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Returning my Whoop band... Change my mind

Is it still used to assess recovery and for example decide whether or not to put a previously injured professional soccer player on the field today or wait until next week ?

I’m not sure there’s a way to verify as the training staffs all keep the info to themselves, but from interviews it appears this may be one of the driving forces behind load management in the NBA.

I’ve heard Steph Curry and other Warriors players (my local market so that’s who is on the radio around here) say that they have no say in the load management and instead the trainers that monitor them decide when they have to take a day off. Steve Kerr mentioned it has to do with their biometrics and that it is beyond his understanding.
 
Just my two cents but the whole sleep recovery and tracking-thing requires one to wear a device while sleeping. I prefer to put my phone in aircraft mode, or not have it in my room at all. Wearing a watch/ring/wearable seems like it would interfere with my sleep. Call me old fashioned but I prefer no electronics in my room, including TVs/phones/computers/etc. Maybe an old school alarm clock just to wake up.

I've played around with HR monitors, trackers, and the like. But I keep coming back to how I feel. Do I feel rested? The more I track things, the more I'm not intuitively assessing how I'm feeling and recovering. Just my opinion on the matter.
 
Lol, that’s plain silly. Seems like a marketing ploy.
Hey, placebo effect is still an effect.
Same group of biz owners would do grounding, elimination diets, special river rock mats for barefoot walking, and had PMF machines and cold plunges in their basements.
The thought was to reduce stressors in every other aspect of life so they could use their “stress cup” for business. (If you are familiar with the stress cup theory)

Not going to lie, bought into it for a few years. And I do still kinda like the river rock mats for standing desks. But go figure it is a $20 Home Depot project.
 
But I keep coming back to how I feel. Do I feel rested? The more I track things, the more I'm not intuitively assessing how I'm feeling and recovering. Just my opinion on the matter
That is why I got rid of my oura ring. I’d wake up feeling great and well rested and it would say I’m on the verge of death because my recovery score was too low. Other days I’d feel awful with brain fog and like I didn’t sleep a wink, recovery score 100%.
Decided I’m probably a better judge of how I’m feeling.

It didn’t help that I actually read their effectiveness study they touted. 50/50 shot to tell if you are sleeping. So I figured I can check in with myself, flip a coin, and then decide how I’m feeling for the same effect.
 
I remember 15maybe even 20 years ago when there was a lot of initial interest in HRV for assessing recovery and deciding whether or not you would do a hard day or n easy day training. Suunto with the T6 and the Pod were big on the idea and a rowing coach called Eddie Fletcher was writing papers but it all seemed to fizzle out ?

Found him ...... Heart Rate Variability

Does anybody know what happened to that school of thought ?

I get the impression it is far less useful than first expected because you cannot say to anyone ( your employer, coach, Olympic Committee )

"Sorry cannot compete today because HRV isn't right"

Is it still used to assess recovery and for example decide whether or not to put a previously injured professional soccer player on the field today or wait until next week ?
Marco Altini and Alan Couzens use HRV in their training and seem fairly well-informed and accomplished in their sports, though they're both adamant about using a specific measurement protocol that includes a chest strap.
 
.......................... they're both adamant about using a specific measurement protocol that includes a chest strap.
If anyone is interested in this stuff the following notes may be a useful starting point ....... There are probably other, perhaps better & more recent software & apps, developed since I was initially interested.

The Polar H10 chest strap is capable of gathering accurate HRV data...........If you want to investigate HRV for your own use its possible to do it quite cheaply without spending hundreds of dollars on annual subscriptions such as Elite and Whoop etc

There are a couple of excellent free/cheap software packages that will do all of the relevant number crunching statistics and present various graphs from the H10 data
Kubios is free and will run on windows LINK
this next one is an Android app developed by a Doctor to monitor his own heart issues with a polar H10, it is a stunning app if you are inerested in HR, considering what it does it is very cheap at $10,

Although it was interesting to be able to see my own HRV graphs & data I never used it as a serious training aid.
 
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"Sorry cannot compete today because HRV isn't right"
Hi, this is not 100% a reality...in my world ;) a simple lifecycle of data science is: gather stats over a period of time-> analyze -> predict the future -> change behavior now -> question after a period of time: does the prediction match the new reality?

with HRV (and other tracking): the intention is not to wake up on match day and be shocked that your HRV was poor. The intention is to underastand what affects your HRV, then implement the good behaviours leading up to match day. You can view it as a more informed and personal approach to tapering off before the event.

