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Other/Mixed Re-grooving/rebuilding neural pathways in the glute?

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)

the hansenator

Level 6 Valued Member
In another discussion @Geoff Neupert gave the following advice regarding dead bugs:

100-150 reps total of 20-30 reps per set seems to be the "sweet spot" for most with Dead Bugs, based on extensive testing over the last 10+ years. I like pushing to 5 x30 with myself and private clients.

Why?

Re-grooving/rebuilding old, disused neural pathways and tissue remodeling to support those pathways.

Would this idea also work with an overactive QL?

My QL on the right side has a hair trigger and always wants to jump in first any time the glute has work to do. It's just on the one side. I've been to physical therapy a number of time and, while it's much better than it used to be, I continue to struggle with it.

What if I did like glute bridges or some exercise that favors the glute over the QL using the guidelines above? Could that be the fix I'm looking for?
 
In another discussion @Geoff Neupert gave the following advice regarding dead bugs:



Would this idea also work with an overactive QL?

My QL on the right side has a hair trigger and always wants to jump in first any time the glute has work to do. It's just on the one side. I've been to physical therapy a number of time and, while it's much better than it used to be, I continue to struggle with it.

What if I did like glute bridges or some exercise that favors the glute over the QL using the guidelines above? Could that be the fix I'm looking for?
Do you know why your QL is overactive? Was it a response to injury? Poor posture? Imbalance etc? If it were me I would want to figure out the root cause and then address that, reprogramming the movement pattern is then a lot easier!

I’m coming from the perspective of having had a chronic hip pain issue where I kept trying to force the correct movement pattern but my body kept saying no! Root issue was a twist in my torso from hours of hunching over a guitar as a teenager! Addressing the shoulder, other hip and abdomen amongst other things got to me a point where my left hip could actually begin to function as it should. I’m now able to train the proper movement pattern.
 
Do you know why your QL is overactive? Was it a response to injury? Poor posture? Imbalance etc? If it were me I would want to figure out the root cause and then address that, reprogramming the movement pattern is then a lot easier!

I’m coming from the perspective of having had a chronic hip pain issue where I kept trying to force the correct movement pattern but my body kept saying no! Root issue was a twist in my torso from hours of hunching over a guitar as a teenager! Addressing the shoulder, other hip and abdomen amongst other things got to me a point where my left hip could actually begin to function as it should. I’m now able to train the proper movement pattern.
How did you do that?
 
S&S warm up hip bridges are meant to awake “sleeping” glutes. Deadbugs and hip bridges are different type of exercises in my humble opinion and hip bridges would require less number of reps. Hip bridges are more like “strength” exercise in my experience so probably daily 3x5 recommended in S&S would be the sweet spot for most.
 
How did you do that?
I'll try to answer briefly(ash)! Trial and error was a part, but I think what was key was being curious and exploring my body through mindful movement. Spotting where I felt tight and weak, where I moved in wonky and asymmetric ways. Then beginning to join the dots between this. So in my case, playing guitar with bad posture lead to the following:
-right hip lost internal rotation
-neck tight on right side from looking to my left at the guitar
-left shoulder tight and restricted through the front and serratus switched off from elevated shoulder
-right side abdomen restricted from leaning over.

However where was my pain? In my left hip and low back. Left glute was asleep, the hip was stuck in external rotation and QL jumping into to stabilise. Every physio told me to strengthen the glute med, but my right hip was causing my left hip pain.

The biggest help was working with a myofascial release therapist who mapped my posture and mobility and used that to explore the fascial lines connecting the various parts of my body. This release work allowed my body to begin to move more freely again which meant I could actually strengthen the weak and inactive areas. This began to untwist my body which was stuck in a permanent twist to fascial restriction.
What was interesting is the areas where I felt tightness weren't the root causes. This is why my stretching and self release work in these areas only provided temporary relief. Finding the root cause stopped these areas from tightening up again.

On the other side I tend to follow the following protocol for strengthening and activating
- self release work
- stretch
-strengthen at end range with isometrics of antagonist and protagonist
-active movement in and out of end range.

For example hip flexors
-use a psorite type device, or ball to connect with the hip flexors. Both to release the tissue but also to encourage that connection with the muscle. To actually feel it.
-get into half kneeling and move into current end range of hip extension
- camp out here for 1-2 minutes passively
-actively contact the hip flexor in that end range for 20 seconds building the intensity of the contraction throughout. This should feel like trying to pull yourself out of the stretch
-relax briefly and then repeat with the glute trying to actively deepen the stretch
-repeat another 1-2 times if desired,
- do something like ATG split squat for an active movement in that range.

Repeating this regularly works to extend that end range. It builds flexibility and mobility. You can do this for any joint in the body. This is essential the FRC (Functional range conditioning) system, search on youtube for FRC or PAILS and RAILS and you will find lots of this kind of stuff.

I also stretch the main fascial lines daily with a back bend, forward fold and side bend. I hold these for about 2 minutes which I find helps keep me in alignment and moving well.

