Kettlebell I am in a plateau?

[Henda]

Hi dear collegues!

I have been training using kettlebells for a wile now, but its been some months that I feel stuck. I started doing S&S with a 20kg bell but I found it quite boring so I started Kettlebel STRONG! and loved it. I run it with double 20kg, when I finished I managed to do 13 reps. After that I did Dry Fighting Weight with double 24s and TT afterwards. Then, I jumped to 28kg bells and I did Kettlebell STRONG! phase 1, when I started I was able to do a tough 4 reps. When I finished phase 1 I was able to do just 5 reps.

Now I am doing Dry Fighting Weight with those 28kg, and on day 10 I roughly perform 30 total reps when the other two times I run it I was able to do 36-40.
So I am thinking that I might be on a plateau, or maybe this is just normal. I don´t know, what do you think? Any sugestions? @Geoff Neupert

 

[Ryan T]

Have you taken a break between any of these programs? If not, take a deload week. Others can comment on the specifics of the programs themselves.

Also the 28s may be too heavy for the moment.

 

[MikeL]

10 days into a program, using heavier weight, and your rep count is lower?

Doubt it’s a plateau, it’s just heavier weight and you’re not even 2 weeks in…

Take a day off if you’re tired, carry on with the programme.

 

[Henda]

Have you taken a break between any of these programs? If not, take a deload week. Others can comment on the specifics of the programs themselves.

Also the 28s may be too heavy for the moment.

Yes, I took two breaks between programs.

I wouldn't say that it is too heavy as it actually is my 5 RM.

10 days into a program, using heavier weight, and your rep count is lower?

Doubt it’s a plateau, it’s just heavier weight and you’re not even 2 weeks in…

Take a day off if you’re tired, carry on with the programme.

Not 10 days, I did STRONG! Phase 1 with 28s with little progress. Thats why I started DFW as both are based in similar RM.
This is my third time thru DFW, I know the progress I had before and now it isn't close. I arrived to 30 reps each workout but I am feeling unable to do more.
On workout 9 I managed to do 33 reps.
On workout 10 I did 30
And today on workout 11 I have done 26 reps.

Times before on every DFW workout I was able to progress, now it isn't the case.

 

[BJJ Shawn]

It might help to do a little same but different training. Perhaps switching to push press/jerk if you want to stick with kettlebells can help in some areas you're lacking, or possibly switch to a barbell or handstand pushups for a while to get similar pressing motions but ones that will work your muscles in a little different way to help get you through your sticking point.

 

[Mark Limbaga]

It can be beneficial to not do a string of intense plans in a row...

 

[jozko]

On workout 9 I managed to do 33 reps.
On workout 10 I did 30
And today on workout 11 I have done 26 reps.

Times before on every DFW workout I was able to progress, now it isn't the case.

To me it looks more like overtraining, or being close to it. I would recommend to take a day off, then have a few light days, another day off and return to this. Usually there is no need to take two or more days off if you are disciplined during your light days, i.e. if you really keep them light.

You may also check the quality of your sleep - if I have problem to fall asleep several days in a row, then I know I am pushing too hard. This is the best gauge for me.

I really enjoy lifting bells and slowing down is the most difficult thing for me. But sometimes it's a right thing to do.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

I am thinking that I might be on a plateau, or maybe this is just normal. I don´t know, what do you think?

"Everything Works But Nothing Works Forever"

I am not completely clear on what you are doing. With that in mind, this is some general information.

Initially, any new program will work. However, at some point it will stop working and rather than going forward, stagnation occurs or you go backwards.

There are a variety of factors that may cause it. Thus, plateaus are inevitable.

The primary reason for it is...

The General Adaptation Syndrome

This means that you essentially adapt or die. This is also referred to as "The Law of Adaptation".

In training, dieting and about everything else, once adaptation occurs, you plateau.

The key to continual progress is...

Periodization Training

A certain of week is set aside for a Training Program.

The program progressively increases the intensity/load each week.

The final week of the training program is pushed to the limit or near to it.

