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An often cited claim about kettlebells...True or False?

[+] Strengthened barbell lifts <---------- This is what my question is on

[+] Decreased times in sprints and running endurance events <------ Have seen this to be true in my training

[+] Improved power outputs in jumps <------ No noticeable increase or decrease, I seem to maintain power in this area with my general training regardless
No modality has magic power; rather it's the physiology of the training program that guides adaptation. While conducive to certain types of exercises and training the KB is not a panacea, rather just a tool that can have broad application

Respective to that fact, all the above COULD be true.
- training heavy KB deadlift, heavy swing - improves grip, posterior strength, we know power training could carry over to slower strength... could be true
- given ballistic/quick lifts programmed well, decreased times could be true
- increased force into the ground, ballistic exercises could help

Hope this helps. Personally I've seen more maintenance of other qualities I'm not directly training when I've done various KB centric programs, but I take that to be a very, very positive outcome.
 
My n=1 experience with this..

My old gym decided to give out shirts for gents if you can deadlift 315 or 405, 225 for ladies..

Most of my students got their 315 deadlift shirts a week within the announcement of the incentive.. they were swinging anywhere from 24-40kg

But how special is a 315lbs deadlift? It depends on the weight of the trainee, but still.

Training or sports experience of any kind seems to carry over to another training modality really well. The training often goes really well and fast right from the start.

The carryover from everything to everything is very real. Everyone can just consider how much they deadlifted the first time they tried. But the carryover depends on the intensity and the effort one is used to.
 
I had another thought about the transfer of strength between kettlebells and barbells. What if the difference of adaptation is not in the muscles, but in all the non-contractile components - joints, tendons, spinal discs and so on? From PTTP:
Screenshot from 2023-03-16 22-01-18.png
Going with that reasoning, it should be obvious why kettlebell (or dumbbell, or bodyweight) strength doesn't translate to barbell lifts 1:1. A 40 kg kettlebell press may elicit muscular tension similar to say, a 100 kg strict barbell MP - but for the spinal discs it's still just a 40 kg and it will not prepare them enough for supporting 2,5 times more.

Many lifts and training modalities are bolstered by arguments about their "low impact" on the joints. But perhaps at least some "high impact" is warranted for these if you want optimal strength development. Maybe an occasional barbell deadlift (or rack pull for even larger stimulus) is a warranted supplement to a kettlebell program.
 
I had another thought about the transfer of strength between kettlebells and barbells. What if the difference of adaptation is not in the muscles, but in all the non-contractile components - joints, tendons, spinal discs and so on? From PTTP:
View attachment 20833
Going with that reasoning, it should be obvious why kettlebell (or dumbbell, or bodyweight) strength doesn't translate to barbell lifts 1:1. A 40 kg kettlebell press may elicit muscular tension similar to say, a 100 kg strict barbell MP - but for the spinal discs it's still just a 40 kg and it will not prepare them enough for supporting 2,5 times more.

Many lifts and training modalities are bolstered by arguments about their "low impact" on the joints. But perhaps at least some "high impact" is warranted for these if you want optimal strength development. Maybe an occasional barbell deadlift (or rack pull for even larger stimulus) is a warranted supplement to a kettlebell program.
This makes sense. To lift heavy barbells you need to lift heavy barbells. However, the original post also asked about carryover to jumping, sprinting, and distance running. I'd be curious how kettlebell, double kettlebell, and barbell work would comparatively translate to these pursuits.
 
I had another thought about the transfer of strength between kettlebells and barbells. What if the difference of adaptation is not in the muscles, but in all the non-contractile components - joints, tendons, spinal discs and so on?

“…indicating that tendon mechanical properties may account for up to 30% of the variance in RTD (rate of torque development). A correlation was observed between stiffness and maximal jump height in squat jumps and countermovement jumps…”

This was from an isometric study, but plenty of others have demonstrated tendon remodelling really doesn’t happen much at < 70% MVC.
 
This makes sense. To lift heavy barbells you need to lift heavy barbells. However, the original post also asked about carryover to jumping, sprinting, and distance running. I'd be curious how kettlebell, double kettlebell, and barbell work would comparatively translate to these pursuits.
Anecdotally in my case barbell training ensured stronger tendons and ligaments and denser bones mitigated the effect of a lot of pavement pounding that Army life requires.
 
Interesting study about the specificity of strength and the investment universality of muscle. Screenshot_20230318-115219_Instagram.jpg
 
Interesting study about the specificity of strength and the investment universality of muscle. View attachment 20846

I read the original Henselmans post. I'm not sure I agree.

I agree that muscle size is important. More muscle at the right spot for a given exercise certainly helps. But I emphasize the right spot, at least if you're conscious about bodyweight for a reason or another.

Second, I'm certain there are other factors for strength besides skill and muscle mass. Or, the skill is so general there is little need to differentiate between things.
 
For context:

What size bells are you using for most of your training?

What are your barbell lifts on average?

How much strength did your barbell lifts dip?

Thanks for all the replies. It really is just a question. The claim is that KBs alone will increase BB lifts. Not using KBs as accessory lifts to BB.

Age 42
Weight 204

My current lifts:

All lifts are done barefoot without belts, straps or sleeves.

Barbell:
Bench: 275
BSQ: 375
DL: 425
MP: 185

I usually train with 16-32kg doubles when I do an exclusive KB block. Lifts mostly focus on complexes and power.

