained that way, even if proper running / rucking (using nasal breathing) is hard to beat though.

2/
10 x (Hill sprint + 50 push ups)

I did the push ups right after the sprint, then rested as necessary to get a max sprint quality.

This lasted less than 30 minutes

I am not saying that Tyson, Walker, Bronson, etc... are not training optimally, there are value in their training. However, high rep training that way:
- transfer less to max strength than the other way around
- close to max strength training (using GTG or ladder) maintains / increase (up to a point) endurance and stamina as a by product
- CrossFit / CrossTraining has value. This is something I practice regularly, but with nasal breathing. CF guys (and I guess spec ops guy during selection) have a high attrition rate due to unsustainability of this kind of routine.

Basically, this kind of routine (assuming you go for bodyweight) seems to be a more "profitable" option
This article claims for something like "escalating density". Plus, this is super easy to make it "cell-compatible" (hotel room...)

As far as movement selection, something like:
- A hard variation of push (OAP, etc..)
- A hard variation of pull (weighted pull up / uneven pull up)
- A squat (pistol progression)
- Single leg deadlift (I enjoy them with thick resistance band)

5 to 7 minutes of each, daily. This is doable anywhere anytime. On the top of that, LSD running / rucking / swimming can get you covered for everyday life. If running is not possible, aerobic burpee (How to Train Against a Virus | StrongFirst)

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Hello,

@LvlUpStr
Ultra high repetition training is what I did for quite some time, with good results, I have to admit it. I used this strategy for squats, push ups and pull ups.

Tyson or Herschel Walker or often showed as super strong (which is true), but they are also genetic freak. This kind of training has value to a certain extent, but up to a point you reach a diminishing return point. It just becomes a work ethic and discipline, but does not really provides any value.

Now, I mostly train with lower reps (ladder of 3), but harder variations. I use both kb C&P (in my main routine in the morning) and OAP / OAOL PU + Pistol during the day (GTG). At home, mostly GTG pull ups (sets of 10) each time I am under the bar, which is quite often.

This is way more efficient.

Recently, I did two things which surprised me:

1/
The "Murph" WOD using 10kg weight:
- 1 mile run (actually, I did 2km as I rounded the conversion mile / km)
- 100 pull ups
- 200 push ups
- 300 squats
- 1 mile run

As I was in the woods, I used old judo belts for pull ups (which makes them way harder comparing to rings or pull up bar).

If we consider push ups and squats, low rep (ladder) StrongFirst-ish style of training delivers. Hitting the push ups and squats took me roughly 15-20 minutes...

Grip and blisters were the toughest thing with the pull ups actually.

Cardio conditioning is greatly secured with A+A training. When in quarantine, I only ran S&S. I only lost 15 minutes to my 15km trail in 3 months. The aerobic base is easily maintained that way, even if proper running / rucking (using nasal breathing) is hard to beat though.

2/
10 x (Hill sprint + 50 push ups)

I did the push ups right after the sprint, then rested as necessary to get a max sprint quality.

This lasted less than 30 minutes

I am not saying that Tyson, Walker, Bronson, etc... are not training optimally, there are value in their training. However, high rep training that way:
- transfer less to max strength than the other way around
- close to max strength training (using GTG or ladder) maintains / increase (up to a point) endurance and stamina as a by product
- CrossFit / CrossTraining has value. This is something I practice regularly, but with nasal breathing. CF guys (and I guess spec ops guy during selection) have a high attrition rate due to unsustainability of this kind of routine.

Basically, this kind of routine (assuming you go for bodyweight) seems to be a more "profitable" option
This article claims for something like "escalating density". Plus, this is super easy to make it "cell-compatible" (hotel room...)

As far as movement selection, something like:
- A hard variation of push (OAP, etc..)
- A hard variation of pull (weighted pull up / uneven pull up)
- A squat (pistol progression)
- Single leg deadlift (I enjoy them with thick resistance band)

5 to 7 minutes of each, daily. This is doable anywhere anytime. On the top of that, LSD running / rucking / swimming can get you covered for everyday life. If running is not possible, aerobic burpee (How to Train Against a Virus | StrongFirst)

Kind regards,

Pet'

Thank you, mate.

