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Other/Mixed New training block, Isometrics as primary resistance training

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
@marvinthemartian

After a year plus doing these I am 100% convinced the return from doing these other than at long muscle length using a single joint angle is probably not worth the additional time.

I would also spin these out a bit, MVC iso every day is going to get difficult mentally and physically.

Currently I am running an isometric/isotonic hybrid, an approach I’ve wanted to do for years but never was able to manage the technical aspect and keep it simple.

In a nutshell, one 20sec isometric, a 10sec break, just long enough to transition to a sandbag, and AMRAP in 25 seconds with a 50% (roughly) 1RM load performed rapidly - between 8 and 15 reps depending on the lift.

Two of those and finish with a 30sec isometric hold, giving myself a minute between “sets” and two minutes between exercises. This is giving me a nice hypertrophic fizz while high tension remains the star of the show. So far so good.
 
Hi @North Coast Miller,

Not sure if this was posted already, but just listening to Mark Bell's Power Project podcast episode with the Phoenix Suns S&C coach Cory Schlesinger (episode 679). He mentions utilising overcoming and yielding isometrics to train the players during the season. Just something you might be interested in.
 
Hi @North Coast Miller,

Not sure if this was posted already, but just listening to Mark Bell's Power Project podcast episode with the Phoenix Suns S&C coach Cory Schlesinger (episode 679). He mentions utilising overcoming and yielding isometrics to train the players during the season. Just something you might be interested in.
Will give a listen.

This is a pretty good article on sprint training:
 
Will give a listen.

This is a pretty good article on sprint training:

That was a great article! I had never heard of tendon creep before. For the last few months I've been doing Schroeder's Extreme Isometrics and have been doing 90 second holds for pretty much everything except the hangs. I'm seeing some really unexpected benefits and I think I'm going to stick with them for awhile, aiming for 3 minute holds.

Here are some interesting articles I found on "tendon creep":


 
That was a great article! I had never heard of tendon creep before. For the last few months I've been doing Schroeder's Extreme Isometrics and have been doing 90 second holds for pretty much everything except the hangs. I'm seeing some really unexpected benefits and I think I'm going to stick with them for awhile, aiming for 3 minute holds.

Here are some interesting articles I found on "tendon creep":


I have to wonder what happens to tendon creep after longer periods of isometric training. Does increasing stiffness in the tendon resist this over time?
 
I have no idea. I started googling knowing absolutely nothing about tendon creep and finished googling knowing only slightly more. There aren't many people talking about it.
Same. I came across the research demonstrating large increases in stiffness, and some more demonstrating just how important that is to power production. Am not sure if the tendon is only stiff when force is rapidly applied or what happens longer term.
 
Same. I came across the research demonstrating large increases in stiffness, and some more demonstrating just how important that is to power production. Am not sure if the tendon is only stiff when force is rapidly applied or what happens longer term.

That's something Joel Seedman talks about with his Eccentric Isometrics program. He might be the most hated trainer on the internet, but I've gotten a lot out of his work. Even if one thinks he's an idiot, he's a great source for research on the subject because he bases his crazy ideas on legit research.
 
That was a great article! I had never heard of tendon creep before. For the last few months I've been doing Schroeder's Extreme Isometrics and have been doing 90 second holds for pretty much everything except the hangs. I'm seeing some really unexpected benefits and I think I'm going to stick with them for awhile, aiming for 3 minute holds.

Here are some interesting articles I found on "tendon creep":



How many times a week are you doing this just now?

I managed a 4.20 left leg forwards lunge and a 3.42 right leg forwards lunge .... I need longer between legs.

Not too long ago I got a 2.32 bottom of pushup and a 1.45 hang.

I 'enjoyed' this type of training but it kicked my backside and I needed rest from it. Not sure if I was doing something wrong, but those who say that you can do this (near) daily are impressive.

Richard
 
How many times a week are you doing this just now?

I managed a 4.20 left leg forwards lunge and a 3.42 right leg forwards lunge .... I need longer between legs.

Not too long ago I got a 2.32 bottom of pushup and a 1.45 hang.

I 'enjoyed' this type of training but it kicked my backside and I needed rest from it. Not sure if I was doing something wrong, but those who say that you can do this (near) daily are impressive.

Richard

Overall, I'm doing them twice a week. They were exhausting to me, too, until I learned how to breathe, stay calm and stay present during the exercises. Now I feel like I could do them every single day without an issue. I also bumped up the holds to two minutes this week. I feel like getting to 3 (or 5) minute holds won't be a physical challenge, but a psychological challenge as I struggle to keep my body calm during the holds.
 
Not sure if I was doing something wrong, but those who say that you can do this (near) daily are impressive.
Back in my martial arts days we trained horse stance for endurance, a thighs-parallel to floor horse stance. The black belt test for our school had a notorious 1-hour hold that was mandatory to pass. The best I ever got was around 12 minutes. I was around 20 years old and it was haaaaarrrrd.

