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Barbell Russian Bear Workout with 5-3-2?

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Bertje

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With the russian bear workout from pttp you should do many 80% back off sets with good form, but what if you want do it more simpler and take the 5-3-2 approach? So for example start with the 70% 5RM with 5 reps, 90 sec break, 3 reps, 90 sec break, 2 reps, 90 sec break, 5 reps, 90 sec break, 3 reps, 90 sec break, 2 reps, 90 sec break etc etc... so no lighter back off sets but just same weigth all the time? Sorry for the bad english...
 
No, still 80% of the initial weight. The 3-2 with the initial weight takes the place of the 5 with 90%, but after that, still 80% for multiple sets of 5.

-S-
Okay thanks for your response! I want to start the bear next weekend, but I read that its wise to train first for a 2xbw deadlift, can I do that? Well yes and no... I lifted today 150 kg twice, im 15 kg overweigt, according to my normal weigth (70 kg) I can lift 2x bw, but I'm obese and weigth now at 85 kg... so am I Ready for the bear, what do you think...?
 
My (short) experience with the bear indicated that it’s really something that needs to built up to and not “started.” I came from the 10,000 swing challenge and thought 500 swings a day was enough volume to jump into the bear, but the carryover was minimum and I suffered after my first day as that many deadlifts really took its toll on me. I had to end it after one day and rethink my training.

I have now been working up the volume over the past 3 months and my typical deadlift day involves about 35 reps, many of which are far less than 80%, which is a short day of the bear. I need more months to continue working up to true bear volume.
 
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My (short) experience with the bear indicated that it’s really something that needs to built up to and not “started.”
So, maybe one week I add 2-3 80% sets toa PTTP practice to see how it feels, and go from there.
 
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Okay thanks for your response! I want to start the bear next weekend, but I read that its wise to train first for a 2xbw deadlift, can I do that? Well yes and no... I lifted today 150 kg twice, im 15 kg overweigt, according to my normal weigth (70 kg) I can lift 2x bw, but I'm obese and weigth now at 85 kg... so am I Ready for the bear, what do you think...?
The Bear is for mass gain. If you are overweight, you probably don't want to be eating for mass gain. If you aren't in a position to get the most out of it, consider saving it for when you are in a position to make the most of it.
 
The Bear is for mass gain. If you are overweight, you probably don't want to be eating for mass gain. If you aren't in a position to get the most out of it, consider saving it for when you are in a position to make the most of it.
Well I was thinking that gettin a little more muscle mass would also automatically burn some fat
 
My (short) experience with the bear indicated that it’s really something that needs to built up to and not “started.” I came from the 10,000 swing challenge and thought 500 swings a day was enough volume to jump into the bear, but the carryover was minimum and I suffered after my first day as that many deadlifts really took its toll on me. I had to end it after one day and rethink my training.

I have now been working up the volume over the past 3 months and my typical deadlift day involves about 35 reps, many of which are far less than 80%, which is a short day of the bear. I need more months to continue working up to true bear volume.
Thanks for your response, I do how ever have about 2 years of deadlift experience, first started normal pttp protocol, and after that I did a couple of months of the 5 x 5 method
 
I need more months to continue working up to true bear volume.
There is no such thing. You do as many as you can and that's your bear.
Well I was thinking that gettin a little more muscle mass would also automatically burn some fat
I think you are right. I haven't tried, but I believe this is one of the simplest ways to gain muscle and strength. The hardest part is to auto-regulate the amount of sets so that you can keep training frequency in the spirit of PTTP.
 
Thanks for your response, I do how ever have about 2 years of deadlift experience, first started normal pttp protocol, and after that I did a couple of months of the 5 x 5 method
I’m definitely not saying you can’t do it, give it a try. I meant to not try and jump in with 10-20 extra sets at 80% your first day. Maybe start with a few, and stop before you feel it, and and a little more next time. The short rest periods prescribed make it hit different so just ease into it.
 
Well I was thinking that gettin a little more muscle mass would also automatically burn some fat

Any lifting you do will give you a little more muscle mass. What is going to take off the fat is exercises like pushaways and turndowns (intake reduction - eating for fat loss). Eating like that is going to take away most of any advantage that any program (including the Bear) may offer over another for muscle gain.
 
In a way, yes, but you’re not going to get the benefit of high volume training if you can’t do high volume.
I didn't understand this back when this conversation took place and I still don't. Why wouldn't you benefit from training on the limit of your ability?

I decided to take a break from ME training and took PTTP bear for a spin, lifting every other day. I've done almost 5 weeks but I missed one workout in the end of 2nd week, because of yet another flue. This prompted me to sleep more and I recovered enough to carry on. I got a concrete example that sleep is good and I finally try to sleep more. Which is why I cut cycle early because I had bad nights. The 150 kg I used felt easier than previous 145 workouts. I use step loading, two times same weight.

I'm on the 1st week of 2nd cycle now, doing 2-3 sets more than in 1st cycle. I started with 10-11 sets on 95-100kg, but was still able to do 6 sets with 120kg. It is decent amount by my standards. It means that I did two workouts at once. I use 2 min intervals which is a little too long, roughly 100 s rest.

I had lots of little soreness here and there, not much right now. I use HR monitor and it makes easier to keep on going until it's really time to stop. I haven't deadlifted much in a very long time, but I have trained pretty consistently for some time, except this autumn. It seems that the 4-3 workouts per week suit just fine. I just had to cut down significantly on other work. Like I have already said, I think the key in bear is to do the right amount. Maybe HR monitoring helps me to do the 6+ sets and continue until HR stays high during break. Then I find the point of slowing down and obey it.