I have noticed a few calisthenics YouTubers doing the standard bodybuilding 4x10 set and rep range on the rings.
What are your thoughts on doing time under tension work with more advanced progressions rather than doing repetitions on the rings?
Would isometric and TUT training would build more strength than repetitions?
 
Hello,

I have noticed a few calisthenics YouTubers doing the standard bodybuilding 4x10 set and rep range on the rings.
It will depend on the goal. If you want to build muscle, performing 3-6 sets of 8-12 reps with a variation which allow you to be in this rep range, with a "regular" pace (1111) and perfect form, this is the most traditional way to do it.

What are your thoughts on doing time under tension work with more advanced progressions rather than doing repetitions on the rings?
Rings add difficulty due to the instability. As long as you still perform the move safely, there is no issue.

However, the more you have to deal with instability, the less you can focus on heavier weight / harder variation. This is the exact same logic with pistol squat and weighted squat (no matter the variation): You will always build more muscle / mass using back & front squat than pistol (even weighted pistol). This is due to the load you can put on the muscle, by simply putting stability out of the equation.

That being said, I do not say that when you have to deal with stability, you do not build muscle. You will obviously will due to the stabilizer. Nonetheless, I am not sure this is "optimal". Gymnasts have huge amount of muscle mass. However, this is built over years

If I'd want to put on mass using bodyweight only, I do slightly harder variation, with a controlled eccentric (up to 3s), but would not use ring. For instance, a OA push up with a slow eccentric. I guess this method would be faster than ring training.

Eventually, putting on size and muscle also depends on calorie intake.

Would isometric and TUT training would build more strength than repetitions?
If we are talking about "regular repetitions" prison-style training, then I think TUT + iso will be more time-efficient.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Hello,


It will depend on the goal. If you want to build muscle, performing 3-6 sets of 8-12 reps with a variation which allow you to be in this rep range, with a "regular" pace (1111) and perfect form, this is the most traditional way to do it.


Rings add difficulty due to the instability. As long as you still perform the move safely, there is no issue.

However, the more you have to deal with instability, the less you can focus on heavier weight / harder variation. This is the exact same logic with pistol squat and weighted squat (no matter the variation): You will always build more muscle / mass using back & front squat than pistol (even weighted pistol). This is due to the load you can put on the muscle, by simply putting stability out of the equation.

That being said, I do not say that when you have to deal with stability, you do not build muscle. You will obviously will due to the stabilizer. Nonetheless, I am not sure this is "optimal". Gymnasts have huge amount of muscle mass. However, this is built over years

If I'd want to put on mass using bodyweight only, I do slightly harder variation, with a controlled eccentric (up to 3s), but would not use ring. For instance, a OA push up with a slow eccentric. I guess this method would be faster than ring training.

Eventually, putting on size and muscle also depends on calorie intake.


If we are talking about "regular repetitions" prison-style training, then I think TUT + iso will be more time-efficient.

Kind regards,

Pet'

Hey, mate.

Currently, I am at 207lbs and 6'1. I am taller than most gymnasts and I have long arms and levers.
After a long power building bulk from 180lbs to 225lbs, I am now focusing on cutting and I am also becoming more agile from the boxing workouts.

Today, I did the following workout for the chest and triceps.


Ring Fly510
Ring Archer510
RTO Ring Push-Ups510
Rings Turned Out Push-ups510
Hindu Ring Push-ups510
Ring Dips1010

To finish off, I did a back lever, inverse hold, and a front lever.
I also did 7 rounds of boxing training and two 10-minute runs, I would say I worked out for 90 to 120 minutes.

What about focusing on traditional repetitions and high volume at the start of the week and switching the focus to isometrics and time under tension at the end of the week?
 
Hello,

I guess it would depends on the goal. Indeed, you mentioned:
After a long power building bulk from 180lbs to 225lbs, I am now focusing on cutting and I am also becoming more agile from the boxing workouts.

However, performing the kind of routine you mentioned is more muscle mass oriented. If you do not eat in a calorie surplus, this does not seems optimal for neither maximize your strength or your hypertrophy.

So, do you want to gain strength ? or gain mass ?

