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Kettlebell Alactic + Aerobic continued...

Since last I spoke on this thread I've been on a barbell for strength, A&A (two different versions of it), and long easy distance run/ruck/step-ups or swimming split while at an Army course and during my ongoing Reserve mobilization. More specifically I ran this:

From September to late November: 3x Barbell, 1 A&A and 1 Endurance session plus 1-3 Jiujitsu or Muay Thai sessions a week (leading to a few two a day sessions). The barbell program was StrongFirst's Very Own Stress Free Strength program built around the Bench, Squat, and Deadlift with pullups as my main assistance program

The Top Set Method: A Stress Free Strength Routine | StrongFirst

From late November to early December: 1-2x Barbell (my take on a split from Mountain Athlete.com, 1-A&A and 2x Endurance sessions. Jiujitsu lessons were thrown in whenever I could. However I had to do a two week moratorium on upper body work due to two tweaked elbow tendons.

From late December to present: 2x Barbell sessions, 1-2 A&A swing sessions (each week I rotate emphasis), 1-2 LISS type runs. 2x jiujitsu sessions/week.

Thus far I'm seeing some cool results...for the runs I'm staying below my Zone 2 threshold at 153 BPM and travelling a bit further on said runs (.12 miles further), and I'm seeing lower heartrates for the swings at 24KG (I deliberately started light from the get-go), on the order of a max HR of 155 BPM this week versus 163 BPM max HR last week, and achieving 105 swings in sets of 5 this week versus 100 swings in sets of five last week. So far so good...

For the curious this is the program I modified from late November onward.

The Fundamental Four Strength Cycle: Front Squat, Weighted Pull Up, Hinge Lift, Bench Press, 2 Days/Week - Mountain Tactical Institute

My modification:

First Modification (late Nov-early Dec)

Bench: 8x3
Front Squat 8x3
Deadlift 5,3,2
Superset 2x pullups between each set

Second Modification:

Bench: 8x3 superset 10x Leg Tucks
Front Squat 8x3 superset a single pullup (will build from there)
Deadlift 5,3,2 superset a set of 10x Hand Release Pushups
 
Today's session was an Alactic and Aerobic kettlebell swing session (24 minutes) with 3x5 Goblet Squat at 28KG as a warm-up and 15 minutes of getup practice at the end (with both 24KG and 28KG bells (every time I did a single with one bell for each side, I'd move to the other loading).

As far as swings were concerned, I played by ear over those 24 minutes. Every third set was at 28KG, with all sets at 5s. I took down 25 sets for 125 total reps.

Maximum HR: 156 BPM
Average HR: 137 BPM

I may switch to doing 28KG swings entirely for 26 minutes next week (I'm raising the length of my sessions by 10% every two weeks until I hit 40-45 minutes). Due to military deployment, I won't stretch my sessions to an hour the way I would if I were back home.
 
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Harald Motz said:
An A+A interpretation with safety squat bar singles - it is not A+A, but not too far away. I think it fits well in this thread:

Click to expand...

I would say in my humble opinion, Mr. @Harald Motz , that this is quite literally befitting of an "Alactic Practice".
Insofar as the loading and recovery squarely place it in the CrP camp - it fits quite neatly into the A+A paradigm.

I see this as extolling the value proposition in IRON CARDIO by @Brett Jones .

Singles have an interesting value proposition, of the Stimulus vs Fatigue ratio.

Also: there are ways of making use of singles found in STRONG ENDURANCE Plan templates.
 
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LoneRider said:
Since last I spoke on this thread I've been on a barbell for strength, A&A (two different versions of it), and long easy distance run/ruck/step-ups or swimming split while at an Army course and during my ongoing Reserve mobilization. More specifically I ran this:

From September to late November: 3x Barbell, 1 A&A and 1 Endurance session plus 1-3 Jiujitsu or Muay Thai sessions a week (leading to a few two a day sessions). The barbell program was StrongFirst's Very Own Stress Free Strength program built around the Bench, Squat, and Deadlift with pullups as my main assistance program

The Top Set Method: A Stress Free Strength Routine | StrongFirst

From late November to early December: 1-2x Barbell (my take on a split from Mountain Athlete.com, 1-A&A and 2x Endurance sessions. Jiujitsu lessons were thrown in whenever I could. However I had to do a two week moratorium on upper body work due to two tweaked elbow tendons.

