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Other/Mixed Mountain Strong

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
Steve Freides said:
Thanks - that's why I no longer use them regularly.

I'm going to look into this further.

-S-
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Steve,
The main difference between suspended and fixed is tension needed to stay on the edge. Most prefer a fixed board as you can "add" more weight to the hangs. I like both, but prefer the hanging board for the warmup of actual climbing days as the extra tension needed to hang mimics the tension needed for hard moves.

I have made several boards over the years with varying degrees of success. For what you would seem to be using it for, the Tindeq V-Rings are far and away the best option. I have a pair and absolutely love them.
 
Tigger said:
Bonking, cramps, and the joys of Nose in A Day. What are your insights, experiences, preventions, solutions, sources, etc on these issues?

1. Look good
2. Have fun
3. Don't be gripped (1+2=3)
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I haven't done the NIAD but did the 24 Hours of Horseshoe Hell a few years ago. The goal was at least a hundred pitches each totaling more than a 'vertical mile.' While the event wasn't easy per se (feet were very angry by the last few hours) it also wasn't very hard at all. The training seemed to prepare us very well for the demands of the day.
Ill share some of my thoughts and processes on getting the body ready for such a big day.
First and foremost, don't get pumped! Learn to climb with a steady flow well under the threshold. Breathe out on the hand moves and in on the foot moves. Try not to match any holds during training and use your body to push through all the moves instead of hands and arms.

I'm not sure how tall your gym is, but I did Up, Down, Ups for all my base work, all lead on the steepest walls you can throughout the session. Climb in a smooth steady pace without stopping to shake out mid route. Call it quits when you will have to start resting on jugs. I used the one hand shake method to prolong the session.

I was able to basically add one 'set' of up,down,ups every session while also bumping up the difficulty of one or two of the sets every session as well.

I did this three days a week plus one outdoor session of route doubles. Lead, lower, pull the rope, lead again.

One of the above sessions was one to three sets of easy route, then a few hours of bouldering on the moon board followed by a few more sets.

All sessions I did a very short fingerboard warmup after a few of the warmups sets of routes. Basically hang a few times on an edge. Roughly 3 sec, 5 sec, 10 sec. Then one pullup on the edge, then two, then three. Then back to the routes (or bouldering).

Build up to about 50-75% of the 'vertical feet' you are going to climb as the last bit of the training. Make sure the majority of 'pitches' in the gym and outside are MUCH harder than you expect on route. This will give you the physical edge you need to deal with the mental hurdles encountered.

Good Luck!
 
@Ryan Johnson is right about climbing with a steady flow. Along those lines from a non-physical perspective (and I am sure this is stating the obvious) is to ensure you have all your systems down pat and have excellent rope management skills. Nothing sucks energy and time like futzing with ropes and messing around at belays. Figure out what you can (or are willing to) simul-climb. I think Tigger has done the Nose before so that helps a lot. But if one has the opportunity, chucking some laps on some of the pitches will also help dial in the efficiency factor.
 
Hey Guys, I live in Kansas and you might not have heard, but we do not have a ton of elevation here. I am considering signing up for an out of state 50 mile ultra this fall that has a little over 10,000feet in elevation change. I know that is not a ton for you folks, but keep in mind I did a 50 mile virtual event last year, that according to Strava, added up to about 400' of elevation change. I need to drive around 2 hours to get to a trail that gives a pretty good challenge, but it will be tough for me to get consistent trail vertical. I am going to be using the local sledding hill and some lake dams, along with step ups to train for the vert. Any suggestions on programming?
Keep in mind that I am a 54 year old carpenter that has only been running for 5 years. These races are an experience for me, not a "race". I run these to test my training, and give me a reason to train, not because I expect to compete. I weigh my training more towards GPP, then running. I have ran some shorter trail races and I will be running a 50k with considerable vertical(for here) in June. I am currently running 30-35 miles per week, biking 10 as much as I can, and two strength sessions.

Any thoughts, input, or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!
 
Coyote said:
Hey Guys, I live in Kansas and you might not have heard, but we do not have a ton of elevation here. I am considering signing up for an out of state 50 mile ultra this fall that has a little over 10,000feet in elevation change. I know that is not a ton for you folks, but keep in mind I did a 50 mile virtual event last year, that according to Strava, added up to about 400' of elevation change. I need to drive around 2 hours to get to a trail that gives a pretty good challenge, but it will be tough for me to get consistent trail vertical. I am going to be using the local sledding hill and some lake dams, along with step ups to train for the vert. Any suggestions on programming?
Keep in mind that I am a 54 year old carpenter that has only been running for 5 years. These races are an experience for me, not a "race". I run these to test my training, and give me a reason to train, not because I expect to compete. I weigh my training more towards GPP, then running. I have ran some shorter trail races and I will be running a 50k with considerable vertical(for here) in June. I am currently running 30-35 miles per week, biking 10 as much as I can, and two strength sessions.