Those that say they can do 5 minute holds daily….especially if it’s multiple body parts…That is seriously impressive, and I’d like to know everything else they are doing. Like, are they actually able to maintain muscular contraction that whole time? Or do they just end up “resting” on connective tissues?! Or what?!?!

On a side note: it was recommended to me to try isos for a shoulder issue during pushups, and now this has me thinking….
 
When I was doing these for 4-6 week blocks I was only able to do 2 sessions per week of 20 second holds and was pretty frazzled from it. These were improvised and few actually were an honest MVC. When I started my experiment I couldn’t hold longer than 12.

These days I can do 3-4 sessions per week ABA, BAB. My max holds are about 25 seconds, some holds like squat, bicep, tricep I often cannot get even to 20 without bonking. These are MVC, hold tension on inhale, increase on exhale.
 
Back in my martial arts days we trained horse stance for endurance, a thighs-parallel to floor horse stance. The black belt test for our school had a notorious 1-hour hold that was mandatory to pass. The best I ever got was around 12 minutes. I was around 20 years old and it was haaaaarrrrd.

Those that say they can do 5 minute holds daily….especially if it’s multiple body parts…That is seriously impressive, and I’d like to know everything else they are doing. Like, are they actually able to maintain muscular contraction that whole time? Or do they just end up “resting” on connective tissues?! Or what?!?!

On a side note: it was recommended to me to try isos for a shoulder issue during pushups, and now this has me thinking….

In one of his videos, Tim Anderson says there's really no difference between crawling for 3 minutes or crawling for 10 minutes. (And this make sense: it's aerobic at that point.) He says the way you get to crawling for extended lengths of time is to belly breathe, relax, and reassure yourself that the discomfort is okay. I think this is the key to long duration isometrics and seems to be the same thing Jay Schroeder is saying when he explains that his training methods are about working with the CNS.
 
I think its also important to distinguish between types of isometric. Extreme isos involve a sub-max, semi passive postural component. The posture produces the effect.

An MVC or overcoming iso at a given % output will be bound by the same rules that apply to isotonics - you’ll hit a point where tension collapses and the effort ceases no matter how much you want it to continue.
 
In one of his videos, Tim Anderson says there's really no difference between crawling for 3 minutes or crawling for 10 minutes. (And this make sense: it's aerobic at that point.) He says the way you get to crawling for extended lengths of time is to belly breathe, relax, and reassure yourself that the discomfort is okay. I think this is the key to long duration isometrics and seems to be the same thing Jay Schroeder is saying when he explains that his training methods are about working with the CNS.
This is so true. A couple of years ago saw me end a 2.5 year stretch were all I did was crawl. Remember hitting 10 minutes and amending level 1 and 2 workshops to find out I was breathing too high up into my chest.

I dropped my times down again and started focusing on breathing. I retested my long forwards and long backwards crawl within the last year and got 65 minutes knees up backwards and 66 minutes knees up forwards (I was determined to beat my 65 minute backwards PB, so as soon as I hit 66 minutes my body gave in haha). This was almost all breathing. I was shaking on both efforts but literally just thought about breathing and almost nothing else.*

That mindset definitely helped me get to my recent 2.32 PB on bottom of pushup. The lunge is horrible because you have to do it twice haha....the realisation of this if all mental, so I agree that it is a mental thing.

Long ISO's for me are just about pulling into a position and then just hanging out and breathing. Yes you have to actively pull down into it, but after that it's kind of a 'breathing behind a wall of tension' scenario.

I say this and can figure it out in my head....but accumulating 5 minutes of each movement (whether in one go or multiple sets) daily still seems amazing.

Richard


* Side note - as an OS instructor all that all I had essentially been doing leading up to my PB's was demoing resets (and similar type movements) to clients in volume of 1000's or reps a week....that and focusing some time on movements further down the developmental pyramid than crawling eg deadbugs (usually loaded), prone paddles etc.
 
Can you tell me more about this? I've been noticing my posture seems to influence my ability to endure the hold, but I wasn't sure if it was my imagination or not.
For the most common extreme isometrics - split lunge and below grade pushup, the stretch is doing the work. You only need to exert enough to maintain the posture, and very few posture options will work in that role.

Compare that to performing a lunge under a fixed bar and attempting to drive it upward with 100% effort. Most people wouldn’t last 15 seconds before force production tanked.
 
For the most common extreme isometrics - split lunge and below grade pushup, the stretch is doing the work. You only need to exert enough to maintain the posture, and very few posture options will work in that role.

Compare that to performing a lunge under a fixed bar and attempting to drive it upward with 100% effort. Most people wouldn’t last 15 seconds before force production tanked.
I try and actively pull shoulder blades together throughout the bottom of a pushup hold....although you nailed it when you said force production would drop.

I have been giving some thought to the volume you could use that could make each set doable and avoiding failure....

Something along the lines of - if 2 minutes was your max long lunge hold time, then performing multiple sets of 1 minute. Maybe 4 sets of 1 minute.

It's a work in progress .... it also continues the debate that is as old as time. Volume or intensity haha.

Richard
 
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