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Kettlebell Thread for the Newbies...

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Will, Did I correctly understand you to say you have been a kettlebell practitioner for a year and went to a one-day course somewhere along the way?
More seriously, yes. See below.
If so, where in your journey did you take the course and how would you rate it's impact on your practice?
Much later than I should have. The instruction was excellent and the impact was significant. See below.
Do you use a heart rate monitor?
At this point, no. That may change as resources permit.

Lew,
That is correct. However, there is some back story. I actually met Pavel at The Arnold many years ago. I cannot recall the year but I do recall that he was set up next to the USMC and they were doing a pull-up challenge. I missed my opportunity to dive in, at that point. I did pick up Super Joints and Relax into Stretch but did not go any further. So, I have been aware of kettlebells for awhile.

I spent a bunch of time and money on mainstream training most of my adult life. In May of 2013, I started at a community class offered by a competitive CrossFit box. The class is designed as a free extra class for members; free drop-in for CrossFitters traveling or at a box that doesn't have a Saturday class; or for individuals in the community who do not have the means to join. It is a class programmed for anyone who walks through the door, free to all indefinitely.

As a result, that meant no barbell work and any iron we used were kettlebells. So, I have been working with the kettlebell periodically since the Summer of 2013. Later in 2013, I started a 1 Million Meter rowing goal. As a result, I spent a lot of time in front of a poster with the following (emphasis added) listed:

1) Half squat produce half results.

2) Not Squatting is bad for the knees.

3) Heels down, chest up, knees out, butt back.

4) Breathe into your belly, not your chest.

5) Never use the tampon bar. Ever.

6) Smith machine squats aren’t squats.

7) If the Russians are doing it, you should too.

8) You ain’t squat if you can’t squat.

9) Women are encourages to out-squat their partners.

10) A squat is the foundation of all fitness programs.

As I unpacked the rowing goal, I was also doing a couple classes per week. Early on though, I decided that I would not do American Swings, period. If questioned, I just had folks see Rule #7. :)

Last Fall, October of 2014, I had completed my Million Meter rowing goal and was looking towards 2015 goals. Two things popped up on my radar. First, was the TSC. Second, was Simple & Sinister. I set me sights toward TSC without having a good foundation, read as Simple or Sinister, and began to work and refine with YouTube the Two-handed Russian Swing as well as the Snatch. My Deadlift was pretty solid. However, due to my weight, pull-ups were a no-go.

As I did research, I refined the work I was doing but it was more Snatch oriented than Swing. I also dabbled with the Yoke, Atlas Stones, Slam balls while doing 2-3 CF classes per week. It appeared I was making progress but you never know until you get in front of an instructor. Since I was putting in the time, my wife was extremely encouraging when I mentioned that StrongFirst was offering a course, locally.

Leading up to the SFG course, I tweaked my back pretty good doing Yoke walks. I saw a chiropractor and after some significant adjustments, ice and mobility work I was good to go. However, I was afraid that I might re-injure myself so I switched to "just" Russian Swings and Turkish Get Ups. I went into the class prepared to work and was exceptionally happy with how well I felt throughout.

Anyway, the SFG course I attended in Houston occurred in August of 2015 with Karen Smith. In hindsight, I should have taken the course much earlier. I believe taking the class offers more than just instruction. For me, it validated my decision. It also offered some credibility to my family and friends. Especially, those I train around. Mind you, I am still at that competitive CF box. Since it is an open space, I set up next to the kettlebells on the main floor alongside others or even a class, depending on the time. I stopped regularly attending CF classes in September and officially in October.

My local coaches are serious about CF, both method and sport. However, programming related conversation tends to start with "What are you goals?" Since, I have done my research; received instruction; have an answer and move well then there is no issue. It certainly helps that I can point to lists like the one above or Mark Sisson's Primal Template, both of which hang in the box, as responses, if necessary.

In conclusion, get into a class ASAP. Also, budget for continuing education. Read the previous as either periodically retaking the SFG course; taking another SF course (B or L) or moving on for certification. I mention taking another course because my impression is that the courses complement each other. Also, it would seem likely that one might run into an SFG instructor in one of the other courses who could cast a critical eye over your Swing and TGU either at lunch or after class.

Anyway, I hope this helps. Apologies for the long reply. Live well!
 
Last edited:
More seriously, yes. See below.

Much later than I should have. The instruction was excellent and the impact was significant. See below.

At this point, no. That may change as resources permit.

Lew,
That is correct. However, there is some back story. I actually met Pavel at The Arnold many years ago. I cannot recall the year but I do recall that he was set up next to the USMC and they were doing a pull-up challenge. I missed my opportunity to dive in, at that point. I did pick up Super Joints and Relax into Stretch but did not go any further. So, I have been aware of kettlebells for awhile.

