all posts post new thread

Kettlebell Stuck with ETK and transitioning to 32kg

Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)

patrudaz

Level 2 Valued Member
Hi,

After initially starting out doing S&S for the first couple of years of kettlebell training and relatively easily achieving "Simple", I decided to take a step back and give myself a better foundation with ETK, since my pressing was not particularly impressive. So since the beginning of this year I started the ETK protocol, with a 24kg bell. After several months of 5 ladders with pull-ups and after 2 or 3 testing days, I was able to finally press the 32kg 3 times. So I thought it may be time to start doing ETK with the 32kg and started with singles and only 3 ladders, building up to 1,2,3 reps on my heavy day.

I was really happy with this progress as when I started the program, there was no way I could press the 32. But, I seem to have got stuck for the last couple of months , where 3 ladders of 1,2,3 seems to be my absolute max I can manage at the moment. The third set is a real struggle to get to 3 reps.

So my question is, should I revert to the 24kg and keep grinding with 5 ladders? Or should I persevere with the 32kg as I am? It is having a psychological impact on me when, on my heavy day, I may not be feeling up for it. Should I play around with number of reps, for example: 1,2,1 or 1,2,2 instead, in order to maintain a decent amount of volume?

FYI - I'm 52 and used to row at international level when younger. Even back then, I would not consider myself to have ever been on any proper strength regimen, although of course we used to do a lot of circuits and some heavy barbel lifting (cleans, squats mainly) but without proper instruction. I know how to push myself hard, but I am more interested in long term gains the right way rather than banging my head against a brick wall, if that makes sense?

Many thanks in advance for any advice or comments.
 
I like your idea of waving in a 32 on one of your press days. I also like the idea of you adding a 28 ( which you could press 5-8 x's ) to your collection. Yes, you could drop the 3 reps ( and the 2 ) with the 32 and perform 1 cln 1 press, set it down, shake it out, other side, continue until desired volume.
 
I like your idea of waving in a 32 on one of your press days. I also like the idea of you adding a 28 ( which you could press 5-8 x's ) to your collection. Yes, you could drop the 3 reps ( and the 2 ) with the 32 and perform 1 cln 1 press, set it down, shake it out, other side, continue until desired volume.

You might want to consider switching modalities for a while to achieve your goal while avoiding the psychological plateau.

For example, S+T has less dreaded volume than ETK. Another is ROTK... I just loved the LCCJ when I did it and it did improve my strict pressing.

Edit: Sorry... I meant to respond to the OP.
 
My opinion...

With the exception of testing, which is rare, I would not exceed 1/3 of your max. So if 3 reps with the 32 is max, I would just do 1 rep. Sprinkle in single reps of the 32 with your 24 press ladders. Build your 32kg volume with lots of singles!

Don't burn yourself out with volume. Especially if you are lifting 3or more times per week. Learn to stop the workout leaving a lot of gas still left in the tank. It is OK to push yourself hard for a month or 2 or 3, but most of the year should be more "park bench", not "bus bench".

Of course, eat hearty meals and sleep 8hr.

Also, if you are capable, start working in some double front squats with the 32 and 24, simultaneously. If 2 bells is too much just use the 32. Cleaning and front squatting the extra weight will carry over to your press. Believe me!

For example:

- Press 24kg 5 times, each arm
- Double Clean 24,32 once and squat 5 times
-Press 24 kg 5 times
- Double Clean 24,32 once and squat 5 times
-Press 24 kg 5 times
- Double Clean 24,32 once and squat 5 times

-3 pull ups
-1 press 32
-4 pull ups
-1 press 32
-3 pull ups
-1 press 32
-5 pull ups
-1 press 32
-3 pull ups
-1press 32


Eric
 
Hi,

After initially starting out doing S&S for the first couple of years of kettlebell training and relatively easily achieving "Simple", I decided to take a step back and give myself a better foundation with ETK, since my pressing was not particularly impressive. So since the beginning of this year I started the ETK protocol, with a 24kg bell. After several months of 5 ladders with pull-ups and after 2 or 3 testing days, I was able to finally press the 32kg 3 times. So I thought it may be time to start doing ETK with the 32kg and started with singles and only 3 ladders, building up to 1,2,3 reps on my heavy day.

