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Barbell Why can't I get stronger in my squat and deadlift? Please help.

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That is exactly what I am recommending. Starting at 150kg and upping tbr weight every single session. If you are fortunate enough to have micro plates then your increments can be smaller and this will be maintainable for a longer period of time.

Zero back off sets. Just enough reps to warm up with before attempting your new max for the day.

Because of the high levels of intensity and frequency the last thing we want is to add unnecessary, junk volume. This is a specialization program. You have all the muscle needed to hit those numbers. I repeat YOU HAVE ALL THE MUSCLE NEEDED TO HIT THOSE NUMBERS. All this is going to do is get you good at maxing. You will become neurologically primed to hitting 200kg in the squat and deadlift.

All my biggest lifts were acheived after hitting specialization phases. Everything from 200kg zercher deadlift, to 180kg bench all the way to 300kg conventional/sumo and 400kg high handle trap bar.

Disclaimer. After you finish the specialisation process and move on with your training in another direction you won't be as strong in the lift you previously specialised in. For example when I went back to the zercher deadlift I started at 140/150kg. However my previous starting point was 90kg when I first did my zercher deadlift specialization. So the new strength "starting point" is already MUCH higher and I bet next time I coke round to doing zercher deadlifts I'll finish at around 220kg.

Just some food for thought. Oncd you've hit a major mile stone in the squat or deadlift you develop a new level of confidence that allows you to do better in your rep work.

The mindset starts to spill over into other aspects of performance outside of 1RM in specific lifts.
Hey man!

Thank you so much for your time and giving me this advice of yours!! Very informative!

I am bit curious, why do people do sets? I've always wondered .. ( stupid question )?
I mean, if you hit an all time high squat for the day, you barely make it.. Why would I decrease 10kg ish afterwards and do 8 sets of 2s/3s?

Is this to hard to answer? or is there actually no answer to it?
I've always done alot of sets.. 5+ and yea, as we know.. I don't progress.

Since I weightlift (olympic) I will follow your advice on just light lifts combined with these squat/deadlift progressing, but.. What about CLEAN Deadlift, it's more legs.. Should I also stick to just 1 heavy and done for the day? As I do want to pull 200kg there aswell.

Thank you so much!
 
Hey man!

Thank you so much for your time and giving me this advice of yours!! Very informative!

I am bit curious, why do people do sets? I've always wondered .. ( stupid question )?
I mean, if you hit an all time high squat for the day, you barely make it.. Why would I decrease 10kg ish afterwards and do 8 sets of 2s/3s?

Is this to hard to answer? or is there actually no answer to it?
I've always done alot of sets.. 5+ and yea, as we know.. I don't progress.

Since I weightlift (olympic) I will follow your advice on just light lifts combined with these squat/deadlift progressing, but.. What about CLEAN Deadlift, it's more legs.. Should I also stick to just 1 heavy and done for the day? As I do want to pull 200kg there aswell.

Thank you so much!
Great question.

Well normally you would be focusing on building as WIDE a strength base as possible. So using a metaphorical pyramid. You want to make the base as wide as possible...so you can make your pyramid as high as possible.

Sounds to me like you've dedicated a good chunk of time to building that base and if you keep going you WILL hit the 200kg squat and deadlift EVENTUALLY. I have no doubt.

However your body has gotten very used to doing a TON of volume and variation. How much MORE volume and variation do you need to implement to override the biological law of accommodation?

Well, how long is a piece of string?

Or we swap for a high specificity, high intensity and high frequency approach. Light competition lifts to maintain a level of skill proficiency and ensure your strength doesn't drop too much during this time (as the long term goal is a big snatch and C&J). As well as your pre/rehab exercises.

These are done as giant sets to bang the work out fast and get you out of the gym. Eating, stretching, relaxing, sleeping and getting prepared for the next session.

My advice regarding clean pulls is this. Focus on your back squat and deadlifts. When your deadlifts stall for 2 sessions then take the rest of the week off deadlifts and the next week swap the deadlifts for clean pulls. Start them off 10/20kg lighter than their last tested max and do them everyday after your squats. Using the same progression as your squats.

That way you can continously progress your strength, in something. Always.