Any thoughts, input, or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!
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Well first off... my condolences for living in Kansas. I feel your pain. Whilst I haven’t lived anywhere so epically flat as that, I have lived in some pretty flat places in the past and have been able to successfully train for some high vertical component activities.
I assume this ultra you are signed up for is trail / off-road?

Obviously get lots of running in.... and the bulk of it at or below your AeT. Do as much of it on trails if you can (again assuming your race is off-road)
Your 50k race in Jun will be good training and a good barometer of where you are at in your training.

I know that we have discussed Training for the New Alpinism, but if you haven‘t done so read (re-read) Training for the Uphill Athlete. If it were me (and it has been) I would follow their gym based Muscular Endurance plan.

And for the secret weapon... box-steps... In times of flatness this has served me exceptionally well. Boring as heck and soul-stealing but highly effective. Start with once a week and 1,000’ per session.

Use an HRM

Closely monitor your recovery as you ramp up training

Have fun.

Reach out here or by PM if you want to...
 
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basically what @offwidth said.

As you get closer you might find a gym or place with a modern treadmill that goes >12% and do some focused work on that. I use the high rep box step in some programs for folks, but the tready might be a bit more specific.

Good luck.
 
Yeah, that is basically what I thought, but I get to second guessing myself. I have increased my aerobic speed by a bunch, but I am still terribly slow. Its hard to up mileage during a limited amount of time! I train about 7-8 hours per week, with a little more on long runs, and I really cant go any higher.

Also.... When I do run trails, and areas with more vertical, it doesn't "seem" like my limits are aerobic. My restraints during a race, and especially pains after, are more muscle related. Sooooo...... I get to second guessing myself. I do know that more aerobic training allows more intense training, but even in the uphill athlete book it is mentioned that their training methods are for competitive athletes. Since I will never be competitive, I start to wonder... My brain is a hindrance.....

Sorry, but I just can not do a treadmill, and I really I don't have one easily available. I ran this February in -20 real temp, -50 wind chill. I didn't run a lot, but I did run. I get enough boredom at my job!

Thanks!
 
Coyote said:
Sorry, but I just can not do a treadmill, and I really I don't have one easily available. I ran this February in -20 real temp, -50 wind chill. I didn't run a lot, but I did run. I get enough boredom at my job!

Thanks!
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Back in the day when I used to run and train for freestyle bump skiing, I ran stadium steps at the rodeo fairgrounds. Might be a possibility for you if there's a stadium nearby.
 
Coyote said:
Yeah, that is basically what I thought, but I get to second guessing myself. I have increased my aerobic speed by a bunch, but I am still terribly slow. Its hard to up mileage during a limited amount of time! I train about 7-8 hours per week, with a little more on long runs, and I really cant go any higher.

Also.... When I do run trails, and areas with more vertical, it doesn't "seem" like my limits are aerobic. My restraints during a race, and especially pains after, are more muscle related. Sooooo...... I get to second guessing myself. I do know that more aerobic training allows more intense training, but even in the uphill athlete book it is mentioned that their training methods are for competitive athletes. Since I will never be competitive, I start to wonder... My brain is a hindrance.....

Sorry, but I just can not do a treadmill, and I really I don't have one easily available. I ran this February in -20 real temp, -50 wind chill. I didn't run a lot, but I did run. I get enough boredom at my job!

Thanks!
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I am with you on the hamster wheel. I would rather stand in a cold shower with all my clothes on ripping up $20 bills than run on a treadmill...

While the material in TFTUA is geared to a reasonably serious crowd the methods are highly scalable. Especially the gym based stuff, so don’t rule it out. Box Steps! And like @SFSparky just pointed out... stadium stairs if you have access.

Running long ultras for the common man tends to be more about eating whilst going for a fast walk in the woods.

-20F running... excellent!

And remember... don’t believe everything you think :cool:
 
Coyote said:
Yeah, that is basically what I thought, but I get to second guessing myself. I have increased my aerobic speed by a bunch, but I am still terribly slow. Its hard to up mileage during a limited amount of time! I train about 7-8 hours per week, with a little more on long runs, and I really cant go any higher.

Also.... When I do run trails, and areas with more vertical, it doesn't "seem" like my limits are aerobic. My restraints during a race, and especially pains after, are more muscle related. Sooooo...... I get to second guessing myself. I do know that more aerobic training allows more intense training, but even in the uphill athlete book it is mentioned that their training methods are for competitive athletes. Since I will never be competitive, I start to wonder... My brain is a hindrance.....