My lifts have typically gone down at least 20lbs in BP and DL and as much as 50 lbs in squat. MP usually 10 or so lbs.

What I have noticed is using BB and KBs together has a synergistic effect.

Again, my question was specifically regarding the statement that KBs alone increase BB strength.
 
From someone not associated with the kettlebell, some of those questions are asked.
I think you'll enjoy....



He's a former elite long jumper. Most of his videos involve athletics and sprinting. And fun.

Great video.

I have now gone through two periods of only kettlebells and no barbell. The first was shortly after whenever Pavel’s podcast with JRE came out; I did kettlebells for a year as an experiment and added stupid amounts of weight to my barbell front squat, deadlift, and overhead press. While my numbers before that were not even remotely impressive, and my numbers after that went from ”not even remotely impressive“ to mediocre, none of my barbell work up until then had made the same impact. The second period just ended today; I did kettlebells exclusively for a little more than half a year. See the most recent entry in my log or my post in the Block Training Thread for the details, but the quick summary is I only had minor decline in my barbell lifts even though I hadn’t touched a weight that even came close to comparable in that whole period.

I speculate that the difference in results from my two personal experiments was my barbell lifts were way worse a few years ago and kettlebells improved my programming and filled a gap for me, so it made drastic improvements to my barbell lifts. Now, the gap was already filled and my barbell lifts were better so the kettlebells carryover wasn’t as pronounced.
 
Thanks for all the replies. It really is just a question. The claim is that KBs alone will increase BB lifts. Not using KBs as accessory lifts to BB.

Age 42
Weight 204

My current lifts:

All lifts are done barefoot without belts, straps or sleeves.

Barbell:
Bench: 275
BSQ: 375
DL: 425
MP: 185

I usually train with 16-32kg doubles when I do an exclusive KB block. Lifts mostly focus on complexes and power.

My lifts have typically gone down at least 20lbs in BP and DL and as much as 50 lbs in squat. MP usually 10 or so lbs.

What I have noticed is using BB and KBs together has a synergistic effect.

Again, my question was specifically regarding the statement that KBs alone increase BB strength.
That definitely adds more context..

My guess is that the WTH effect kicks in more depending on the size bells you use in relation to your bodyweight..

For example, being able to one arm swing 40kg made it easier for me to maintain a double bodyweight deadlift given that my "heavy" weight is when I weigh 150lbs..

Although for further context, heavy is always relative and while a 2 plate squat may not seem like much, I have a friend who was on his deathbed and later on wheelchair bound and is now back to squatting 2 plates.. the fact he told the reaper "not yet" is a huge PR win in my eyes
 
I read the original Henselmans post. I'm not sure I agree.

I agree that muscle size is important. More muscle at the right spot for a given exercise certainly helps. But I emphasize the right spot, at least if you're conscious about bodyweight for a reason or another.

Second, I'm certain there are other factors for strength besides skill and muscle mass. Or, the skill is so general there is little need to differentiate between things.
Firing rate is a big one, as is posture. Tendon stiffness contributes a lot more than most might think (according to research).

I’d also suggest that a lot of variety in movement allows for better application of whatever strength exists, when faced with an unfamiliar task.

Muscle mass in many cases doesn’t even track linearly with strength, even with the same individual.
 
Again, my question was specifically regarding the statement that KBs alone increase BB strength.
For some people, some of the time, this will be true, and it will also be true in other "crossover" areas. I'm fond of repeating here that, when I first started lifting weights seriously, my pullups went from 2 to 12 with no pullup training, just barbell deadlift and side presses (PTTP). I can imagine, but have never tried, a routine of heavy fives in the 2h kettlebell swing improving my deadlift. I should try it sometime. No science claimed here.

-S-
 
A little late to the party again!

In the early 2000s I basically gave up barbell training. I had injured my shoulders and concentrated my training on strictly cardio.
When I started with kettlebells and going through the ROP my overhead pressing became strong again without shoulder discomfort. I then hit up double bell work and eventually heavier double bell work and noticed the same thing.

Just messing around in my garage one day in like 2016 I started doing presses from my power rack with a barbell and noticed I was stronger in the overhead press than I was just prior to injuring myself in the early 2000s. The pressing groove of the kettlebell (s) had something of a tonic effect on me.

I can't speak to anything else but they definitely helped my ability to press a barebell.
 
A little late to the party again!

In the early 2000s I basically gave up barbell training. I had injured my shoulders and concentrated my training on strictly cardio.
When I started with kettlebells and going through the ROP my overhead pressing became strong again without shoulder discomfort. I then hit up double bell work and eventually heavier double bell work and noticed the same thing.

Just messing around in my garage one day in like 2016 I started doing presses from my power rack with a barbell and noticed I was stronger in the overhead press than I was just prior to injuring myself in the early 2000s. The pressing groove of the kettlebell (s) had something of a tonic effect on me.

I can't speak to anything else but they definitely helped my ability to press a barebell.
It didn’t work for me a few years ago; I haven’t seen good transfer between single kb <-> double kb <->barbell. I was super bummed out the times I tested because I expected it to be phenomenal but, alas, for me it was not.
 
It didn’t work for me a few years ago; I haven’t seen good transfer between single kb <-> double kb <->barbell. I was super bummed out the times I tested because I expected it to be phenomenal but, alas, for me it was not.
We're all wired differently as they say.

One other thing I forgot to mention in my previous post. My pullup numbers improved without much practice.....
 
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