That wasn't at all short, but hopefully helpful?!
 
Do you know why your QL is overactive? Was it a response to injury? Poor posture? Imbalance etc? If it were me I would want to figure out the root cause and then address that, reprogramming the movement pattern is then a lot easier!
Looking back, I think it was brewing for a long time. My history includes long stays in a hospital bed and a couple year period of depression where I really let myself go.

But one day, when I was trying to get back into shape, I was doing a set of double kb squats and lost focus. I felt the tension shift from the hips to the QL and it just kind of stayed there. It’s like a switch was flipped. Everything the glute was supposed to do the QL did instead. Even when I tried to do glute isolation exercises, I was either unable to perform the movement or it just hurt my back.

I’ve been to the doctors, trainers, and physical therapists and they did what they could. Things are much improved since then but hasn’t been completely resolved.
 
Looking back, I think it was brewing for a long time. My history includes long stays in a hospital bed and a couple year period of depression where I really let myself go.

But one day, when I was trying to get back into shape, I was doing a set of double kb squats and lost focus. I felt the tension shift from the hips to the QL and it just kind of stayed there. It’s like a switch was flipped. Everything the glute was supposed to do the QL did instead. Even when I tried to do glute isolation exercises, I was either unable to perform the movement or it just hurt my back.

I’ve been to the doctors, trainers, and physical therapists and they did what they could. Things are much improved since then but hasn’t been completely resolved.
A long time in bed is going to create restrictions and imbalances for sure. I know for myself, depression expresses itself in my posture which can hang around for a while after if I'm not proactive at restoring it.

Thats really interesting. The body protects the spine at all costs, which is why we get that 'tweaked' experience from something minor. If the body thinks the spine is in danger it will lock down all kinds of muscles to protect it. It's possible in that moment your body sensed a threat which it was seeking to protect? it may be the QL and CNS hasn't yet calmed down fully? In my experience trauma lives in the body in specific areas, which can also cause movement dysfunction. Maybe something bodywork could help with? If it were me I would begin to gently explore the problem QL with a release ball (not a lacrosse ball! Something softer!) and see what I find there both physically but emotionally too. See if exploring the area triggers any kind of fear or fight or flight response. It may not feel 'safe' for your body.
 
I'll try to answer briefly(ash)! Trial and error was a part, but I think what was key was being curious and exploring my body through mindful movement. Spotting where I felt tight and weak, where I moved in wonky and asymmetric ways. Then beginning to join the dots between this. So in my case, playing guitar with bad posture lead to the following:
-right hip lost internal rotation
-neck tight on right side from looking to my left at the guitar
-left shoulder tight and restricted through the front and serratus switched off from elevated shoulder
-right side abdomen restricted from leaning over.

However where was my pain? In my left hip and low back. Left glute was asleep, the hip was stuck in external rotation and QL jumping into to stabilise. Every physio told me to strengthen the glute med, but my right hip was causing my left hip pain.

The biggest help was working with a myofascial release therapist who mapped my posture and mobility and used that to explore the fascial lines connecting the various parts of my body. This release work allowed my body to begin to move more freely again which meant I could actually strengthen the weak and inactive areas. This began to untwist my body which was stuck in a permanent twist to fascial restriction.
What was interesting is the areas where I felt tightness weren't the root causes. This is why my stretching and self release work in these areas only provided temporary relief. Finding the root cause stopped these areas from tightening up again.

On the other side I tend to follow the following protocol for strengthening and activating
- self release work
- stretch
-strengthen at end range with isometrics of antagonist and protagonist
-active movement in and out of end range.

For example hip flexors
-use a psorite type device, or ball to connect with the hip flexors. Both to release the tissue but also to encourage that connection with the muscle. To actually feel it.
-get into half kneeling and move into current end range of hip extension
- camp out here for 1-2 minutes passively
-actively contact the hip flexor in that end range for 20 seconds building the intensity of the contraction throughout. This should feel like trying to pull yourself out of the stretch
-relax briefly and then repeat with the glute trying to actively deepen the stretch
-repeat another 1-2 times if desired,
- do something like ATG split squat for an active movement in that range.

Repeating this regularly works to extend that end range. It builds flexibility and mobility. You can do this for any joint in the body. This is essential the FRC (Functional range conditioning) system, search on youtube for FRC or PAILS and RAILS and you will find lots of this kind of stuff.

I also stretch the main fascial lines daily with a back bend, forward fold and side bend. I hold these for about 2 minutes which I find helps keep me in alignment and moving well.

That wasn't at all short, but hopefully helpful?!
Very very helpful! Thank you very much.
 
I am not an expert at all, but Original Strength and Extreme Isometrics really helped me repair a lot of activation problems in my body. You might find that baby rocking and baby crawling in high-rep sets can regroove your movement patterns. Or, if you can consciously activate things, long duration isometrics might do the same thing.
 
