all posts post new thread

Kettlebell I failed a Turkish Get Up and broke my wrist

Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
Kind of playing devil's advocate here to keep this thread going as it's a very interesting topic...thanks once again to the original poster for sharing.

Alot of people talking about diminishing returns and increasing risk once you reach 32kg (as a male). I would suggest that we remember that heavy is relative to the individual. I don't buy the fast that 32 is safe but the 40 or 48kg bell means you are playing with your life.

Admittedly the weight being over your head makes this move more risky than a swing but I'm not sure about you guys but I don't fancy my head's chances against the 32, let alone the 24kg bell. Any weight coming down from a height is bad news.

With regards to diminishing returns, again I'm not sure I buy that. A light getup with a submax weight is an excellent tool to improve mobility and shoulder stability but nothing ties the whole body together like a heavy getup. A 24kg slow and controlled getup is not even in the same league as a 48kg getup in terms of the strength and stability required. I've tried sandbag Getups too which I really liked but again, not really the same for me.

I can't remember when or where I heard this but the quality of an exercise can be determined by the carry over it has to other movements.

E.g a leg extension doesn't improve a squat but a squat improves a leg extension. Squat is therefore a winner.

The same rule I feel applies here even if we just zoom in and look at the shoulders. The getup improves the press but the press doesn't really improve the getup.

I'm not sure, just some thoughts I had.
 
Aaron17 said:
but nothing ties the whole body together like a heavy getup.
Click to expand...

Meh....heavy TGUs are so-so for total systemic impact.

Barbell deadlifts, barbell squats, farmer's walks are proven muscle makers outside of KB-land.

These give me far more of a systemic hit (they're a helluva a lot heavier) and pack on more muscle for me than TGUs.

Unless by "tie the whole body together", you just mean proprioception.
 
Last edited:
Aaron17 said:
The same rule I feel applies here even if we just zoom in and look at the shoulders. The getup improves the press but the press doesn't really improve the getup.
Click to expand...

Get-ups did nothing for my press. Even when I could do get-ups with the 32 with no problem (even within the "time standards").

I´ve had my best pressing progress when pressing once a week, doing 531. I'm not sure about the exact numbers but I got to a 0.8 % bw press. Stopped training after that for other reasons so I don't think that was my absolute max in terms of relative strength when it comes to the press.
 
Aaron17, As an instructor , what are your thoughts on using heavier bells for snatches and get-ups in regards to preparing for the SFG very?Any particular programming / plan you would recommend?
 
I also haven't seen much connection between my TGU and my press.

I tend to view the TGU as a preventative measure, as opposed to a strength/ability developer - you're building up resiliency, which enables you to do other things that build strength. The problem with preventative measures is that you have no way to prove that they are working - you can't definitively say, "such-and-such hasn't hurt me in such-and-such time, clearly it must be because of TGUs". It's almost a matter of faith.

You can, of course, definitively say that a bell fell on you and broke your wrist.

So, I get it - when faced with the choice between an unquantifyable benefit and a very real risk, wisdom may dictate avoiding the risk.

For me, I believe in the heavy getup.
 
What do you think is ”heavy”? Heavy in terms of what it will do to your face if you drop it? Heavy in terms of what is your max? Let say person A’s max is 100kg and person B’s max is 40kg. A does a get up with 40kg and B with 32kg. Which was ”heavier” get up in terms of this discussion? Safer?

I have done get ups with 36kg, and I know I could do it with 40kg+. However, I feel 32kg is what I will keep using and then progress in something else. That being said, had I stopped at 16 or even 24, I would have missed a lot.
 
Nacho said:
What do you think is ”heavy”? Heavy in terms of what it will do to your face if you drop it? Heavy in terms of what is your max? Let say person A’s max is 100kg and person B’s max is 40kg. A does a get up with 40kg and B with 32kg. Which was ”heavier” get up in terms of this discussion? Safer?

I have done get ups with 36kg, and I know I could do it with 40kg+. However, I feel 32kg is what I will keep using and then progress in something else. That being said, had I stopped at 16 or even 24, I would have missed a lot.
Click to expand...

It's really a physics problem.

As a total body load, 40 kg isn't that heavy when compared to barbells. That's basically an empty barbell + 2 x 10 kg plates.

So in order to make a 40 kg KB "hard" as a grind, you have to get into a lot of "difficult leverage" positions.

If you have access to a barbell, you have options that are more scalable, less technical, and probably less risky lifts than trying to use a 40 kg KB to do TGUs in difficult leverage positions to get equivalent loading.

Unless you just want to get good at heavy TGUs for their own sake.
 
Stefan Olsson said:
Get-ups did nothing for my press. Even when I could do get-ups with the 32 with no problem (even within the "time standards").

I´ve had my best pressing progress when pressing once a week, doing 531. I'm not sure about the exact numbers but I got to a 0.8 % bw press. Stopped training after that for other reasons so I don't think that was my absolute max in terms of relative strength when it comes to the press.
Click to expand...
Shoulder issues 8 months out from my SFG II recert. I did not press or snatch or 1h swing during that time. I did do Q&D 015. When recert time came my strength test and snatch test were WTH easy.

During that time I did do GU's with a 24 and 32 and 50% of time push ups with 015 were done with feet on 75cm swiss ball.
 
Last edited:
Nacho said:
What do you think is ”heavy”? Heavy in terms of what it will do to your face if you drop it? Heavy in terms of what is your max? Let say person A’s max is 100kg and person B’s max is 40kg. A does a get up with 40kg and B with 32kg. Which was ”heavier” get up in terms of this discussion? Safer?
Click to expand...