I was really happy with this progress as when I started the program, there was no way I could press the 32. But, I seem to have got stuck for the last couple of months , where 3 ladders of 1,2,3 seems to be my absolute max I can manage at the moment. The third set is a real struggle to get to 3 reps.

So my question is, should I revert to the 24kg and keep grinding with 5 ladders? Or should I persevere with the 32kg as I am? It is having a psychological impact on me when, on my heavy day, I may not be feeling up for it. Should I play around with number of reps, for example: 1,2,1 or 1,2,2 instead, in order to maintain a decent amount of volume?

FYI - I'm 52 and used to row at international level when younger. Even back then, I would not consider myself to have ever been on any proper strength regimen, although of course we used to do a lot of circuits and some heavy barbel lifting (cleans, squats mainly) but without proper instruction. I know how to push myself hard, but I am more interested in long term gains the right way rather than banging my head against a brick wall, if that makes sense?

Many thanks in advance for any advice or comments.
There are two guidelines in the book that might be of assistance: first, to carry out ROP you should be able to press the bell 5-8 times. Second, you should not be grinding reps. By your description, your third rep ir the 1-3 ladders is definitively a grind.

The program is already demanding with an 8 RM... can't imagine attempting with a 3 RM.

You could consider doing the program with the 24 and using the 32 for singles only. Alternatively, you could buy a 28, as suggested by @Don Fairbanks . I love my 28, my favorite bell. Very useful for snatches and doubles with the 24 as well.

I would strongly advice you to stop doing ROP with a 3 RM. You are basically doing 1-2-3 ladders to failure repetitively, which is no good in any way.
 
Last edited:
I can not remember where it was written, but Pavel also had a higher rep ladder option if heavier bells weren't available. (2,3,5,10 maybe?) Makes sense to me to try that with the 24kg before testing the 32kg again.

Can anyone help me with a link?
 
Last edited:
Hi,

After initially starting out doing S&S for the first couple of years of kettlebell training and relatively easily achieving "Simple", I decided to take a step back and give myself a better foundation with ETK, since my pressing was not particularly impressive. So since the beginning of this year I started the ETK protocol, with a 24kg bell. After several months of 5 ladders with pull-ups and after 2 or 3 testing days, I was able to finally press the 32kg 3 times. So I thought it may be time to start doing ETK with the 32kg and started with singles and only 3 ladders, building up to 1,2,3 reps on my heavy day.

I was really happy with this progress as when I started the program, there was no way I could press the 32. But, I seem to have got stuck for the last couple of months , where 3 ladders of 1,2,3 seems to be my absolute max I can manage at the moment. The third set is a real struggle to get to 3 reps.

So my question is, should I revert to the 24kg and keep grinding with 5 ladders? Or should I persevere with the 32kg as I am? It is having a psychological impact on me when, on my heavy day, I may not be feeling up for it. Should I play around with number of reps, for example: 1,2,1 or 1,2,2 instead, in order to maintain a decent amount of volume?

FYI - I'm 52 and used to row at international level when younger. Even back then, I would not consider myself to have ever been on any proper strength regimen, although of course we used to do a lot of circuits and some heavy barbel lifting (cleans, squats mainly) but without proper instruction. I know how to push myself hard, but I am more interested in long term gains the right way rather than banging my head against a brick wall, if that makes sense?

Many thanks in advance for any advice or comments.
First, congratulations with your commitment and success with ETK/ROP.

Looks like you’ve paid your dues to the program. You might consider doing a different approach now. Apart from the mentioned Soju & Tuba program, there are others on the SF blog. In fact, the whole ‘press’ tag is full of great reads. And it’s been a while since we saw similar ones lately. A couple of examples:





BTW did you do the snatch part too?
 
Wow! So many useful suggestions. Thank you all very much for all of your responses. I need to work out what some of the acronyms mean, but that’s all very encouraging. I will go back to the 24kg mostly but sprinkle in some of the suggestions here with the benefit of more variety to keep things interesting.

Thanks again! I will let you know how I get on.
 
You might want to consider switching modalities for a while to achieve your goal while avoiding the psychological plateau.

For example, S+T has less dreaded volume than ETK. Another is ROTK... I just loved the LCCJ when I did it and it did improve my strict pressing.

Edit: Sorry... I meant to respond to the OP.
Thank you. What is S+T? And what is LCCJ?
 