Once that Training Program is ended in the final week, a new program is begun.

The new program start off easy and works up to the final all out week of training.

Once it is complete, you start over again.

Starting over provide...

Active Recovery

Recovery is where gains in strength and size take place.

Active Recovery with light loads, increase blood flow to the muscles that assist with faster recovery.

take a deload week.

Short Term Fix

This works to some extent. However, in the long run, it is counter productive.

Periodization Training has been preformed for decades by athletes. It works for everyone.

different training.

"If is not working, you need to change something"

This goes back to The General Adaptation Syndrome/The Law of Adaptation.

Changing/Varying Exercises

Research has demonstrated that changing or varying and exercise is another key to maintaining progress.

Varying an exercise can be as simple as going from a Wide Stance Low Back Squat to a High Bar Narrow Stance Squat.

switching to push press/jerk if you want to stick with kettlebells

Something like this, as well...

It can be beneficial to not do a string of intense plans in a row...

This takes us back to Periodization Training.

I would recommend to take a day off, then have a few light days, another day off and return to this.

Another Short Term Fix

A well formulated and executed Periodization Training Program will provide greater long term results.

 

[Starlord]

Yes, I took two breaks between programs.

I wouldn't say that it is too heavy as it actually is my 5 RM.


Not 10 days, I did STRONG! Phase 1 with 28s with little progress. Thats why I started DFW as both are based in similar RM.
This is my third time thru DFW, I know the progress I had before and now it isn't close. I arrived to 30 reps each workout but I am feeling unable to do more.
On workout 9 I managed to do 33 reps.
On workout 10 I did 30
And today on workout 11 I have done 26 reps.

Times before on every DFW workout I was able to progress, now it isn't the case.

This is normal. As you do the same program more and more you gains will be less and less.

This is due to 1, you body getting accustomed to the stimulus and 2, you are literally more advance, so you have less "room" to grow.

So an example from my own personal experience. I ran korte 3×3 with raw % and the volume phase extended 3 times. No other adjustments. My gains were halfed during my second and third run.

Some changes were made e.g. paused squats instead of back squats, CGBP instead of comp bench and deadlifting only on Fridays. My results were better than the 3rd run but still not as good as the first run.

 

[Henda]

Thanks for your answers, I apreciate a lot.

"Everything Works But Nothing Works Forever"

I am not completely clear on what you are doing. With that in mind, this is some general information.

Initially, any new program will work. However, at some point it will stop working and rather than going forward, stagnation occurs or you go backwards.

There are a variety of factors that may cause it. Thus, plateaus are inevitable.

The primary reason for it is...

The General Adaptation Syndrome

This means that you essentially adapt or die. This is also referred to as "The Law of Adaptation".

In training, dieting and about everything else, once adaptation occurs, you plateau.

The key to continual progress is...

Periodization Training

A certain of week is set aside for a Training Program.

The program progressively increases the intensity/load each week.

The final week of the training program is pushed to the limit or near to it.

Once that Training Program is ended in the final week, a new program is begun.

The new program start off easy and works up to the final all out week of training.

Once it is complete, you start over again.

Starting over provide...

Active Recovery

Recovery is where gains in strength and size take place.

Active Recovery with light loads, increase blood flow to the muscles that assist with faster recovery.



"If is not working, you need to change something"

This goes back to The General Adaptation Syndrome/The Law of Adaptation.

Changing/Varying Exercises

Research has demonstrated that changing or varying and exercise is another key to maintaining progress.

Varying an exercise can be as simple as going from a Wide Stance Low Back Squat to a High Bar Narrow Stance Squat.

I am doing clean and press based programs (if they include front squats even better) as they are the ones I enjoy the most.
I start with a pure strength phase (like phase 1 in STRONG!) which used to increase my RM to 8. Then I used to follow with phase 2 slow and steady and it took me to increase my RM to 12 reps. As I like doing squats I tried to replace this two phases by DFW and then switch to Total Tension.

The last time I did it DFW and then TT it was successful and it took me from not being able to press the 28s to become my 3RM.
But then, I tried the same path with the 28s with little success.