From late December to present: 2x Barbell sessions, 1-2 A&A swing sessions (each week I rotate emphasis), 1-2 LISS type runs. 2x jiujitsu sessions/week.

Thus far I'm seeing some cool results...for the runs I'm staying below my Zone 2 threshold at 153 BPM and travelling a bit further on said runs (.12 miles further), and I'm seeing lower heartrates for the swings at 24KG (I deliberately started light from the get-go), on the order of a max HR of 155 BPM this week versus 163 BPM max HR last week, and achieving 105 swings in sets of 5 this week versus 100 swings in sets of five last week. So far so good...

For the curious this is the program I modified from late November onward.

The Fundamental Four Strength Cycle: Front Squat, Weighted Pull Up, Hinge Lift, Bench Press, 2 Days/Week - Mountain Tactical Institute

My modification:

First Modification (late Nov-early Dec)

Bench: 8x3
Front Squat 8x3
Deadlift 5,3,2
Superset 2x pullups between each set

Second Modification:

Bench: 8x3 superset 10x Leg Tucks
Front Squat 8x3 superset a single pullup (will build from there)
Deadlift 5,3,2 superset a set of 10x Hand Release Pushups
Click to expand...
How did you like the top set method?
That is the one by Geoff correct?
 
Adachi said:
I would say in my humble opinion, Mr. @Harald Motz , that this is quite literally befitting of an "Alactic Practice".
Insofar as the loading and recovery squarely place it in the CrP camp - it fits quite neatly into the A+A paradigm.
Click to expand...
I think that too.
Adachi said:
Singles have an interesting value proposition, of the Stimulus vs Fatigue ratio.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. 2/3 years ago cluster singles (q&d style: 1 rep on 30 sec x 4 for multiple cluster) got me pressing C&P 2 x44kg fot some singles @ 85kg bw. If the loading is not to extreme, it can be done for a pretty long period of time. Threre can be said a lot about singles.

flightposite said:
60 heavy singles in one session is a lot. I am interested in what results you notice after completion.
Click to expand...
About a week ago, I got the 'homemade' SSB. With the SSB I had a lay off of about 3 months or so. My first sessiin with the new SSB was 30 singles then 45 singles and today's 60 singles. (On the other days I still squatted the SSB for doubles, triples, or fives and some bentpressing after). The new SSB feels so amazing.

The first 30 otm single session felt great while doing. Next days a mild dose of doms which kept me squatting anyways haha...todays 60 otm felt great and a few hours after still. Hr stayed pretty low in the session too. Another thing to consider is that I do timed on 30 sec...on the minute...on 90 sec...every 2min for years for maybe 80-90% of ny strength training.
 
I note that many A+A practitioners focus on one movement at a time e.g. snatch for weeks, months even years.

Is there a particular reason for this compared to alternating movements in the same session or on different days e.g. snatch one day, C&J the next?
 
paules said:
I note that many A+A practitioners focus on one movement at a time e.g. snatch for weeks, months even years.

Is there a particular reason for this compared to alternating movements in the same session or on different days e.g. snatch one day, C&J the next?
Click to expand...
I don't think that to be true IMO... When I was a member of AL's site they had a system of doing a 3 exercise sequence of 2H swing/snatch R/snatch L

I think the reason you don't see as much variety on the AGT endurance stuff is due to be limited on the exercise selection... You're basically stuck with doing swings/snatches/C&J/jump squats/power pushups and all 5 of those are very different stimulus IMO

1H c&p, 2 c&p, floor press, &dips all have similar carryover IMO... At least more so than doing 2H swings one session and C&J the other
 

today's voluminous session. Heart rate stayed surprisingly stable and I was able to recover after effort - so I went for 3r x75 otm.

paules said:
I note that many A+A practitioners focus on one movement at a time e.g. snatch for weeks, months even years.

