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Kettlebell ROP support group

Analysis payalyis can ruin a man.
A wise man once said, paraphrasing here,...
ROP is your hypertrophy program until complete. Nowhere near complete for me right now, but with tweaks from swing programming in S+S , and Snatch programming A+A, and the satisfaction of taking C+P to the burn zone, I am really enjoying myself and seeing good gains.
And I'm not hungry all the time.
 
Inspired by this I am now starting my own ROP/KBSF block training phase, rotating C&P and LCCJ every two weeks, as in ROTK. The strength block follows ROP style programming and the power block single bell LCCJ plan KBSF Plan A/B. I will use the same bell for both blocks (which is a 5RM C&P, 10RM LCCJ).

I hope to progress to a heavier bell in both exercises in about 6-8 months and will report back in a couple of months.
Hi Bauer. Could you give a ahort feedback how this combination of ROP/KBSF worked out for you yet? Would you recommend this aproach (it is similar to the RotK Plan i think) or would you say just sticking to the plan is more beneficial?




Another question for erveryone else. Would it make sense to use a kind of a GtG aproach for RoP? I am starting this week another round now with my self made 28kg bell (24kg + 2x2kg Dumbbellplates + Lots of Ducttape). One thing that i didn't liked about RoP was the time consumption. But at some days a may have the possibility to do a few rungs during the day so i could shorten the time when i start the "real" workout. Would this aproach make any sense? Are there any benefits or downfalls to do it this way? I know that shortening rest times gives you a hyporthrophy bonus. So a lack of hyporthropy would be one downfall. Besides of that are there anything else to consider?
 
Hi Bauer. Could you give a ahort feedback how this combination of ROP/KBSF worked out for you yet? Would you recommend this aproach (it is similar to the RotK Plan i think) or would you say just sticking to the plan is more beneficial?




Another question for erveryone else. Would it make sense to use a kind of a GtG aproach for RoP? I am starting this week another round now with my self made 28kg bell (24kg + 2x2kg Dumbbellplates + Lots of Ducttape). One thing that i didn't liked about RoP was the time consumption. But at some days a may have the possibility to do a few rungs during the day so i could shorten the time when i start the "real" workout. Would this aproach make any sense? Are there any benefits or downfalls to do it this way? I know that shortening rest times gives you a hyporthrophy bonus. So a lack of hyporthropy would be one downfall. Besides of that are there anything else to consider?
I have written about it in this thread a couple of times: Programming Improv - Block Training Thread

I have made steady progress over 6 cycles so far. Here is some date after 4 cycles: Programming Improv - Block Training Thread

´My rate of progress has been faster than during my prior pure ROP 2.0 cycle -- at least when I only count my pressing weeks. Each two week block offers the chance of beginner's gains. However, in absolute terms this might still take longer for achieving a specialized goal (suchs as pressing half bodyweight). But at the same time it was really sustainable.

The last cycle has been tough, mostly due to health issues (not training related). Without my current cold I would have reached 5x5 ladders with my former 4TRM bell in only 12 weeks of pressing. Now it will probably be 13 weeks. I have also moved up a bell with my LCCJ.

However, Pavel challenged me to build some muscle before I proceed.

My current plan is therefore to run 1-2 blocks of BuiltStrong Minimalist with double bells before proceeding. That being said, I can easily see myself returning to two week blocks, for example alternating KBSF (double LCCJ) with hypertrophy grinds (for example, Fabio's die roll plan from the newsletter). I really like this approach, and feel that it helps with recovery and motor learning.

Re GTG: Pavel writes in ETK that you could take all day and that rest periods are not specified on purpose. I have sometimes done so, or at least split my volume into 2-3 micro sessions. This works just fine. When I reached 5x5 I could then compress rest periods pretty naturally, although I usually took very long rests before. I like to do my presses without feeling rushed and fill my rest periods with household chores, playtime with my daughter, or cooking dinner.
 
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I have written about it in this thread a couple of times: Programming Improv - Block Training Thread

I have made steady progress over 6 cycles so far. Here is some date after 4 cycles: Programming Improv - Block Training Thread

´My rate of progress has been faster than during my prior pure ROP 2.0 cycle -- at least when I only count my pressing weeks. Each two week block offers the chance of beginner's gains. However, in absolute terms this might still take longer for achieving a specialized goal (suchs as pressing half bodyweight). But at the same time it was really sustainable.

The last cycle has been tough, mostly due to health issues (not training related). Without my current cold I would have reached 5x5 ladders with my former 4TRM bell in only 12 weeks of pressing. Now it will probably be 13 weeks. I have also moved up a bell with my LCCJ.

However, Pavel challenged me to build some muscle before I proceed.