But where's the benefits? It remains to be seen. My weight is still going up and down, depending on how much crap I eat. The weight I use for other work seems a bit light. And personally I wouldn't use roughly 100 kg in my own DL programming. I guesstimate my starting max to roughly 185kg. I sumoed 180kg some time ago. I would stay mainly in 70-85% range with occasional 50-60% and 90+% workouts. Actually, before I started I did a few weeks training with 150kg. Maybe it felt easier last week than before.

I plan to continue until end of January. 3rd cycle will be a wave. If I can go up to 165kg it will be the best I've ever done, especially without belt. And with all this volume... After 2nd cycle I should know if there is any chance.
 
I didn't understand this back when this conversation took place and I still don't. Why wouldn't you benefit from training on the limit of your ability?
What I was referring to was that if you push beyond your abilities like I did and jump right in to a high volume program, you will likely not be able to stick with it. My first day jumping in to try the bear killed me and I couldn’t lift again for more than a week because everything hurt. I would have gotten more volume with less of a toll by doing regular PTTP.

Most high volume programs I have seen since, build up to the high volume instead of starting there day 1. That’s all I meant, it’s hard to get high volume if you go too hard too soon and can’t keep it up.
 
What I was referring to was that if you push beyond your abilities like I did and jump right in to a high volume program, you will likely not be able to stick with it. My first day jumping in to try the bear killed me and I couldn’t lift again for more than a week because everything hurt. I would have gotten more volume with less of a toll by doing regular PTTP.

Most high volume programs I have seen since, build up to the high volume instead of starting there day 1. That’s all I meant, it’s hard to get high volume if you go too hard too soon and can’t keep it up.
Well maybe you had your weights wrong then. And I haven't seen anyone say that you have to be "there" at day one. If anything, he wrote that build gradually, listen to your body and stop before it gets too taxing.
 
Well maybe you had your weights wrong then. And I haven't seen anyone say that you have to be "there" at day one. If anything, he wrote that build gradually, listen to your body and stop before it gets too taxing.
Maybe my weights were wrong, but that’s part of the issue with jumping into something new. Day 1, there’s no “right weight.” It was my first time deadlifting, so it felt like it would be easy, but I obviously overestimated how taxing deadlifts can be.

Listening to your body, or auto regulation, is easier said than done for me as a beginner. Maybe I’m too dumb, but I doubt I’m the only one that finds it hard to know something I’ve never done before. It seems to be working great for you, and I’m sure it’s great for others, I’m just telling you my experience so others can learn from it.

In my experience, if you’ve never done this or a similar program, go easy at first. That is all. If you think I’m just too dumb, which I may be, don’t listen to me. Either way, I did 5 bear sets my first day and had to skip a week of training to recover.
 
Maybe my weights were wrong, but that’s part of the issue with jumping into something new. Day 1, there’s no “right weight.” It was my first time deadlifting, so it felt like it would be easy, but I obviously overestimated how taxing deadlifts can be.

Listening to your body, or auto regulation, is easier said than done for me as a beginner. Maybe I’m too dumb, but I doubt I’m the only one that finds it hard to know something I’ve never done before. It seems to be working great for you, and I’m sure it’s great for others, I’m just telling you my experience so others can learn from it.

In my experience, if you’ve never done this or a similar program, go easy at first. That is all. If you think I’m just too dumb, which I may be, don’t listen to me. Either way, I did 5 bear sets my first day and had to skip a week of training to recover.
To be fair, Pavel says that the end could be "five or twenty five sets" so your start sounds entry level to me.
I'm sure no-one is calling you dumb....! The issue was not being familiar with the exercise but you've previously written that you assumed more carryover from swings. Which isn't dumb, just a learning curve.
 
Maybe my weights were wrong, but that’s part of the issue with jumping into something new. Day 1, there’s no “right weight.” It was my first time deadlifting, so it felt like it would be easy, but I obviously overestimated how taxing deadlifts can be.
As a neophyte and a bit of a slow learner in this space of physical endeavor, I found this to be an amazing disconnect in the entry level literature offered by most mass audience offerings.

It reminds me of motorcycles. Beginners would be most in need the best brakes. But, The best brakes are spec'd on the most high end advanced bikes. The entry level motorcycle has the least good brakes. It's a very strange arrangement.

Many of the most visible weightlifting programs, to those who don't know better, which includes me, use a percentage of 1RM as the reference for what weight to put on the bar.

As a new comer this was a confounding variable in assessment of how to begin.

As you may have read, there are two places I found a particular piece of advice: Pavel, and Rippetoe .

Pavel , in Power To The People, says work your way up to a weight which is not too heavy, not too light . Rely on your own sense of what you can do a set of 5 with that is challenging without overdoing it.

Rippetoe, in starting strength, merely advises that a male start the deadlift at 135 and begin linearly adding weight every session. And the natural collision with the end of that ability to progress will find its way to you.

With the benefit of working my way up to Timeless Simple, my first meaningful day with my barbell and bumpers found a max of 315, which I then used as a basis for Daily Dose Deadlifts.

That said making a mistake in programming is one of the best things one can do, sans an injury or extreme overtraining. I never learned as much from getting something right as I did from a mistake.

Actually having a "good ear" handicapped me as a musician because I got along for so long on sheer ability without learning more along the way, all the way through college. Which, in my case now clearly limits my ability to learn things quickly outside my wheel house, so to speak.

All that said, if I had it to do over again I'd be doing 5 3 2 sets of PTTP starting at 135, and adding 5-10 lbs each session, and keep going till I missed a rep or didn't think I'd make the rep, then, out of sheer estimation I'd knock off 25 percent and run another linear. I'd just take that as far as I could go, not knowing any better than I know now. And at some point get wavier. But not sure how.
 
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