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Bodyweight Real world strength?

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Jeff

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I am finally getting around to reading Naked Warrior. This book was ground breaking at the time it was written, and still an excellent read. But, since I have read several other of Pavel's books, have heard or read several of his interviews, and been active on his forums for several years, I have already been exposed to many of the high tension techniques in this excellent book.

One thing I have wondered, though. By applying the high tension techniques, one can increase their strength in various "gym exercises". But, how does that apply to lifting something out of the back of a pickup truck, a fireman dragging a hose, a mason hoisting buckets of mud on scaffolding, a carpenter framing a house, etc. Do people in what I will loosely lump into the category called "real life" apply these high tension techniques as they go about their business? Do people who increase their one arm press by clinching the fist of their free hand derive benefit when doing routine strength demanding tasks outside the gym? What about a soldier carrying a heavy automatic weapon over rough terrain for long distances?
 
It applies very much - a few thoughts for you to consider:

When you get stronger, everything becomes easier. If, e.g., you were near your limits with single reps of your NW exercises and you improve to the point where you can do a set of five, you are stronger, and all the tasks in your example will feel easier because the task hasn't changed but it now represents a lower percentage of your maximum effort.

At our instructor certifications, we practice what I've heard Brett describe as using the volume control - you need to be able to dial up the appropriate level of tension for the task at hand. It will be a lower version of your maximum effort but the same principles will still apply.

The greater your need, e.g., you have to do a lot of a strength-endurance type of task, not just a moderate amount, then the greater your need for specifically training your event/task and assistance exercise designed to improve your performance. E.g., if you have to carry a heavy automatic weapon over rough terrain for long distances, it's best to practice doing just that. But carrying something much heavier for shorter distances will also improve your performance.

JMO, YMMV.

-S-
 
Do you have to apply the high tension techniques in order for the strength to be available? Do people begin applying these techniques as they go about their activities?
 
Not all the techniques are what we call feed-forward.

Many of these techniques, if practiced sufficiently, can become automatic. I know that for me, after pressing a kettlebell over my head for the last dozen or so years, things like firing my glutes just happen - that's just one example. In specific answer to your question, I'd say yes, what we encourage is learning how to apply all the principles while dialing back the intensity to a level appropriate to the task at hand.

"Real life" is pretty vague. There are many expert coaches on this forum who know how, pretty exactly, to evaluate someone in a particular field and then design a program for them to maximize their performance.

As a general rule, one wants to have a certain base level of strength as measured by a 1RM in a few chosen lifts. This is part of "general" preparation. Whether your "real life" person is a beginner, intermediate, or advanced practitioner of their chosen sport or vocation will also make a difference to what they'll need to while performing their activity.

-S-
 
I'm still a beginner in this area, but I can say that I have learned to definitely apply tension to any everyday task, and that came primarily after attending the 1-day SF Bodyweight course in March of this year with Karen Smith. Before lifting bags, before carrying a heavy weight, before moving something out of the back of my car, before moving a wheelbarrow full of dirt, before picking up small or large children... I set tension: my joints and spine are stable. My back has never been so strong or healthy. Everyone should have this!!

Practicing this tension as described in NW (and taught in the SFB course) is a skill, and becomes a habit if practiced regularly.
 
I don't think most people in work situations would give much thought to tensing up before a lift.

The guidance I received at workplace inductions about lifting consisted of about 30 seconds of "education". They flash a stupid graphic at you of someone lifting a box with bent legs and tell you to lift with your legs and sometimes show a picture of someone bending their back with a red cross over it and that's about the extent of it.

A lot of workplace injuries could be avoided if they spent a bit more time drilling lifting and tension techniques.

I've worked in some heavy lifting jobs, at one place I had to lift hendrickson and freightliner leaf springs into trucks by myself, some of those suckers weighed well over 300 lbs. Other places I had to lift heavy hydraulic cylinders in and out of awkward positions.