I am not an expert at all, but Original Strength and Extreme Isometrics really helped me repair a lot of activation problems in my body. You might find that baby rocking and baby crawling in high-rep sets can regroove your movement patterns. Or, if you can consciously activate things, long duration isometrics might do the same thing.
I second all of this, and would like to add that keeping your breathing in check during both OS work and extreme isos is one of the keys.
 
I've had QL issues on my left side for years because of work in landscaping. I also had glute activation issues.

From my experience going up to 3x30 on glute bridges really helped. I had poor glute function on both sides but more on my left side so even though I did them with both feet on the ground I worked on evening out the left one by putting more weight on that side. It took a few months but worked.

As for my QL, doing a lot of bird dogs and side planks, as prescribed by the good Dr Stuart McGill in his Big3 exercises also evened out everything and restored some balance. I did (still do) them daily with my Flexible Steel joint mobility in the morning. I think the combination of side planks and bird dogs could work wonders for your QL+glutes issue.

I now also get a lot of glute activation in the bird dog, which just didn't happen before my glutes got better.

This is a pretty good clip about the Big3.

EDIT: I have to mention that it took a few months for everything to be really good, but I did feel small improvements within the first weeks.

 
.As for my QL, doing a lot of bird dogs and side planks, as prescribed by the good Dr Stuart McGill in his Big3 exercises
I could start doing more side planks. Bird dogs are a QL dominant exercise for me and bother my back.

Some exercises seem to make it worse. Like, I tried a set of barbell dead’s yesterday and my foot bothered me for the rest of the day. The foot pain is tied to what the hip muscles are doing. It’s surprising how many medical professionals look at me funny when I tell them that but the PRI guys where able to explain how it works.

I think certain exercises reinforce the faulty muscle patterning so I’m looking for ways to really groove the correct patterns.
 
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Some exercises seem to make it worse. Like, I tried a set of barbell dead’s yesterday and my foot bothered me for the rest of the day. The foot pain is tied to what the hip muscles are doing. It’s surprising how many medical professionals look at me funny when I tell them that but the PRI guys where able to explain how it works.
Isn’t this just common sense? Stand barefoot on the floor and internally and externally rotate your hips. Your feet and arches will move and change. The hip is partially responsible for maintaining the arch in the foot. I don’t know why so many medical professionals can’t see this! It seems some of them think each part of the body works in isolation from the whole.

I suspect the majority of lower body pain and dysfunction has its root in the hip. And we all have dysfunctional hips from sitting all the time!
 
Thanks to everyone for the replies.

On further thought, I might have asked the wrong question.

First a couple more details I think are relevant.

I noticed fairly recently, by feeling with my fingers, that the very lower part of my glute wasn’t tensing very much. The rest of the glute was tensing up just fine but the bottom part was soft. After a couple weeks of practice I could tense that area much harder and that corresponded with an improvement of my symptoms.

I also tend to feel better when there’s more activity in the upper/inner hamstring area. In fact, that whole rear/inner quadrant, the “crack a walnut”, area seems to be involved.

So maybe a better question would be how to activate and strengthen the very lower part of the glute, the inner hamstring, and maybe the inner thigh muscles while minimizing the contribution of the QL?
 
Thanks to everyone for the replies.

On further thought, I might have asked the wrong question.

First a couple more details I think are relevant.

I noticed fairly recently, by feeling with my fingers, that the very lower part of my glute wasn’t tensing very much. The rest of the glute was tensing up just fine but the bottom part was soft. After a couple weeks of practice I could tense that area much harder and that corresponded with an improvement of my symptoms.

I also tend to feel better when there’s more activity in the upper/inner hamstring area. In fact, that whole rear/inner quadrant, the “crack a walnut”, area seems to be involved.

So maybe a better question would be how to activate and strengthen the very lower part of the glute, the inner hamstring, and maybe the inner thigh muscles while minimizing the contribution of the QL?
Mini-Bands and a NordStick.
 
Thanks to everyone for the replies.

On further thought, I might have asked the wrong question.

First a couple more details I think are relevant.

I noticed fairly recently, by feeling with my fingers, that the very lower part of my glute wasn’t tensing very much. The rest of the glute was tensing up just fine but the bottom part was soft. After a couple weeks of practice I could tense that area much harder and that corresponded with an improvement of my symptoms.

I also tend to feel better when there’s more activity in the upper/inner hamstring area. In fact, that whole rear/inner quadrant, the “crack a walnut”, area seems to be involved.

So maybe a better question would be how to activate and strengthen the very lower part of the glute, the inner hamstring, and maybe the inner thigh muscles while minimizing the contribution of the QL?
Sounds like all the Muscles that contribute to internal rotation of the hip. Have you tested your internal rotation?
 
That same area lights up for me when I load up my feet. My cue is to corkscrew, hard to explain but simultaneously pushing knees out while pulling hips in. Puts pressure on ball of big toe.

This for me is how I properly load my glutes and keep myself square.
 
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