I spent a bunch of time and money on mainstream training most of my adult life. In May of 2013, I started at a community class offered by a competitive CrossFit box. The class is designed as a free extra class for members; free drop-in for CrossFitters traveling or at a box that doesn't have a Saturday class; or for individuals in the community who do not have the means to join. It is a class programmed for anyone who walks through the door, free to all indefinitely.

As a result, that meant no barbell work and any iron we used were kettlebells. So, I have been working with the kettlebell periodically since the Summer of 2013. Later in 2013, I started a 1 Million Meter rowing goal. As a result, I spent a lot of time in front of a poster with the following (emphasis added) listed:

1) Half squat produce half results.

2) Not Squatting is bad for the knees.

3) Heels down, chest up, knees out, butt back.

4) Breathe into your belly, not your chest.

5) Never use the tampon bar. Ever.

6) Smith machine squats aren’t squats.

7) If the Russians are doing it, you should too.

8) You ain’t squat if you can’t squat.

9) Women are encourages to out-squat their partners.

10) A squat is the foundation of all fitness programs.

As I unpacked the rowing goal, I was also doing a couple classes per week. Early on though, I decided that I would not do American Swings, period. If questioned, I just had folks see Rule #7. :)

Last Fall, October of 2014, I had completed my Million Meter rowing goal and was looking towards 2015 goals. Two things popped up on my radar. First, was the TSC. Second, was Simple & Sinister. I set me sights toward TSC without having a good foundation, read as Simple or Sinister, and began to work and refine with YouTube the Two-handed Russian Swing as well as the Snatch. My Deadlift was pretty solid. However, due to my weight, pull-ups were a no-go.

As I did research, I refined the work I was doing but it was more Snatch oriented than Swing. I also dabbled with the Yoke, Atlas Stones, Slam balls while doing 2-3 CF classes per week. It appeared I was making progress but you never know until you get in front of an instructor. Since I was putting in the time, my wife was extremely encouraging when I mentioned that StrongFirst was offering a course, locally.

Leading up to the SFG course, I tweaked my back pretty good doing Yoke walks. I saw a chiropractor and after some significant adjustments, ice and mobility work I was good to go. However, I was afraid that I might re-injure myself so I switched to "just" Russian Swings and Turkish Get Ups. I went into the class prepared to work and was exceptionally happy with how well I felt throughout.

Anyway, the SFG course I attended in Houston occurred in August of 2015 with Karen Smith. In hindsight, I should have taken the course much earlier. I believe taking the class offers more than just instruction. For me, it validated my decision. It also offered some credibility to my family and friends. Especially, those I train around. Mind you, I am still at that competitive CF box. Since it is an open space, I set up next to the kettlebells on the main floor alongside others or even a class, depending on the time. I stopped regularly attending CF classes in September and officially in October.

My local coaches are serious about CF, both method and sport. However, programming related conversation tends to start with "What are you goals?" Since, I have done my research; received instruction; have an answer and move well then there is no issue. It certainly helps that I can point to lists like the one above or Mark Sisson's Primal Template, both of which hang in the box, as responses, if necessary.

In conclusion, get into a class ASAP. Also, budget for continuing education. Read the previous as either periodically retaking the SFG course; taking another SF course (B or L) or moving on for certification. I mention taking another course because my impression is that the courses complement each other. Also, it would seem likely that one might run into an SFG instructor in one of the other courses who could cast a critical eye over your Swing and TGU either at lunch or after class.

Anyway, I hope this helps. Apologies for the long reply. Live well!

What Faisal said, that was an awesome reply!

I look forward to reading your reaching Simple story.
 
Hey @Lew

Things ok, doing S&S twice per week, on top on my 3-4 sessions of BJJ.

I'm still working on my form, and have just brought some new Kettlebells which sit more on my forearm and not my wrist when doing Get ups.

I will be upping it to 3 x per week, once my MCL injury is fully recovered.

How are you doing so far?
 
Hey @Lew

Things ok, doing S&S twice per week, on top on my 3-4 sessions of BJJ.

I'm still working on my form, and have just brought some new Kettlebells which sit more on my forearm and not my wrist when doing Get ups.

I will be upping it to 3 x per week, once my MCL injury is fully recovered.

How are you doing so far?

I'm sorry about your wrist.

It's easy to do. One of my 13yo boys decided one day he wanted to be a Navy Seal Platoon Leader. He's the one that when he makes a decision, he's locked and loaded.