I thought that I was safe from the adaptation syndrome as in the program the volume varies and when I finish the cycle I increase the weight. Isn't this enough?

Also as I understand it the periodization is included in the program as they increase the volume progressively. I am right?

At the end, I try to make my 3RM pair of KBs to 8RM and then 10-12RM. Then, I start over with the next weight.

This is normal. As you do the same program more and more you gains will be less and less.

This is due to 1, you body getting accustomed to the stimulus and 2, you are literally more advance, so you have less "room" to grow.

This is something I have been considering also, but maybe I leaved that aside as I consider myself as a beginner.

 

[Geoff Neupert]

@Henda,

A couple of questions for you:
1. What is your current weight? What was your starting weight?
2. How much sleep do you get a night?
3. Do you take days off and do the programs as written, or do you "supplement" with other programs and activities?
4. Do you do anything for active recovery?
5. On a scale of 1-10, how would you rate your current stress levels (1 being non-existent, 10 being maxed out). Have they increased, decreased, or remained the same since you started training with KBs?

These answers can help you diagnose what might be going wrong.

 

[Henda]

@Henda,

A couple of questions for you:
1. What is your current weight? What was your starting weight?
2. How much sleep do you get a night?
3. Do you take days off and do the programs as written, or do you "supplement" with other programs and activities?
4. Do you do anything for active recovery?
5. On a scale of 1-10, how would you rate your current stress levels (1 being non-existent, 10 being maxed out). Have they increased, decreased, or remained the same since you started training with KBs?

These answers can help you diagnose what might be going wrong.

Hi Geoff,
1. My starting weight was 78kg, now I am 80,5kg.
2. I sleep about 6 hours at night with one or two wakes due to kids.
3. Yes I take off days and do the programs as written. The only extra I add is 3x5 DFSQ twice a week after the workout when doing STRONG! as you suggested in a email.
4. No, I don't do active recovery.
5. Sometimes I am in high stress levels 8-9 or so I would say. These days it has decreased. A 21 months baby, 4 years old child, work (teacher) stress goes up and down all the time.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

as I understand it the periodization is included in the program as they increase the volume progressively. I am right?

No

As someone once said, "When all else fails, read the directions."

Take some time to do some research on Periodization Training.

 

[Geoff Neupert]

Hi Geoff,
1. My starting weight was 78kg, now I am 80,5kg.
2. I sleep about 6 hours at night with one or two wakes due to kids.
3. Yes I take off days and do the programs as written. The only extra I add is 3x5 DFSQ twice a week after the workout when doing STRONG! as you suggested in a email.
4. No, I don't do active recovery.
5. Sometimes I am in high stress levels 8-9 or so I would say. These days it has decreased. A 21 months baby, 4 years old child, work (teacher) stress goes up and down all the time.

@Henda,

1. Nice job!
2. Here's the major issue. Find a way to go to bed earlier or get up later. You need 7+ hours. Nap when possible. Kids - I get it. We have 2 ourselves. Fortunately, they're through those early stages. Ours are 32 months apart, so we were in a similar situation.
3. Good. Make sure those DFSQs never exceed an 8 RPE - this may change on the day.
4. Start. 10 minutes of diaphragmatic breathing daily will go a long way.
5. I get it. See #4.

Hope this helps.

 

[Henda]

No

As someone once said, "When all else fails, read the directions."

Take some time to do some research on Periodization Training.

Thank you, I am already reading a paper on the topic.

1. Nice job!
2. Here's the major issue. Find a way to go to bed earlier or get up later. You need 7+ hours. Nap when possible. Kids - I get it. We have 2 ourselves. Fortunately, they're through those early stages. Ours are 32 months apart, so we were in a similar situation.
3. Good. Make sure those DFSQs never exceed an 8 RPE - this may change on the day.
4. Start. 10 minutes of diaphragmatic breathing daily will go a long way.
5. I get it. See #4.

Hope this helps.