I really had to psyche myself up for some of those lifts a bit like an olympic weightlifter in some respects and I definitely tensed up before the lift. I'd clench my fists several times and expel a few deep breaths before I positioned myself for the lift. The same sort of thing applied to using a 1 inch drive rattle gun, if you didn't tense up before pulling the trigger the bloody thing would rip your arms off.

I'd say most people subconsciously tense up to some extent in real world tasks, but most of the time it's a balancing act. If you have to go all day you tend to conserve energy where ever you can, so any tensing up is a conditioned response that is enough to get the task done safely without wasting energy.
 
Yes, Tarzan. This seems to be the common conception of the main population, to lift with the legs, not your back (because the back is so vulnerable). Lifting correctly with the legs would be in my book a squat, and there seem to be three kinds of humans who can do it correctly: toddlers, asians (I mean people who are used to the squatting motion on a daily basis), and well, squatters (lifters). People (workers) should be educated, that the strongest and most basic movement pattern is the proper hinge, and when the weight gets considerably heavy, tension techniques should be employed. To lift a weight of the ground the approprate movement is the deadlift, the hinging movement.
Anna C said:
Practicing this tension as described in NW (and taught in the SFB course) is a skill, and becomes a habit if practiced regularly.
Click to expand...
I attribute to that, when the movement patterns and techniques are practiced, you use them on a regular basis, they become second nature and ingrained in the nervous system.
 
Hello all,

First post on the forum although, I have been reading for several months. A real wealth of knowledge here. Thank you to all that contribute.

Back to the topic; I am a shipfitter (I build and repair steel ships) by trade and like to think of myself as an "industrial athlete". I train mainly with KB's and bodyweight. With an occasional cycle of barbell work.

I for one use the high tension techniques in my daily life and certainly in my work. Wether it's keeping my shoulders packed while climbing ladders and scaffolding, or hinging at the hip to haul heavy tools and equipment through lightning holes in a tank or inner bottom, or just maintaining good postural alignment while running stairs I find tensioning and irradiation to be indispensable to my "real life" movement patterns. I certainly get to see the evidence of how much more efficiently and safely I am able to accomplish tasks at work compared to coworkers who give no thought to their movement patterns.

As for lifting with your legs and not your back; that is certainly the consensus of what we are taught at work. I generally find myself most commonly using a hybrid of hinging/squatting to move materials and equipment by hand. Something like the movement of a trap bar or Ukrainian deadlift. It just seems to work the best with much of the odd shaped and awkward loads we have to move around. Although, some certainly require lifting with one or the other or each separately and in sequence.
 
Hello Carl

I worked as a ship fitter for a few years too. It certainly can be hard work. There were some strong men on some of those worksites, even some of the old guys were capable of lifting things that a fit 20 year old would struggle with.

Ivan Poddubny was a fitter in a shipyard when he was younger and he went on to become a champion wrestler.
 
Jeff,

I think a certain amount of the tension and breathing techniques are hardwired into our brains. However, like much of what we want to do naturally and what we've been taught to do instead, things end up being overly complicated and dumb (for lack of a better word) when we do them.

Mark Rippetoe had a good example of tension breathing and the valsalva maneuver in Starting Strength. He gave the image of being stuck on a busy road in a broken down car and having to get out and push the car out of the road (after all, we are strong and we will not just leave it in the road simply because that would require less effort). As you are imagining yourself in this situation getting ready to dig your shoulder into the doorframe of the driver's side and push the car, how do you imagine yourself breathing in your mind? Is it a slow inhalation through the nose before slowly exhaling through tightly pursed lips making a "phwew" sound as you push? Or do you imagine that you'd focus, take a deep breath into your belly and hold that breath in tight as you push the car, maybe only letting out a deep grunt at the most?

I would wager that almost anyone, whether a strength trainee or not, would identify the second method as more effective and imagine themselves doing that, as it's hardwired into us at a very primal level. However, most have been conditioned to do the dumb, weak breathing instead when training.