When your squat stalls then swap them out for front squats. When they stall then paused back squats. When they stall then paused front squats. When they stall back to squats and watch you finish with a higher squat than what you had last time.
 
Great question.

Well normally you would be focusing on building as WIDE a strength base as possible. So using a metaphorical pyramid. You want to make the base as wide as possible...so you can make your pyramid as high as possible.

Sounds to me like you've dedicated a good chunk of time to building that base and if you keep going you WILL hit the 200kg squat and deadlift EVENTUALLY. I have no doubt.

However your body has gotten very used to doing a TON of volume and variation. How much MORE volume and variation do you need to implement to override the biological law of accommodation?

Well, how long is a piece of string?

Or we swap for a high specificity, high intensity and high frequency approach. Light competition lifts to maintain a level of skill proficiency and ensure your strength doesn't drop too much during this time (as the long term goal is a big snatch and C&J). As well as your pre/rehab exercises.

These are done as giant sets to bang the work out fast and get you out of the gym. Eating, stretching, relaxing, sleeping and getting prepared for the next session.

My advice regarding clean pulls is this. Focus on your back squat and deadlifts. When your deadlifts stall for 2 sessions then take the rest of the week off deadlifts and the next week swap the deadlifts for clean pulls. Start them off 10/20kg lighter than their last tested max and do them everyday after your squats. Using the same progression as your squats.

That way you can continously progress your strength, in something. Always.

When your squat stalls then swap them out for front squats. When they stall then paused back squats. When they stall then paused front squats. When they stall back to squats and watch you finish with a higher squat than what you had last time.
Such informative post you have given me! It's almost to good to be true. I am forever grateful, I have been in a slump for sooooo long, and I refuse to give up. But it's so hard that I get headaches thinkin about it nowadays, cuz I want it so bad but I never ever get it.
Thank you!

When you mean Giant "sets" its just one set you're talking about? also.. When you mention "Stall" for 2 sess, it's when I can't progress? so if I fail to progress 2 sess in a row, I move on to the next exercise until I "stall" again?

Also when my deadlift stall and i go for Clean Pulls, I do them after squats or the next day?

I am so sorry for my questions, it's just, when I get informed something, I do it. And I don't want to be unsure of what I am told, so I ask 1 to many times ..
 
Thank you!

When you mean Giant "sets" its just one set you're talking about? also.. When you mention "Stall" for 2 sess, it's when I can't progress? so if I fail to progress 2 sess in a row, I move on to the next exercise until I "stall" again?

Also when my deadlift stall and i go for Clean Pulls, I do them after squats or the next day?

I am so sorry for my questions, it's just, when I get informed something, I do it. And I don't want to be unsure of what I am told, so I ask 1 to many times ..
No problem. This forum exists for people to help each other.

So a giant set as defined by Milos Sarcev is 3 or more lifts done back to back. So you would run through the list of lifts, that's one set. Rest long enough go catch your breath then repeat for the rep prescription for that week.

In regards to stalling. Yes. You've got it. If you stall for 2 sessions in a row take the rest of the week off for that week and then the next training week you rotate your next lift in. So Monday and Wednesday you stall your deadlifts. Take Friday off deadlifts and then Monday you do your clean pulls but because of the safer positioning you do them everyday after your squats. Same approach as your squats.

Do not apologise for asking questions. A good student has much to ask. A bad student has nothing to ask.
 
Hey again!

Yeah they do, and that's what freakin' me out because I don't really know their program, but it looks like theyre squatting everyday. But obviously they don't.

Yeah I always squat at 85-90%+ - 2-5 reps, 5-10 sets. I always tryna push the limits, but my body aint following my mind.. hehe..

I don't work right now, so I do have time, and I am commited.

I guess I just need a program to follow that will give me weight gains, because otherwise I will just keep working (to hard?) and never gain results because I always think ( working hard, gains ) but apperantly not.

As a weightlifter, I squat every day without fail.

I just don't always do it with a barbell or heavy.

I also just sit in ATG squats for time on a daily basis.

Even during competition prep, I don't squat 85-90% every day. I periodize my volume and intensity such that I'm working in the 85%+ range so that I hit new peaks right before competition (1-2 week before).

But during the 6 months competitive season, my squats may go as low as 60%, especially when I'm focusing more on getting my snatch or clean numbers up.