At 15yo Matt worked up to 20 perfect pull-ups and 500 push-ups every day.

Now, at 18yo, his right shoulder needs surgery as most of the cartiledge is gone from ~20,000 pull-ups and a half million push-ups. His record keeping is surpassed only by @Harald Motz!

He's 6'2", 221lbs(100kg), with a 32" waist. I'm proud of him.

Anyway, I digress. Is your wrist in no way repairable?

For myself, my nutrition is better, but not where I want it to be. I used to be able to make changes quickly. Now, not so much.

I found a way to improve my squat so I'm slowly improving there.

I've made peace with my limited TGU ability so I'm slowly making progress there.

The swings are a delight. I can feel the difference in my work performance. I am stronger, a tiny bit faster, and the job is getting easier.

After 2wks of 2h swings I tried some 1h at 16kg. I was not happy at all with my form. I found @Steve Freides blog on progressing to 1h swings, and will be using that methodology.

My daughter and two of my sons are wanting to do kettlebells with me.

My wife? The Zumba princess teaches 4 classes a week and takes 2 other exercise classes, so I have to accept her excuse of not enough time, for now. ;)

I am grateful for this forum.

Thank you all for your contributions to this wonderful community.
 
I'm sorry about your wrist.

It's easy to do. One of my 13yo boys decided one day he wanted to be a Navy Seal Platoon Leader. He's the one that when he makes a decision, he's locked and loaded.

At 15yo Matt worked up to 20 perfect pull-ups and 500 push-ups every day.

Now, at 18yo, his right shoulder needs surgery as most of the cartiledge is gone from ~20,000 pull-ups and a half million push-ups. His record keeping is surpassed only by @Harald Motz!

He's 6'2", 221lbs(100kg), with a 32" waist. I'm proud of him.

Anyway, I digress. Is your wrist in no way repairable?

For myself, my nutrition is better, but not where I want it to be. I used to be able to make changes quickly. Now, not so much.

I found a way to improve my squat so I'm slowly improving there.

I've made peace with my limited TGU ability so I'm slowly making progress there.

The swings are a delight. I can feel the difference in my work performance. I am stronger, a tiny bit faster, and the job is getting easier.

After 2wks of 2h swings I tried some 1h at 16kg. I was not happy at all with my form. I found @Steve Freides blog on progressing to 1h swings, and will be using that methodology.

My daughter and two of my sons are wanting to do kettlebells with me.

My wife? The Zumba princess teaches 4 classes a week and takes 2 other exercise classes, so I have to accept her excuse of not enough time, for now. ;)

I am grateful for this forum.

Thank you all for your contributions to this wonderful community.

Awesome Lew, good to hear things are improving for you.

As for my wrist, I had an MRI and some key hole surgery, but was told if I can live with it then I should, as surgery to fix the cartalige may not even work. It's ok if I strap it up when I'm training.

Impressive about your son. Hope his surgery goes well.

Do you have a link to that blog as I incroprated some 1 arm swings today. They felt ok, I can feel my swings getting better, but during a set of 10, some feel better then others.

My nutrtion is improving, but like you it can get better. Do you use Mu Fitness Pal? I do an find that really helpful and keeps my mindful of my calories. I also have a couple of friends and which also keeps my motivated seeing there daily tracking. Add me if you are my user name is Cr3do

I'm still only doing Get Ups to the kneeling position due to my knee, currently with my new 20kg Bell, which is a lousy better on the wrist for me!
 
I am 67 years old, grew up on a farm and had a US Army career. I am starting the S&S program in the next few days after several weeks of studying the Strongfirst website articles and discussions. I purchased the Kindle versions of EOK and S&S as there is valuable information in both books. I have a 16kg Eleiko (Swedish made in the Russian style) kettlebell and it looks like I need a 24kg very soon.

The S&S program looks to be the best for me as it is simple and it works. I had a medical exam recently so the only issues are some old injuries which shouldn't cause me any problems. There has been a lot of discussion about heart rate monitoring and an excellent article on the subject. I have read them and initially wasn't sure it would be useful to me as I have good understanding of my physical performance and recovery. Also it wasn't Simple. A local discount store just started selling iSports heart belts for $12 so I took the WTH opportunity and bought one. I got the free Endomonodo app and it works well. I did a test today making five one story round trips on the stairs in my house to get a baseline of my heart rate. As expected it had rapid peaks but I was surprised how quickly it recovered. It took longer to pass the breath test. I plan to measure my first “official” S&S practice then once a week as the breath test will work for me for now.

The first goal is the simple S&S when I reach it. I will stay with kettlebells after the first goal is met but bodyweight looks interesting so I may have to complicate my life in the future to work both in.
 