I would love to track my diet as well as I track my HR! just do not have the will and capacity to manually log every bite that I eat.
 
The intention is to underastand what affects your HRV, then implement the good behaviours leading up to match day. You can view it as a more informed and personal approach to tapering off before the event.
@Xcal ....... Thankyou

@Anna C Read what Xcal said ...........

Almost shamed to admit it, but reading that was a bit of a light bulb moment for me.

When I was previously interested in this stuff my experience was that the HRV could be indicating a good day or a bad day and it seemed random and not related to how I actually felt. I never really thought about what do I have to do to get consistent good days prior to race day or what did I do yesterday to give me a good or bad day today. I simply remember the randomness of the results. I was using the Suunto belt and software at the time, have had another try since using the Polar H10 belt and Elite and the Kubios and the HR App mentioned above, again with random results.

Have you been able to get consistent good days prior to race day and also feel race ready yourself and be "in control" of the HRV results prior to race day ?

My best ever 2k time was done under the tutelage of a coach called Paul Smith who had me doing a taper prior to race day but this HRV stuff wasnt available then - it was a few years later I tried using HRV to pick the best day for various 5k 10k PB attempts and immediately lost confidence in it, but as you point out above I was doing it "backwards".
 
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Hi, this is not 100% a reality...in my world ;) a simple lifecycle of data science is: gather stats over a period of time-> analyze -> predict the future -> change behavior now -> question after a period of time: does the prediction match the new reality?

with HRV (and other tracking): the intention is not to wake up on match day and be shocked that your HRV was poor. The intention is to underastand what affects your HRV, then implement the good behaviours leading up to match day. You can view it as a more informed and personal approach to tapering off before the event.

I would love to track my diet as well as I track my HR! just do not have the will and capacity to manually log every bite that I eat.
Exactly! The question as always is what change does this investment elicit? I've spent a small fortune over the years on wearable technology, including Fitbits worth hundreds of dollars, but the only difference that's ever resulted was from my earliest, cheapest and most basic model - I did walk more steps wearing a pedometer ($19.99)
 
Have you been able to get consistent good days prior to race day and also feel race ready yourself and be "in control" of the HRV results prior to race day ?
Yes, I do get great results when I apply myself to it :) control of HRV is not something I try to do:) I simply go to bed and try rise at least 8h later....and make a stronger effort to do so in the 5-8 days before an event. my excercise tapering is now based on experience/feeling. but I were serious about a specific event (e.g. Soweto 21km) then I create a training project on the Polar website and follow their tapering advice. I would LOVE to add food consumption stats, but cannot manually log each bite.

Not that I have many races under my belt in the past 3 years, I do train in cycles of hard and easy weeks with an 'event' every 6to8 weeks (e.g. a hardest effort 10km, Simple on a KB, etc). although poor health -> recovery -> a broken bone restricted me in the past 6 months:( I just started training again last week, I will definitely continue on the same rythm and taper up my intensity according to the stats.

The day to day fluctuations are also useful when going through the phases of a a 10/21km training plan. You have your heavy days, easy days in the week, so you can choose to take a heavy or easy day on the instruction of the gadgets...but listen to your body first;) It's the same if you follow a program which says "Monday = hard", take it as great advice, but listen to your body and life priorities first, maybe do the hard on Sunday or Tuesday.
 
I was always curious about it but also realized that for my needs (casual athlete) I don't need anything more than an Apple Watch. I have a few apps that I have gathered that gets me all the inputs that I need, which is primarily - HRV trends/readiness/sleep quality/CTL/ATL/Min HR/Walking HR/etc. So I decided to not get one. Also as I get more in tune with my body I dont really need even the Apple watch (other than for the steps). Maybe in time I might just leave the apple watch and go to a basic Fitbit that can give me a few metrics that are hard to keep track off intuitively.
 
I got a FitBit and I think the sleep tracking and the HRV tracking are good.

At first I was sometimes surprised by a low sleep score in the morning when I felt good, but often started feeling off later in the day. Many times the FitBit proved to know it better in the morning than me.

The HRV also relates pretty well to my own experiences. Alcohol is typically really bad for it, for example. However, when it comes to simple strength training, I don't often find a good correlation between my HRV and training success. Maybe it would be different if I did more volume or if I was an endurance athlete.
 