FWIW, my front squat 1RM PR is 157kg. I don't need it to be higher until I get my clean higher; standard Oly lifting ratio math says my clean should be about 140 kg, but it's below that, so there is no competitive advantage for me to jack up my squat so far beyond what I can clean.
 
I would advise you to practice according to the poddubny system with the addition of static exercises from yourself.
 
Here’s a crazy question that I sometimes ask myself -

Do I NEED to lift more to get a desired result/outcome or do I WANT to lift more for the sake lifting more weight?

Sometimes that answer is - No....for my life & my goals I’m good where I’m at for now. I’ve reached the point of diminishing returns. Time to change the focus and come back strong & fresh later.

Totally understands you have some big goals but maybe it’s worth exploring shifting your focus to another area of strength for quick reset.

Maybe swings, TGUs or carries?
 
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hmmm looks like you have good base of strength and have already have good technique at 70-90% 1RM range.

I echo Thanos, I mean Starlord's advice (but not about heavy metal). You need to practice with heavy weight for singles. 3s and 5s definately build strength but not always transfer to 1RM.

And also, I would like to see the lift that you fail the weight, or the clip at the weight you struggle. That would give more clue about where is your weakpoint in the squat.

For deadlift, I'm not so sure about hitting frequency every day. Mayble clean pull. Greg Nuckols also recommends clean dl instead of full deadlift if you want to do it every day (in his free Bulgarian method manual). Personally I get my jump from 150 kg to ugly 195 kg deadlift from power clean, squat and high pull.

And for winning your country' tournament you will need a good quality coach. Find one.
 
Just read through the entire thread and this is what it all comes down to - You need to hire a professional coach to get you to your goal.

Yep.

Having a big squat doesn't mean you have a big C&J or snatch.

I've been competing in weightlifting for 7 years and technique / mobility / speed pulling under the bar are still more of my limiting factor than raw strength. Even more so as I get older.
 
Yep.

Having a big squat doesn't mean you have a big C&J or snatch.

I've been competing in weightlifting for 7 years and technique / mobility / speed pulling under the bar are still more of my limiting factor than raw strength. Even more so as I get older.
I understood that @Mikeyboy had a year ago
Cj 135
Fsq 140
Sq 160
Dl 190

I see nothing wrong with that, like in Know Your Ratios, Destroy Weaknesses | T Nation

The back squat video is very weightlifting type. I don't know if there can be 15% difference to front SQ when squatting with that form, and so deep. Even Daniel Ståhl left his squat (too) high in insta.

Now that Mikey has developed front squat but stalls in powerlifts, maybe his back or hip is not developing like legs? I checked training week 1 again, and there's quite a lot of squatting and low back training. Maybe just take the foot off the gas for two weeks.

I agree that getting a coach would be best. Maybe join a weightlifting club? At least in Finland and powerlifting, you can't even sign up for nationals. Only a club can sign you up. I checked Finnish ranking and c&j is right up there in -73kg class. The results from last few years. But we are a weightlifting midget.
 
As a weightlifter, I squat every day without fail.

I just don't always do it with a barbell or heavy.

I also just sit in ATG squats for time on a daily basis.

Even during competition prep, I don't squat 85-90% every day. I periodize my volume and intensity such that I'm working in the 85%+ range so that I hit new peaks right before competition (1-2 week before).

But during the 6 months competitive season, my squats may go as low as 60%, especially when I'm focusing more on getting my snatch or clean numbers up.

FWIW, my front squat 1RM PR is 157kg. I don't need it to be higher until I get my clean higher; standard Oly lifting ratio math says my clean should be about 140 kg, but it's below that, so there is no competitive advantage for me to jack up my squat so far beyond what I can clean.
You squat everyday?

We have very similar front squat, as mine is 155 kg. What is your clean and jerk and snatch? If I may ask.
I havn't Cleaned and jerked since 140kg front squat PR, but I did 135kg then. Snatch 105/hook.
I would advise you to practice according to the poddubny system with the addition of static exercises from yourself.
I will check that out, thank you!!
Here’s a crazy question that I sometimes ask myself -

Do I NEED to lift more to get a desired result/outcome or do I WANT to lift more for the sake lifting more weight?