Is there a particular reason for this compared to alternating movements in the same session or on different days e.g. snatch one day, C&J the next?
Click to expand...
A+A is the long game. The heavy (one arm) snatch works for many reasons: quick and rapid depletion of the CrP/ATP system on the biochemistry side. If you snatch a lot - eventually you will snatch a lot, if you're not getting bored...and reaping the benefits. You need only one bell, and it is the utimate minimal lift with a heck of general adaptations. The only downside I experienced is the toll it takes on the skin if the hands.

As I double clean and jerk for a bit over a year now, I find one arm snatch sessions in conjunction with double clean and jerks a great combo for life long A+A.
 
Harald Motz said:

today's voluminous session. Heart rate stayed surprisingly stable and I was able to recover after effort - so I went for 3r x75 otm.


A+A is the long game. The heavy (one arm) snatch works for many reasons: quick and rapid depletion of the CrP/ATP system on the biochemistry side. If you snatch a lot - eventually you will snatch a lot, if you're not getting bored...and reaping the benefits. You need only one bell, and it is the utimate minimal lift with a heck of general adaptations. The only downside I experienced is the toll it takes on the skin if the hands.

As I double clean and jerk for a bit over a year now, I find one arm snatch sessions in conjunction with double clean and jerks a great combo for life long A+A.
Click to expand...

Does this mean , 3 rep every minute on the minute for 75 minutes? With double 32 kg ?
 
Harald Motz said:
As I double clean and jerk for a bit over a year now, I find one arm snatch sessions in conjunction with double clean and jerks a great combo for life long A+A.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your continued wisdom @Harald Motz

Would you still recommend singular focus on either snatch or C&J for a period of time or do you see any issue alternating sessions of the movements eg M & Th Snatch; Tu & F C&J? Also, do you approve of clean and push press for someone still working on their C&J technique?
 
Harald Motz said:
The only downside I experienced is the toll it takes on the skin if the hands.
Click to expand...
Having this problem for a long time, lately (when my hands are beaten up) I use tennis sweat bands on the palms, chalked. That's enough to to go through long session at the summer, and there's enough feel of the kettlebell with exposed fingers. Also, works well while training outside at the winter at negative temps as hands warmer.
Happy to have you back.
 
@Harald Motz I have a question about aerobic.
I struggle to keep my heart rate below 140 in jogging, but did a 30 min row at 1 min 50 per 500m and heart rate didn't go above 100, and I was breathing hard, much harder than when jogging takes me to 140.
Any thoughts on this matter?
 
paules said:
Thanks for your continued wisdom @Harald Motz

Would you still recommend singular focus on either snatch or C&J for a period of time or do you see any issue alternating sessions of the movements eg M & Th Snatch; Tu & F C&J? Also, do you approve of clean and push press for someone still working on their C&J technique?
Click to expand...
Your alternating template would be a pretty good one...or a three days a week A+A alternating snatch and C&J...with 2-3 days a week of classic aerobic training...or other/no training that fits your needs/goals/priorities. Progress in one area might be a bit faster with focusing for some time on one lift, but C&J and Snatch really complement each other very well.

Alexander Halford said:
Having this problem for a long time, lately (when my hands are beaten up) I use tennis sweat bands on the palms, chalked. That's enough to to go through long session at the summer, and there's enough feel of the kettlebell with exposed fingers. Also, works well while training outside at the winter at negative temps as hands warmer.
Happy to have you back.
Click to expand...
I like to do my C&J with tight fitting gloves since last summer - as my hands get really sweaty I would need plenty of chalk. They work just so well, that I keep using them. Absolutely no punishment on the skin. Sadly no kind of glove, sock or tape work 'positevely' on my snatch.
svencandy said:
@Harald Motz I have a question about aerobic.
I struggle to keep my heart rate below 140 in jogging, but did a 30 min row at 1 min 50 per 500m and heart rate didn't go above 100, and I was breathing hard, much harder than when jogging takes me to 140.
Any thoughts on this matter?
Click to expand...
1:50/500m average heart rate not above 100bpm ???

To keep hr low while running...try go slow. I mean 'run' at a speed you could go. Build up from there...

 
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