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I am 67 years old, grew up on a farm and had a US Army career. I am starting the S&S program in the next few days after several weeks of studying the Strongfirst website articles and discussions. I purchased the Kindle versions of EOK and S&S as there is valuable information in both books. I have a 16kg Eleiko (Swedish made in the Russian style) kettlebell and it looks like I need a 24kg very soon.

The S&S program looks to be the best for me as it is simple and it works. I had a medical exam recently so the only issues are some old injuries which shouldn't cause me any problems. There has been a lot of discussion about heart rate monitoring and an excellent article on the subject. I have read them and initially wasn't sure it would be useful to me as I have good understanding of my physical performance and recovery. Also it wasn't Simple. A local discount store just started selling iSports heart belts for $12 so I took the WTH opportunity and bought one. I got the free Endomonodo app and it works well. I did a test today making five one story round trips on the stairs in my house to get a baseline of my heart rate. As expected it had rapid peaks but I was surprised how quickly it recovered. It took longer to pass the breath test. I plan to measure my first “official” S&S practice then once a week as the breath test will work for me for now.

The first goal is the simple S&S when I reach it. I will stay with kettlebells after the first goal is met but bodyweight looks interesting so I may have to complicate my life in the future to work both in.

Wow, Boosh32, you are off to a great start! Or should I say a continuance of what appears to be a well-lived healthy lifestyle.

Welcome to Strongfirst! Although I am sure you will hear from @Steve Freides very soon if you haven't already.

I was a squid in my youth, the typical pudgy swabbie, and I've gotten pudgier over the years and decades.

I have no debilitating health issues, and at 53yo I am going to improve my health so I can avoid those issues.

I'm about to start week 4 of S&S. I struggle with the squat and TGU; the last movement to stand up.

But the swings are awesome. I'm only swinging 16kg but at week 2 I was already noticing positive changes.

This is my advice to newbies, from a newbie....

1) See an SFG as soon as you can.
2) Be patient. Start slow. Listen to your body. All to avoid injury.
3) Reread S&S as often as you can. On Kindle you can highlight the direct applications to make review quicker.
4) Stick to the program as is. I think you get that. It's SIMPLE and Sinister. KISS :eek: ifyaknowwhatImean :D
 
Do you have a link to that blog as I incroprated some 1 arm swings today. They felt ok, I can feel my swings getting better, but during a set of 10, some feel better then others.

My nutrtion is improving, but like you it can get better. Do you use Mu Fitness Pal?

First the link.
On the main page there is a blog down the left side.
Click the 'read' button across the top and that will activate the entire blog and its history.
Back on July 10th, 2014, Friedes put up a post about incorporating 1H swings in S&S.
Great info for newbies, and a solid reminder for the more experienced not to go too fast.
I've added the link to save you the time looking for it, but the blog has a LOT of great information, even for guys like us.
simple & sinister: progressing from two- to one-handed swings | StrongFirst

Second, I am not a MyFitnessPal.
I use an app called MyNetDiary that tracks all my macros and other stuff.
My Zumba Princess used MyFitnessPal to lose 135lbs and become HALF the woman she used to be.

Hope that helps...
 
First the link.
On the main page there is a blog down the left side.
Click the 'read' button across the top and that will activate the entire blog and its history.
Back on July 10th, 2014, Friedes put up a post about incorporating 1H swings in S&S.
Great info for newbies, and a solid reminder for the more experienced not to go too fast.
I've added the link to save you the time looking for it, but the blog has a LOT of great information, even for guys like us.
simple & sinister: progressing from two- to one-handed swings | StrongFirst

Second, I am not a MyFitnessPal.
I use an app called MyNetDiary that tracks all my macros and other stuff.
My Zumba Princess used MyFitnessPal to lose 135lbs and become HALF the woman she used to be.

Hope that helps...


Thanks Lew, the article is awesome, and will be my guide transitioning to 1 Arm Swings.

Cheers.
 
Excellent advice, thanks Lew!

1) There isn't a SFG instructor close so I will attend the next SFG Course in Europe. There just was one in Brno, Czech Republic so it may be early, I hope, next year before the next one.

2) No worries taking it slow as I am somewhat out of condition. Once I reach a basic level I can increase intensity. The Six Weeks of Fantastically Fabulous Fat Burning Kettlebell Workout is not for me.

3) I was an instructor/writer in the Army so I made a handout from the S&S book with key points of the swing and TGU. The ETK book handout has stretching, prying goblet squats, and hip hinging. There is a lot of good advice here in the discussions on the key points that expand the understanding of the program.

4) Sticking to the S&S program is what I will do. It is simple and it works.