Since we're basically talking about risk/reward ratio now, I think "heavy" is in terms of recovery cost. Is it a warm up? Is it an accessory lift, where you'll do a set of 10 before/after some other training? Is it something where you are pushing your abilities/tolerances and probably can't safely do more than a couple a day? That last one is what I'd call heavy.

Truth is, the actual weight of "heavy" is different for each person, and even a warm up TGU can do damage if worse comes to worse.

Nacho said:
I have done get ups with 36kg, and I know I could do it with 40kg+. However, I feel 32kg is what I will keep using and then progress in something else. That being said, had I stopped at 16 or even 24, I would have missed a lot.
Click to expand...

I think that's a great attitude. And who knows, you keep at it for a few years, maybe that 32 will start feeling so light that the 36 becomes your accessory lift weight.
 
For me, the getup is a "toughener." It simply makes me more durable and helps me grind. I don't care what it does for numbers, the getup definitely helps "pin my ears back."

Last year, just before turning 56, I hit a 48kg getup out of the blue just after PR'ing with the 44kg. I cannot think of any scenario where I will attempt a >32kg getup.....OK, maybe a 36.....well, 40 still isn't out of the question. But just one!
 
WxHerk said:
For me, the getup is a "toughener." It simply makes me more durable and helps me grind. I don't care what it does for numbers, the getup definitely helps "pin my ears back."

Last year, just before turning 56, I hit a 48kg getup out of the blue just after PR'ing with the 44kg. I cannot think of any scenario where I will attempt a >32kg getup.....OK, maybe a 36.....well, 40 still isn't out of the question. But just one!
Click to expand...
What work out are you doing for your 57th?
 
Don Fairbanks said:
Shoulder issues 8 months out from my SFG II recert. I did not press or snatch or 1h swing during that time. I did do Q&D 015. When recert time came my strength test and snatch test were WTH easy.

During that time I did do GU's with a 24 and 32 and 50% of time push ups with 015 were done with feet on 75cm swiss ball.
Click to expand...


Ok?
 
watchnerd said:
It's really a physics problem.

As a total body load, 40 kg isn't that heavy when compared to barbells. That's basically an empty barbell + 2 x 10 kg plates.

So in order to make a 40 kg KB "hard" as a grind, you have to get into a lot of "difficult leverage" positions.

If you have access to a barbell, you have options that are more scalable, less technical, and probably less risky lifts than trying to use a 40 kg KB to do TGUs in difficult leverage positions to get equivalent loading.

Unless you just want to get good at heavy TGUs for their own sake.
Click to expand...

All this is absolutely true... I would just say that, in my mind, the point of the TGU isn't to find a way to make a relatively light load difficult. Rather, it's to attack those difficult leverage positions you mention, improve strength at funny angles. It's the old "firing a cannon out of a canoe" thing - the TGU isn't building the cannon, it's building a solid platform to fire the cannon from. You gotta go somewhere else to build the cannon.

And, I think the bigger the cannon you want to fire, the bigger base you need. Heavy TGUs obviously aren't the only path to get there, of course, and in many cases they may not even be the optimal path. But they're a path. Serious lifters don't just do their competition lifts all the time, they do a lot of accessory work to build the platform.

Slightly unrelated note... this is what always frustrates me when people have the mindset "I just want to get Simple, I'll never need anything more than that." With Simple, you've build a lovely platform... but where's the cannon? Roll some heavy steel on to that sucker...
 
watchnerd said:
Ditto when it comes to TGU not really helping press.

Aside from pressing itself, push ups (ring, decline) helped my press more.
Click to expand...
As I've mentioned, I think the TGU "helps" the press up to about 24 (maybe 28....don't have one of those so I can't say), but beyond those "newbie gainzzz" it probably doesn't help much, at least in my case.

That said, I LOVE the getup. It's by far my favorite kettlebell lift. The meditative flow, the time under tension, it all just seems like as @WxHerk said to be a "toughener" that ties all my strength together into a cohesive whole, in much the same way as heavy unilateral carries do.
 
WhatWouldHulkDo said:
And, I think the bigger the cannon you want to fire, the bigger base you need. Heavy TGUs obviously aren't the only path to get there, of course, and in many cases they may not even be the optimal path. But they're a path. Serious lifters don't just do their competition lifts all the time, they do a lot of accessory work to build the platform.

Slightly unrelated note... this is what always frustrates me when people have the mindset "I just want to get Simple, I'll never need anything more than that." With Simple, you've build a lovely platform... but where's the cannon? Roll some heavy steel on to that sucker...
Click to expand...
I think this is key...S&S isn't designed to be anything more than what it is, which is GPP. Beyond that it really depends on your goal. If your goal is strength by any means, even Pavel says (I think in EtK?...Or maybe PttP?) that the most "optimal" path to raw strength is the barbell, and I don't think anyone could argue with that.

And just Simple is fine...depending on your goal. If I want to play with my grandkids on the weekend, then fine, maintaining Simple is great. But I agree with you (and Socrates): “No man has the right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training. It is a shame for a man to grow old without seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable.”
 
I'm sorry to hear that! I broke my wrist in 2016 after taking a fall from an improper jump...the same situation, a foosh. Furthermore, the ulna was broken and the actual joint was dislocated. Suffice it to say I messed up everything from my elbow down pretty bad.

If you're looking for anything regarding physical therapy, I would do as much "soft" yet repetitive work with the wrist as possible once the casts and braces are off. Washing dishes, painting, etc. will help. Power to you!
 
Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
Back
Top Bottom