Thanks Geoff, I'll do my best to sleep more, of course, I'll give a try to diaphragmatic breathing.

One last thing, what is RPE?

Thanks to all, I appreciate all the answers!

 

[BJJ Shawn]

Thank you, I am already reading a paper on the topic.




Thanks Geoff, I'll do my best to sleep more, of course, I'll give a try to diaphragmatic breathing.

One last thing, what is RPE?

Thanks to all, I appreciate all the answers!

RPE = rate of perceived exertion.

 

[Henda]

After a little time reading I´ve seen that the main periodization models are the Traditional and Phase ones. I understand the cycling but I´m not shure if I could programe it by my self.

I already have lots of kettlebell programs so I think that probably that would be enough for all the programing needs. The double bell work is the one I enjoy the most, that´s why I have almost everything @Geoff Neupert has put out (Kettlebell STRONG!, Kettlebell HARD, Kettlebell Burn ESTREME, Dry Fighting Weight...).

I also have and enjoy Total Tension, Moving Target, Simple Strength For Difficult Times...

How could I use the material I already have to build a reasonable long term program using the periodization principles?

 

[Geoff Neupert]

@Henda,

Here's the programming (periodization) I recommend for most:

Phase 1: Find and fix your weak links.
Phase 2: Get stronger.
Phase 3: Get leaner.
Phase 4: Get more muscular.
REPEAT.

Here's how that would look using the programs you already have:

1. Find and fix your weak links.
=> Kettlebell Burn + some mobility work or Original Strength or whatever restorative work you've used successfully in the past
(In truth, Burn is kind of an "all-in-one" program I designed to address Phases 1 thru 3 before I'd codified them and put them on paper. But it still works great for Phase 1.)

2. Get stronger.
=> Kettlebell STRONG! , then
=> DFW.

3. Get leaner.
=> Kettlebell Burn EXTREME!, then
=> Kettlebell HARD!

4. Get more muscular.
=> Kettlebell HARD! (EAT MORE.), or
=> Total Tension Complex

Hope this helps.

 

[PaulAllen]

@Henda,

Here's the programming (periodization) I recommend for most:

Phase 1: Find and fix your weak links.
Phase 2: Get stronger.
Phase 3: Get leaner.
Phase 4: Get more muscular.
REPEAT.

Here's how that would look using the programs you already have:

1. Find and fix your weak links.
=> Kettlebell Burn + some mobility work or Original Strength or whatever restorative work you've used successfully in the past
(In truth, Burn is kind of an "all-in-one" program I designed to address Phases 1 thru 3 before I'd codified them and put them on paper. But it still works great for Phase 1.)

2. Get stronger.
=> Kettlebell STRONG! , then
=> DFW.

3. Get leaner.
=> Kettlebell Burn EXTREME!, then
=> Kettlebell HARD!

4. Get more muscular.
=> Kettlebell HARD! (EAT MORE.), or
=> Total Tension Complex

Hope this helps.

Thanks Geoff for this info! I needed this roadmap.

 

[Henda]

@Henda,

Here's the programming (periodization) I recommend for most:

Phase 1: Find and fix your weak links.
Phase 2: Get stronger.
Phase 3: Get leaner.
Phase 4: Get more muscular.
REPEAT.

Here's how that would look using the programs you already have:

1. Find and fix your weak links.
=> Kettlebell Burn + some mobility work or Original Strength or whatever restorative work you've used successfully in the past
(In truth, Burn is kind of an "all-in-one" program I designed to address Phases 1 thru 3 before I'd codified them and put them on paper. But it still works great for Phase 1.)

2. Get stronger.
=> Kettlebell STRONG! , then
=> DFW.

3. Get leaner.
=> Kettlebell Burn EXTREME!, then
=> Kettlebell HARD!

4. Get more muscular.
=> Kettlebell HARD! (EAT MORE.), or
=> Total Tension Complex

Hope this helps.

Thaks @Geoff Neupert , that really helps!!

One last thing, how much time do you recomend to stay in each phase? The time needed to do all the workouts on the programs or a fixed one?