Sorry, but I just can not do a treadmill, and I really I don't have one easily available. I ran this February in -20 real temp, -50 wind chill. I didn't run a lot, but I did run. I get enough boredom at my job!

Thanks!
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i feel ya, i live in Maine. Outside 365. Well except when I have specific work to do and not the terrain to do it. The tready wasn't suggested as a weather alternative...but as a terrain alternative.

Find ANY hill and run up it. MANY times, then?

Google - Karel Sabbe hill repeats - dude ran HUNDREDS of times up a small hill to get his vert. He's pretty legit trail runner as well.
The Bonus of this method is the DOWNHILL which then of course conditions your soft tissue to the demands of the eccentric loading.

Train well.
 
Yeah... to be sure... there are a few pretty impressive folks out there that are serious trail runners, climbers, and cyclists that live where it’ s abysmally flat. It can be done. Where there’s a will there’s a way....
I lived in flat areas of Illinois and Michigan for a while. Little hill repeats and lots of them were de rigueur...
Fortunately I have over 6,000’ of vert in my front yard these days...
 
@Coyote

You have received great advice, Uphill Athlete is the industry standard for vertical endeavors and box steps etc. can't be beat. One other option I have used in the past to great success for vertical endeavors is the long distance tire drag. Get a car tire, weight it appropriately, and drag it for long distance (2 miles+). It mimics uphill movement almost perfectly and it is a great break for the monotony of step ups.
 
Hello,

Something that can be interesting in case of flat ground is a "complex" box step > reverse lunge > squat. Performed with a pacer or nasal breathing, it can be great. We can make it slightly harder by carrying a backpack.

Bobby Maximus, even if he is not a runner, has something interesting, which consists in a pyramid of 2 lunges (per side), then 30s wall sit, then 4 lunges (per side), then 30s wall sit, all the way up to 50.

As far as mileage goes, TFTUA is really athlete / competition oriented. In this regard, it offers a tried and tested way to be successful.

If schedule is an issue, which I understand, another option could be a daily 30-40 minutes trail run, with nasal breathing / talk test (if like me, you do not have HR monitor), without necessarily doing the long run. If one thinks about it, 5k a day, 6 days a week. It makes 30k per week, which is a solid "base" to do a 50k race. On the 7th day, if this is possible, going for a longer run (for instance a 10-15k) could be great.

It seems that low HR and low mileage are important. In this article, T. Ferriss interviews someone who ran only 30 miles a week to prepare a 100 miler. Then he ran only 1/3 of race length, which is low compared to TFTUA
www.google.fr

The Painless Path to Endurance - The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss

Pavel Tsatsouline is a former Soviet Special Forces physical training instructor, currently a subject matter expert to the US Navy SEALs and the US Secret Service. In 2001, Pavel’s and John Du Cane introduced the Russian kettlebell to the West. Dan John is a former nationally-ranked discus...
www.google.fr www.google.fr

If the goal is just to finish without 'too much' pain, then...

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
pet' said:
Hello,

Something that can be interesting in case of flat ground is a "complex" box step > reverse lunge > squat. Performed with a pacer or nasal breathing, it can be great. We can make it slightly harder by carrying a backpack.

Bobby Maximus, even if he is not a runner, has something interesting, which consists in a pyramid of 2 lunges (per side), then 30s wall sit, then 4 lunges (per side), then 30s wall sit, all the way up to 50.

As far as mileage goes, TFTUA is really athlete / competition oriented. In this regard, it offers a tried and tested way to be successful.

If schedule is an issue, which I understand, another option could be a daily 30-40 minutes trail run, with nasal breathing / talk test (if like me, you do not have HR monitor), without necessarily doing the long run. If one thinks about it, 5k a day, 6 days a week. It makes 30k per week, which is a solid "base" to do a 50k race. On the 7th day, if this is possible, going for a longer run (for instance a 10-15k) could be great.

It seems that low HR and low mileage are important. In this article, T. Ferriss interviews someone who ran only 30 miles a week to prepare a 100 miler. Then he ran only 1/3 of race length, which is low compared to TFTUA
www.google.fr

The Painless Path to Endurance - The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss

Pavel Tsatsouline is a former Soviet Special Forces physical training instructor, currently a subject matter expert to the US Navy SEALs and the US Secret Service. In 2001, Pavel’s and John Du Cane introduced the Russian kettlebell to the West. Dan John is a former nationally-ranked discus...
www.google.fr www.google.fr

If the goal is just to finish without 'too much' pain, then...

Kind regards,

Pet'
Click to expand...
Bobby Maximus hung around with Mark Twight long enough, that presumably some endurance stuff wore off on him...
 
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