Sometimes that answer is - No....for my life & my goals I’m good where I’m at for now. I’ve reached the point of diminishing returns. Time to change the focus and come back strong & fresh later.

Totally understands you have some big goals but maybe it’s worth exploring shifting your focus to another area of strength for quick reset.

Maybe swings, TGUs or carries?
Thank you for your comment!
I will check these Swings,TGUs and carries out!
I agree, do I need to work harder? Maybe not, maybe my plan is wrong. But my goal remains, and I kinda refuse to give up or "rest" for a while.. Because I don't think it will help me, I've tried. I just need to try something new. I'd totally understand if I have progressed so much and I just recently came into a slump, but I've been there for 1 year+.
Just read through the entire thread and this is what it all comes down to - You need to hire a professional coach to get you to your goal.

All the best and welcome to the SF forum.
I don't really know one, and I am fine on my own with techniquewise until I do find a coach.. I just need proper brutal strengthening. I can't be squatting 160 and CJerking 150. Technique only takes me as far as it can.
hmmm looks like you have good base of strength and have already have good technique at 70-90% 1RM range.

I echo Thanos, I mean Starlord's advice (but not about heavy metal). You need to practice with heavy weight for singles. 3s and 5s definately build strength but not always transfer to 1RM.

And also, I would like to see the lift that you fail the weight, or the clip at the weight you struggle. That would give more clue about where is your weakpoint in the squat.

For deadlift, I'm not so sure about hitting frequency every day. Mayble clean pull. Greg Nuckols also recommends clean dl instead of full deadlift if you want to do it every day (in his free Bulgarian method manual). Personally I get my jump from 150 kg to ugly 195 kg deadlift from power clean, squat and high pull.

And for winning your country' tournament you will need a good quality coach. Find one.
Thank you for your compliment!!
When you mean singles, you also mean just 1 set and move on to another exercise? Wheather it's a 1rm,2rm,3rm?

Sure, I'll make sure to upload a video of my fails. It usually doesn't get stuck anywhere but simple fatigued. I am strong through the entire motion because I always squat ATG and slow squatting without ANY bounce. As soon as i put on 155-160kg, I just feel it right away, -this aint gonna work-. I know the feeling when im getting better and the weight feels "easier" and I finally overcome and will PR, but I havn't felt that in 1 year. Ofcourse my mindset is ALWAYS " I will make this " .. But, I know my body well enough that when it says, this is to heavy, it is.
Yep.

Having a big squat doesn't mean you have a big C&J or snatch.

I've been competing in weightlifting for 7 years and technique / mobility / speed pulling under the bar are still more of my limiting factor than raw strength. Even more so as I get older.
Absolutely agree!!
It's just, I've been practising speed, mobility for so long and it's fine (for now). I cleaned and jerked 135 kg with a 140 kg front squat PR. I was satisfied with that result, considering my squat strength, I tried 140kg but my legs were never able to stand up and I twisted my erector.
I understood that @Mikeyboy had a year ago
Cj 135
Fsq 140
Sq 160
Dl 190

I see nothing wrong with that, like in Know Your Ratios, Destroy Weaknesses | T Nation

The back squat video is very weightlifting type. I don't know if there can be 15% difference to front SQ when squatting with that form, and so deep. Even Daniel Ståhl left his squat (too) high in insta.

Now that Mikey has developed front squat but stalls in powerlifts, maybe his back or hip is not developing like legs? I checked training week 1 again, and there's quite a lot of squatting and low back training. Maybe just take the foot off the gas for two weeks.

I agree that getting a coach would be best. Maybe join a weightlifting club? At least in Finland and powerlifting, you can't even sign up for nationals. Only a club can sign you up. I checked Finnish ranking and c&j is right up there in -73kg class. The results from last few years. But we are a weightlifting midget.
Yes correct. My Frontsquat is currently 155kg and back 160kg. Very close to eachother.

Thank you, I do prefer technique -> Strength. But I do need strength now.

I'll check this club and coach thing out more if I can't get this right now with these advices, I have a hard time listening to coaches who tells me to do 5x5 squats, cuz I've tried it for years it feels like.