It would also depends on the number of boxing sessions you do. I also practice boxing 2-3x a week. (currently this is holidays / corrona-holidays...). If sessions are grueling, I would not go for more than 3 sessions a week.

So, if you want to be strong, without adding mass:
- 3x5 sets of 3x5 reps, 3-5 minutes rest between sets.
- big compounds: press (cycle through OAP / OAOL PU / HSPU), leg (if bodyweight, it will be pistol progressions), pull (pull up, including weighted), core (cycle though HLR, HLR with twist, HS plank / Hollow body).
- Before each session, do 3 to 5 sets of 3 to 5 rep of explosive moves (clap push ups, jump squat, explosive pull ups) (I got this from Ross Edgley). It will be beneficial for boxing and daily life in general

What about focusing on traditional repetitions and high volume at the start of the week and switching the focus to isometrics and time under tension at the end of the week?
If 3 sessions is what you choose doing, then ABA BAB between what I mentioned (provided you look for strength) and traditional high reps may be worth trying.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Hello,

I guess it would depends on the goal. Indeed, you mentioned:


However, performing the kind of routine you mentioned is more muscle mass oriented. If you do not eat in a calorie surplus, this does not seems optimal for neither maximize your strength or your hypertrophy.

So, do you want to gain strength ? or gain mass ?

It would also depends on the number of boxing sessions you do. I also practice boxing 2-3x a week. (currently this is holidays / corrona-holidays...). If sessions are grueling, I would not go for more than 3 sessions a week.

So, if you want to be strong, without adding mass:
- 3x5 sets of 3x5 reps, 3-5 minutes rest between sets.
- big compounds: press (cycle through OAP / OAOL PU / HSPU), leg (if bodyweight, it will be pistol progressions), pull (pull up, including weighted), core (cycle though HLR, HLR with twist, HS plank / Hollow body).
- Before each session, do 3 to 5 sets of 3 to 5 rep of explosive moves (clap push ups, jump squat, explosive pull ups) (I got this from Ross Edgley). It will be beneficial for boxing and daily life in general


If 3 sessions is what you choose doing, then ABA BAB between what I mentioned (provided you look for strength) and traditional high reps may be worth trying.

Kind regards,

Pet'

I am focusing on recomposition while developing both strength and technique on the rings.

For short bout exercise duration, I do sprints, agility ladder drills, twice a week.

I don't have access to weights but I will switch to a 5x5 routine once I have access to a gym. I have a belt with a 36" heavy-duty chain specifically designed for weighted calisthenics and pull-ups.

For the workout so far, I have written this.

Ring Training
A
Ring Fly55
Ring Archer55
Rings Turned Out Push-ups55
HSPU55
Ring Dips55
B
Ring Pull-ups55
Ring Chin-ups55
Stagger Chin-ups55
Behind the Neck Pull-Ups55
Archer Pull-ups55
Skill work: Choose a Skill
One Arm Pushup
Planche Practice
Handstand Practice
Lever Practice
Muscle Up Practice

How is this for the plyometrics workout?

PlyometricsSetsReps
Plyo Pushup15
Sprawl Pushup15
Squat Thruster15
Kneeling Jump Squat15
Reverse Lunge Knee up15

Kind regards.
 
Hello,

I am focusing on recomposition while developing both strength and technique on the rings.
If body recomposition is the goal - meaning losing fat mass and trying to maintain lean mass - then I would necessarily tackle an hypertrophy-like routine.

Nonetheless, there is always a solution !

You could take inspiration from the following article:

Or even this one, from D. John

Basically, you could use ladders (as mentioned in D. John's article), with big compounds of carefully selected bodyweight exercises.

As far as the exercises selection goes, if you want to make things simple, you can get inspiration using the progressions listed in Convict Conditioning (I would choose pull up over chin up though).

So you end up with: ladders of Convict Conditioning exercises. You can do this 3x a week. This will give you plenty of strength. Strength easily transfers to endurance so you get the "best of both worlds. Assuming you control the calorie, and assuming you get the boxing as your cardio, you will have a nice and sweet body recomposition.

How is this for the plyometrics workout?
I like it.

I would just add an explosive pull (row, pull up)

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
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