I can not remember where it was written, but Pavel also had a higher rep ladder option if heavier bells weren't available. (2,3,5,10 maybe?) Makes sense to me to try that with the 24kg before testing the 32kg again.

Can anyone help me with a link?
Thank you, yes good point. I thought it was in the [ETK] book, but having sped read it just now, couldn't find it.
 
First, congratulations with your commitment and success with ETK/ROP.

Looks like you’ve paid your dues to the program. You might consider doing a different approach now. Apart from the mentioned Soju & Tuba program, there are others on the SF blog. In fact, the whole ‘press’ tag is full of great reads. And it’s been a while since we saw similar ones lately. A couple of examples:





BTW did you do the snatch part too?
Thank you. Yes been doing the snatch part too and have made progress there
 
To me, ROP is a press building SPP plan. I always like coming back with a general GPP strength plan. Alternate GPP with SPP. Otherwise I end up hitting a wall and plateau. Something to consider.
Thanks. What does GPP and SPP stand for? Please excuse my ignorance.
 
My opinion...

With the exception of testing, which is rare, I would not exceed 1/3 of your max. So if 3 reps with the 32 is max, I would just do 1 rep. Sprinkle in single reps of the 32 with your 24 press ladders. Build your 32kg volume with lots of singles!

Don't burn yourself out with volume. Especially if you are lifting 3or more times per week. Learn to stop the workout leaving a lot of gas still left in the tank. It is OK to push yourself hard for a month or 2 or 3, but most of the year should be more "park bench", not "bus bench".

Of course, eat hearty meals and sleep 8hr.

Also, if you are capable, start working in some double front squats with the 32 and 24, simultaneously. If 2 bells is too much just use the 32. Cleaning and front squatting the extra weight will carry over to your press. Believe me!

For example:

- Press 24kg 5 times, each arm
- Double Clean 24,32 once and squat 5 times
-Press 24 kg 5 times
- Double Clean 24,32 once and squat 5 times
-Press 24 kg 5 times
- Double Clean 24,32 once and squat 5 times

-3 pull ups
-1 press 32
-4 pull ups
-1 press 32
-3 pull ups
-1 press 32
-5 pull ups
-1 press 32
-3 pull ups
-1press 32


Eric
Thank you, I'll incorporate some of those, perhaps into variety days?
 
Thank you. What is S+T? And what is LCCJ?

My apologies:

S+T: Soju & Tuba... It is a program that works for presses as well as some other lifts, I think.

LCCJ: Long Cycle Clean and Jerk... It is done with double kettlebells in ROTK

ROTK: Pavel's Return of the Kettlebell... It is suggested after reaching Sinister standard of Simple and Sinister. I did it, however, a while back with lower weights before even reaching Simple standard, which I only achieved earlier this month.

Edit: I achieved Timeless Simple, not Timed, and with sandbag getups.
 
Last edited:
My apologies:

S+T: Soju & Tuba... It is a program that works for presses as well as some other lifts, I think.

LCCJ: Long Cycle Clean and Jerk... It is done with double kettlebells in ROTK

ROTK: Pavel's Return of the Kettlebell... It is suggested after reaching Sinister standard of Simple and Sinister. I did it, however, a while back with lower weights before even reaching Simple standard, which I only achieved earlier this month.
Ah yes, thank you!
 
Pavel also had a higher rep ladder option if heavier bells weren't available.
I thought it was in the [ETK] book, but having sped read it just now, couldn't find it.

I found it.

It was in ROTK

The first recommendation was to switch to ladders of (2,3,5) working up to 10 total ladders.

The second option was (2,3,5,10) up to 5 ladders
 
Thanks. What does GPP and SPP stand for? Please excuse my ignorance.

GPP is general physical preparedness and SPP is specific physical preparedness, I think. By GPP, I mean a lower stress general strength building phase that focuses on general strength. By SPP I mean a specific program that focuses on 1 thing like the press (ROP is very specific) or a competition. Sometimes SPP can be so specific and more demanding that one sacrifices health for fitness, or the goal. SPP is unbalanced, purposely. One can make tremendous, short-term, progress on a SPP plan: However, it is not sustainable, long term (typically). I am generalizing, a lot, in this paragraph. In ETK, the PM would be GPP while ROP would be SPP.

I dont think the ROP is a program where one is supposed to stay at for too long. I think the intent is to to it for a couple/few months and then move on. I may be wrong about this.
 
Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
Back
Top Bottom