Anecdotally, from my experience as a firefighter and paramedic, yes you revert back to your primal tension and breathing that's been programmed into our brains when dragging an attack line into a house (or worse, a heavy supply line anywhere). Practicing it in your regular strength training just makes you better at it.
 
Anna C said:
I'm still a beginner in this area, but I can say that I have learned to definitely apply tension to any everyday task, and that came primarily after attending the 1-day SF Bodyweight course in March of this year with Karen Smith. Before lifting bags, before carrying a heavy weight, before moving something out of the back of my car, before moving a wheelbarrow full of dirt, before picking up small or large children... I set tension: my joints and spine are stable. My back has never been so strong or healthy. Everyone should have this!!

Practicing this tension as described in NW (and taught in the SFB course) is a skill, and becomes a habit if practiced regularly.
Click to expand...
Anna - So pleased that you are seeing the carryover and benefits of our training after attending the BW course.
 
Sorry to be late to this thread, however I loved reading all your thoughts and comments.

As many have already stated the tension techniques are a skill that can be learned/mastered through practice. They can be used in everyday life to keep us safer while lifting something as simple as a large bag of dog food or something as advanced as pushing a car out of the road. As mentioned above once you learn the tension drills, and they are hard wired through practice you can later determine the volume of tension needed for a given skill. The best advice is to practice the BW drills/tension techniques often, increase your baseline of strength and all thing will be easier. Then dial in the level of tension needed at the spur of the moment needed.

Hope to see you all at an SFB course or certification in the future.
 
The tension and lifting techniques are certainly useful. However, I found that the motet technique a lift has the less carryover it seems to have. Snatching 90 kg is a lot of fun, but seems to have little carryover to daily life. Things like farmer's walks and crawling appear to have much more tranfer to other activities.
Loaded carries resemble probably most closely what you encounter in the shop or at home that is lifting it and then carrying it somewhere.

At work I think many people injure themselves not by lifting something up but while putting it to another place and thereby creating distance between them and the weight. I believe Dan John also has such a story.

@Harald: lifting with the legs just means to use the legs for the first pull (until the knees). Thereby people are able to keep a neutral spine whereas the natural tendency is just to bend forward and lift only with a rounded back. Bending forward and lifting with neutral spine is beyond the capability of most people.
Deadlifting is btw not a pure hinge movement. The first pull comes from the legs. A stiff legged deadlift would be only hinge.
 
Hey Steve,
I was referring to Dan John's spectrum from hinge to squat where most movement fall somewhere in the middle that is having some level of knee and hip bend. A stiff legged deadlift would be no knee bend and only hip hinge and a goblet squat or front squat deep hip hinge and knee bend.
 
I'm not familiar with Dan's word on this particular subject, just wanted to make the point that a deadlift _is_ a hip hinge and also is the movement that uses more muscles in the body than just about anything else. As long as we're agreed on that, I'm OK. :) Doesn't a stiff-legged deadlift have involve spinal flexion? Otherwise you'd be picking a weight that would be the length of your torso in front of you and then you'd fall over forwards, no?

Thank you, Marlon.

-S-
 
I guess it depends on your flexibility especially in your hamstrings.
Dan's video and article was originally about the question what is the difference between a swing and a squat. The article really helped me to understand the difference and to understand when a swing is done wrong ("a swing is not a squat").
 
Marlon, Gray Cook posted a video on this subject that I thought explained it clearly and succinctly. I'm pretty sure I posted that link here - let me see if I can find it.

Here we go

http://www.strongfirst.com/communit...-differences-between-deadlift-and-squat.5574/

It's not about a swing and a squat, but rather about a deadlift and a squat, but I think you'll find it informative.

The swing versus squat thing - that is to correct people who tend not to hip hinge enough in their swings. It's harder to make the same mistake in a barbell deadlift because the bar gets in the way.

Hope this is helpful to you.

-S-
 
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