My current plan is therefore to run 1-2 blocks of BuiltStrong Minimalist with double bells before proceeding. That being said, I can easily see myself returning to two week blocks, for example alternating KBSF (double LCCJ) with hypertrophy grinds (for example, Fabio's die roll plan from the newsletter). I really like this approach, and feel that it helps with recovery and motor learning.

Re GTG: Pavel writes in ETK that you could take all day and that rest periods are not specified on purpose. I have sometimes done so, or at least split my volume into 2-3 micro sessions. This works just fine. When I reached 5x5 I could then compress rest periods pretty naturally, although I usually took very long rests before. I like to do my presses without feeling rushed and fill my rest periods with household chores, playtime with my daughter, or cooking dinner.
Thank you for your reply. Good to know. So i think i will stick to RoP as pure as possible. I also did read RotK and i found the principle of two week blocks very interesting. And i love C&Js so i thought it would be good to try RoP this way. But my main goal for the moment is getting stronger and slowly come closer for 1/2 BW press. So if you thing it will be slower for achieving this goal i will stay pure. Maybe i will use a 32kg Bell (my 1RM) for the lower rungs on light days and C&J it to get slowly used to a heavier weight. If i stick to the 13 weeks of RoP i could try a two weeks C&J cycle before starting another round hopefully with a heavier bell. This should also work out good i think.
 
Restarting ROP. First time I got some elbow tendontis. Today did 1234 x5 with 20kg. swings were 8 sets of ten with 32k. This time I decided not to do the pullups as prescribed. Instead I have gone for the fighter pullup programme after my ROP work,so just 5 sets but 6 days a week. On the variety days I have decided to do roman chair squats, calves and abs. good enough?
 
I don’t believe you should have done 5x1-2-3-4 if you’re just starting the program…

You shouldn’t hit those numbers for weeks.
 
Restarting ROP. First time I got some elbow tendontis. Today did 1234 x5 with 20kg. swings were 8 sets of ten with 32k. This time I decided not to do the pullups as prescribed. Instead I have gone for the fighter pullup programme after my ROP work,so just 5 sets but 6 days a week. On the variety days I have decided to do roman chair squats, calves and abs. good enough?
I concur with Bkb. But when you say "Restarting ROP" do you mean that you are simply restarting where elbow pain forced you stop? Even so, I would still suggest restarting long before the 8th heavy day.
 
Restarting ROP. First time I got some elbow tendontis. Today did 1234 x5 with 20kg. swings were 8 sets of ten with 32k. This time I decided not to do the pullups as prescribed. Instead I have gone for the fighter pullup programme after my ROP work,so just 5 sets but 6 days a week. On the variety days I have decided to do roman chair squats, calves and abs. good enough?
Well, if your elbows are bothering you, maybe the Fighter Pullup plan is not the best option.
The question is: Was it the volume or the exercises, or a combination that caused the problem?
I would stop doing pullups for a few weeks and see if ROP without them does bother your elbows, too - and then phase them in again.

And I would rather start by hanging leg raises for abs and pulling strength - and for decompressing the spine. And/or do the pullups heavier but with lower volume. Dan John has a great article on this and uses the 3RM Figher Pullup Plan:
 
I concur with Bkb. But when you say "Restarting ROP" do you mean that you are simply restarting where elbow pain forced you stop? Even so, I would still suggest restarting long before the 8th heavy day.
Yes, restarting where I left it around Xmas. I previously got to 12345x5 20kgs, I restarted rop with 123x 5 then 1234 x5. However I did some work before this, then felt bad about not finishing what I started. Elbow is not quite right, much improved, but none of the rop moves bother it. I am doing parallel grip pull-ups which feel good. I am 57 but have very little physical to do apart from train.
 
Yes, restarting where I left it around Xmas. I previously got to 12345x5 20kgs, I restarted rop with 123x 5 then 1234 x5. However I did some work before this, then felt bad about not finishing what I started. Elbow is not quite right, much improved, but none of the rop moves bother it. I am doing parallel grip pull-ups which feel good. I am 57 but have very little physical to do apart from train.
Ok, so you completed one cycle of ROP by reaching 5 ladders to 5, and the problem with your elbow came up during a second cycle with the same weight? The three obvious questions are (1) how did testing go at the end of the first cycle; (2) what did you do differently the second time around; (3) did you deload at all between cycles, if so by doing what and far how long?
 