Only a club can sign you up here aswell, but. I am confident that if I lift the national record unofficial, they will take me in, they have before.
I will try add deadlift 3 times a week now and squat twice, with alot of accessories, such as: Speed, quick lifts, heavy trap pulls, SN-Grip Presses, etc etc.
 
I have a hard time listening to coaches who tells me to do 5x5 squats
I'm sure there are people who have other options also, but many times this also works. Just find the right.

Just to be clear powerlifting squat is low bar, just below parallel, many times it's sit back and use the hips. Very different from high bar atg squat. If you want big numbers you might have to change your technique.
 
I'm sure there are people who have other options also, but many times this also works. Just find the right.

Just to be clear powerlifting squat is low bar, just below parallel, many times it's sit back and use the hips. Very different from high bar atg squat. If you want big numbers you might have to change your technique.

Absolutely! It's just I don't have alot of options to choose from and I havn't really found a coach.

Im sure 5x5 works for some, just not me.

I want big numbers, absolutely.. But in a weightlifting way of doing it. I don't wanna use bad technique to achieve a high squat, I personally HATE powerlifting squats, it's not ideal for weightlifting. Though, I am always open to suggestions, thanks alot!
I'd prefer using my leg power and not doing a goodmorning squat.
 
For example:
Back raises, cable leg curls, pull ups, hanging knee raises, ab wheel 3/4/5×10. So each week you add another set to the giant set. Each lift is done for 10 reps per set. So you are still accumulating volume as your weights increase. But it is in lifts that are restorative in nature.
Hi again,
Is this a good way?
Example: (Monday) After Backsquat and Deadlift, I'd do, 10 Reps x3 set of pullups n back raises. On friday, I'd do 10 Reps x4 sets instead of 3?

Should I increase weight as I increase sets or do I keep the same weight but increase sets until I've reached 5 sets and repeat the process with new weight?

Thanks!!
 
Hi again,
Is this a good way?
Example: (Monday) After Backsquat and Deadlift, I'd do, 10 Reps x3 set of pullups n back raises. On friday, I'd do 10 Reps x4 sets instead of 3?

Should I increase weight as I increase sets or do I keep the same weight but increase sets until I've reached 5 sets and repeat the process with new weight?

Thanks!!
3 sets for week 1.
4 sets for week 2.
5 sets for week 3 etc.

Once you get to the top end of the prescribed sets you rinse and repeat but with more weight.

Why like this? This way we are still increasing the pre/rehab effect of these lifts.

We are increasing the volume as we progress with this style of training.

We are still getting stronger at these lifts but at a very slow and methodical rate. So as not to interfere with the meat and potatoes of the program. Which is the squat and deadlift.
 
You squat everyday?

We have very similar front squat, as mine is 155 kg. What is your clean and jerk and snatch? If I may ask.

Yep, I squat every day in some form or another.

This includes spending at least 30 min a day (cumulative) just sitting in a squat.

Age: 50
Weight class: 102 kg
Height: 5'11" / 180 cm

Last competition C&J (not PR*): 117 kg
Last competition snatch (not PR*): 81 kg

*At age 50, lifetime PRs are highly unlikely. My best lifts were years ago; like most people, my explosiveness is declining more with age than my absolute strength.
 
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Yep, I squat every day in some form or another.

This includes spending at least 30 min a day (cumulative) just sitting in a squat.

Age: 50
Weight class: 102 kg
Height: 5'11" / 180 cm

Last competition C&J (not PR*): 117 kg
Last competition snatch (not PR*): 81 kg

*At age 50, lifetime PRs are highly unlikely. My best lifts were years ago; like most people, my explosiveness is declining more with age than my absolute strength.
I am very impressed.. Big ups to you! I do hope you continue to shine! Inspiring to hear this!! :)
HARD WORK!
 
3 sets for week 1.
4 sets for week 2.
5 sets for week 3 etc.

Once you get to the top end of the prescribed sets you rinse and repeat but with more weight.

Why like this? This way we are still increasing the pre/rehab effect of these lifts.

We are increasing the volume as we progress with this style of training.

We are still getting stronger at these lifts but at a very slow and methodical rate. So as not to interfere with the meat and potatoes of the program. Which is the squat and deadlift.
Very interesting! I started today on your advices, let's hope this pays off!

Thank you!!
 
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