Well I initiated the return process, we'll see how it goes. I appreciate everyone's input. I do think it was worth a try, and I think some people may get some good feedback out of it. Objectively measuring things that we already have internal monitoring always has the potential to be useful... As for whether it's ultimately valuable to an individual depends on whether 1) the external data seems different from the internal monitoring, 2) you are convinced that the external data is accurate and valid, 3) you are convinced and motivated enough to actually change behavior, and 4) that changed behavior actually then influences an outcome that matters. A tricky proposition for these companies to take on. But sometimes it works.
 
For me personally, I am trying to keep an eye out on an update of the Whoop since they have acquired Push. The incorporation of velocity data (and insights in power production; for instance for Q&D) would be interesting. (emphasis on interesting...)

For the moment, the Whoop wouldn't provide much new besides my Oura ring and Garmin watch. Even though the battery of the Oura seems to have had it's best time (now requiring a daily charge). Same as the majority of the comments here, I am not so sure if I want to replace it. It gives nice insights that are interesting, but honestly not more than that. I guess I'll wait until there is a Whoop 5.0 to see if any Push band characteristics and analysis is incorparated and re-assess then. Maybe I win some lotery in the meantime, so the cost is not that much of an issue either for what you get from it ;)
 
Well I initiated the return process, we'll see how it goes. I appreciate everyone's input. I do think it was worth a try, and I think some people may get some good feedback out of it. Objectively measuring things that we already have internal monitoring always has the potential to be useful... As for whether it's ultimately valuable to an individual depends on whether 1) the external data seems different from the internal monitoring, 2) you are convinced that the external data is accurate and valid, 3) you are convinced and motivated enough to actually change behavior, and 4) that changed behavior actually then influences an outcome that matters. A tricky proposition for these companies to take on. But sometimes it works.
I think you make a fair point.

One addition though: What gets measured, gets managed (or at least tends to...) even without much conscious change of behavior.
As far as I know, people tend to prioritize their sleep higher when using a device such as a Whoop band, just because they are reminded of it and know they will get an evaluation the next day. In this way, the app makes you rely less on willpower, but nudges you toward a different set of behaviors.

However, as Whoop is biased towards aerobic activitiy this can also be frustrating at times. A friend of mine complains that Whoop doesn't give her kudos for A+A Swings, but praises her for cycling to work. (On a similar note, the polar beat app usually asks me if I really want to save my timed glycolytic S&S Swings, as this appears to be a very light and short session....)
 
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For me personally, I am trying to keep an eye out on an update of the Whoop since they have acquired Push. The incorporation of velocity data (and insights in power production; for instance for Q&D) would be interesting. (emphasis on interesting...)

For the moment, the Whoop wouldn't provide much new besides my Oura ring and Garmin watch. Even though the battery of the Oura seems to have had it's best time (now requiring a daily charge). Same as the majority of the comments here, I am not so sure if I want to replace it. It gives nice insights that are interesting, but honestly not more than that. I guess I'll wait until there is a Whoop 5.0 to see if any Push band characteristics and analysis is incorparated and re-assess then. Maybe I win some lotery in the meantime, so the cost is not that much of an issue either for what you get from it ;)
Oura is will replace your ring for free if the battery is shot. They did mine. Was a fairly simple process.
 
I have been using an Oura for a couple of years and have learned a couple of things.

1. HRV is a very good indicator of “how you’re doing”

2. It is dramatically affected by alcohol (up to about 3 ounces is ok but anything more than that dramatically drops HRV and leads to 2-3 hours of sleeplessness in middle of night), illness, a BIG stress event (I do a long, hilly bike ride annually that I do not train specifically for and my HRV dramatically drops for a few days; though I also tend to drink too much afterwards), and late overeating (especially sugar).

I now…. Drink less, and take several days of laying low after REALLY overdoing it. I leave the ring in the drawer mostly.
 
Oura is will replace your ring for free if the battery is shot. They did mine. Was a fairly simple process.
Sounds good, but I read that this is the case within the warranty period. Mine is about 3 years old, so past that stage.

As well indicated on their website:
All rechargeable batteries are consumables and have a limited lifespan, so their capacity and performance will gradually decline over time. This is why battery replacement is not included in our standard warranty policy.
So, if I would contact them they most likely give the option of me replacing my Gen 2 with a Gen 3. ;)
 
An old school weightlifting coach of mine said that men can easily monitor their recovery via the same methods to assess ED while sleeping:

Put a band of tape around their male unit and if it breaks while sleeping due to erections while sleeping, you're good to go.

I don't know what the female equivalent is.
I was told that only works if you use duct tape.
 
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