Ok, so you completed one cycle of ROP by reaching 5 ladders to 5, and the problem with your elbow came up during a second cycle with the same weight? The three obvious questions are (1) how did testing go at the end of the first cycle; (2) what did you do differently the second time around; (3) did you deload at all between cycles, if so by doing what and far how long?
1. Never tested. 2. No sure what you mean - second time around is now, I am going to do my third session today which may well be 12345x5, the previous peak. One thing I am doing differently is not doing the pullups as prescribed, I am doing them afterthe c=p, 5 sets as per the fighter pullup programme. I think I will just do the pullups three times per week rather than the 6 as per the fighter plan. I did not mention it before but I am also doing some hand gripper work, again 3 days per week on the ROP days. I read this may help with elbow integrity. I am also doing a few stretches for elbows. 3. I was unaware that a deload was recommended, but I got to 12345x5 with 20kg late Dec, felt the elbows were an issue and abandoned the programme, but did other stuff, squat, bench (oddly enough bench press did not bother me but dips and cgbp were painful) mainly.
 
Ok, so you completed one cycle of ROP by reaching 5 ladders to 5, and the problem with your elbow came up during a second cycle with the same weight? The three obvious questions are (1) how did testing go at the end of the first cycle; (2) what did you do differently the second time around; (3) did you deload at all between cycles, if so by doing what and far how long?
Bearing in mind your post, I thought about what I was doing today and introduced a couple of new elements. So this is the third w/out after resuming ROP. I did 12345 x5 withthe 20kg. So that was equal to the last peak where I left it.
1. I did the first reps consecutively withut letting go of the bell. So 1 right, 1 left, 2 right, 2 left were all done in rapid succession.

2. I used a heart rate monitor. I chose a fairl arbitrary number 120 beats per min as the bottom, this for me is zone 2, 70% of max. So after 11 22 I did 3 right, put the bell down, waited till HR got to 120, did 3 left, waited 4 right, waited etc.

3 Using this method I completed the Clean and press section in 34.40.

4 had a few mins rest and then rolled the dice for the hard swing section. I got 6. I decided to try the HR method and as this was supposed to be hard conditioning I went for a heart rate low range of 130. Wth 32kg I went 15 reps, wait till 130HR, 14 reps, wait... 13, 15 14 13. I would not say this was really hard, but I will progress this in the future.

5 Pull ups - 6 5 5 4 3 EMOM then grippers 5 sets, 5 reps per hand, one hand per min, pretty much max effort.

6 Felt OK, not perfect, right arm still a bit sore, but I think on the mend. Will have a go at the 24k next week.
 
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Bearing in mind your post, I thought about what I was doing today and introduced a couple of new elements. So this is the third w/out after resuming ROP. I did 12345 x5 withthe 20kg. So that was equal to the last peak where I left it.
1. I did the first reps consecutively withut letting go of the bell. So 1 right, 1 left, 2 right, 2 left were all done in rapid succession.

2. I used a heart rate monitor. I chose a fairl arbitrary number 120 beats per min as the bottom, this for me is zone 2, 70% of max. So after 11 22 I did 3 right, put the bell down, waited till HR got to 120, did 3 left, waited 4 right, waited etc.

3 Using this method I completed the Clean and press section in 34.40.

4 had a few mins rest and then rolled the dice for the hard swing section. I got 6. I decided to try the HR method and as this was supposed to be hard conditioning I went for a heart rate low range of 130. Wth 32kg I went 15 reps, wait till 130HR, 14 reps, wait... 13, 15 14 13. I would not say this was really hard, but I will progress this in the future.

5 Pull ups - 6 5 5 4 3 EMOM then grippers 5 sets, 5 reps per hand, one hand per min, pretty much max effort.

6 Felt OK, not perfect, right arm still a bit sore, but I think on the mend. Will have a go at the 24k next week.
This may sound pedantic but I would say you're not running ROP. Rather you're doing some ladders.
ROP is about choosing a 5 to 8RM and building up the volume to increase the RM. Plus a whole load of peripheral stuff.
Even if you just want to vary the density I think I'd take the original approach with the volume increasing.
Otherwise you may get some issues with your elbows.
 
This may sound pedantic but I would say you're not running ROP. Rather you're doing some ladders.
ROP is about choosing a 5 to 8RM and building up the volume to increase the RM. Plus a whole load of peripheral stuff.
Even if you just want to vary the density I think I'd take the original approach with the volume increasing.
Otherwise you may get some issues with your elbows.
Next week I am moving to the 24 k bell. I think this is a 5-8 rep max. I very much doubt I will get 12345 x 5 with that bell.
 
If you start at 123 x 3 and work up, then in 13 weeks as the program is laid out, you should be able to.
Not sure about this. So I just got 12345x5 with 20kg. I train C+P again on Monday. going to use the next bell up, 24k. Do I go with this 1677331985782.png which to me says 123 x 5. Or do I go with 123x3 as you say?
 
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