How are you doing with your squats? I reread your posts and didn't understand what is limiting you to 90 degrees. I had concerns about goblet squats as I have knee problems. I studied the descriptions and was surprised I could do passable, for a newbie, squats and, most importantly, stand back up. It is all in the technique. This might not be true for everyone so common sense applies.
 
Thursday I am starting the S&S program. The time for study is over. Yesterday I was very relieved to learn BW means “best weight” and not “body weight”. I was thinking I would have to get very strong or lose a lot of body weight, both excellent goals but also little intimidating.

In my prep I added swing practice at half speed using the TGU shoe concept. It was very helpful as there is a lot going on during a swing and it allowed me train my body without being distracted by the kettlebell.
 
Today was the first S&S practice. The warm-up and 16 kg swings went well but the TGUs were very shaky with the 16 kg so I ordered a 12 kg. My MHR was 138 and AHR was 122. This is a little over the desired HR but there should be some improvement as the program progresses.
 
How are you doing with your squats

Marginally better.

I take an extra second or two on each of the 15 total squats I do for warmup and try to settle a little deeper each time.

When my knee hits about 90' I feel like the whole muscle in my outside thigh (quadriceps?) collapses. I have nearly fallen getting out of a truck too fast.

I also struggled mightily with my TGUs in the beginning. I could only do one on each side with 4.4kg. Again, that final movement to the standing position seemed nearly impossible.

Today, for the first time, I completed 5 TGUs each side, with those 4.4kg.

I'm also squatting a bit deeper.

Connected? I'm sure, but couldn't tell you how exactly.

I know once I get to a real, full, prying goblet squat, things will feel a lot better.

Keep swinging!
 
@Lew Good work! I think working on the squatting is helping with your TGUs. Keep safety in mind and if you tip over get rid of the kettlebell. I could do something that might be mistaken for a TGU with 16kg when I was preparing to start S&S. Last Thursday I started and after the 5x10 swings I was too shaky with 16kg to continue with TGUs. I switched to half get-ups and ordered a 12kg. Yesterday I added a 10 second pause in the upper position, a tip from ETK about easy days.

This is day four and it is soon time for the practice. My initial impressions are I can feel that I have been active but there is no discomfort. My breathing has improved and I don't look like a dog on a hot day. Through out the day my poster is straighter and I seem to be holding my abdomen firm subconsciously.
 
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When I started a month ago I could only do one TGU each side. Now I can do all 10, albeit with 4.5kg.

Because I am ~30kg overweight, (or undertall; I should be 6'7" for my weight;)) and I carry most of my weight in my abdomen, I've made peace with my TGU.

Since I'm already doing ~32kg extra weight, fat plus the KB, I figure I'm already 'simple' on my TGU. :eek:

Now all I have to do is increase the KB weight in inverse proportion to the scale loss!

Now, about those swings....

Seriously, my swing session is great. But by the end of my TGUs I am dripping sweat and my HR is in the mid 130s. Maffetone goal is 127, and I don't go above until my 8th set or so of swings.

(I put my HR watch on the kettlebell. Works great for my FT7)

So my question is, should I put active rest between TGUs to keep my HR down? Or just continue to motor through them?
 
Lew, I am progressing from 16 to 20 kg with TGU's. Currently doing sets of 16 -20 - 20 - 20 - 16 from each side. I have to rest in between the 20 kg sets in order to keep progressing with the weight. My plan is to compress the rest time after I am comfortable with lifting only the 20 kg 'bell.

Rest is not necessary with the 16 kg KB at this time.

I did drop my first KB last week. It was the second set with 20 kg on my 'Strong' side. I lost focus and got to flag waving going up on my knee. That'll sure get your attention quickly :)
 
Lew, I am progressing from 16 to 20 kg with TGU's. Currently doing sets of 16 -20 - 20 - 20 - 16 from each side. I have to rest in between the 20 kg sets in order to keep progressing with the weight. My plan is to compress the rest time after I am comfortable with lifting only the 20 kg 'bell.

Rest is not necessary with the 16 kg KB at this time.

I did drop my first KB last week. It was the second set with 20 kg on my 'Strong' side. I lost focus and got to flag waving going up on my knee. That'll sure get your attention quickly :)

Wow!

I guess I have all that to look forward to!!

Except for dumping a kettlebell, not looking forward to that, ever.

Thanks for your input.

So you advocate rest between TGU reps?
 
...So you advocate rest between TGU reps?

As a Noob, yes. I would not be progressing with the weight if I did not rest with the heavier 'bells. I don't use HR with the TGU's, just rest until I'm ready.
 
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