Kettlebell 1 vs 2hand swings in S&S

[Michael Scott]

Maybe doing them for a "cardio" addition to your kettlebell session? I am still doing the two hand swings, and my cardio is challenged every session. My plan is to keep doing them, on occasion, when I go to the one hand swings here in a couple months.

To add to that, while I went against the book and did mostly 2 handed swings with the 40 for a few months before figuring out how to do the 100 swings wholly 1 handed, I packed on some belly flab at the front and sides. Now that I'm doing the swings 1 handed, the belly flab is gone - my midriff is all toned up nice.

I agree with the book: once you get to doing the swings one handed "it is the only version you'll ever need."

I don't see what I'll be accomplishing by doing swings 2 handed any more - maybe just once in a while if I'm feeling really knackered.

 

[Questionfear]

To add to that, while I went against the book and did mostly 2 handed swings with the 40 for a few months before figuring out how to do the 100 swings wholly 1 handed, I packed on some belly flab at the front and sides. Now that I'm doing the swings 1 handed, the belly flab is gone - my midriff is all toned up nice.

I agree with the book: once you get to doing the swings one handed "it is the only version you'll ever need."

I don't see what I'll be accomplishing by doing swings 2 handed any more - maybe just once in a while if I'm feeling really knackered.

I rarely do two handed swings anymore-the only time I do them is on my hard day for rite of passage; since it's an all out session that day, I usually alternate left hand/right hand/two hand just to give my grip a break...but the two hand just feels weird after so much time one-handed.

 

[Kozushi]

Maybe doing them for a "cardio" addition to your kettlebell session? I am still doing the two hand swings, and my cardio is challenged every session. My plan is to keep doing them, on occasion, when I go to the one hand swings here in a couple months.

I thought I'd think so too, but now that I'm doing them all 1 handed, since they're good cardio as well, I don't see why I'd want to do much 2h any more - except when very tired or something like that.

 

[Kettlebelephant]

I don't see why I'd want to do much 2h any more

Power production - You can produce much more power with 2HSs.
Hip "strength" - No matter how much you train 1HSs, you'll always be able to swing more weight with 2HSs. More weight equals more strength. Yes you could use the double swing, but I'd rather fit e.g. a single 80Kg KB between my legs than 2x 40.
Deadlift assistance - Experience shows that 2HSs have a better carryover to DL performance than 1HSs.

 

[Kozushi]

Power production - You can produce much more power with 2HSs.
Hip "strength" - No matter how much you train 1HSs, you'll always be able to swing more weight with 2HSs. More weight equals more strength. Yes you could use the double swing, but I'd rather fit e.g. a single 80Kg KB between my legs than 2x 40.
Deadlift assistance - Experience shows that 2HSs have a better carryover to DL performance than 1HSs.

That all makes a lot of sense. Even at the same weight as what you are using for 1h swings, you can put way more power into 2h swings and for a longer period also. Evidently some muscles aren't being developed like they are with 1h swings, but the ones that are, are getting a harder workout with the 2h swings.

 

[pet']

Hello,

For the same weight, 2H version can have a greater carryover on DL because it mimics more the latter.

I believe that both versions are very worth considering in function of the goal we have: cardio, power, strength, anti-twist, etc...

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[Steve Freides]

Kettlebell: Simple and Sinister is both simple and sinister in its methods. It chooses only two weapons to wage war on weakness.

There are also other weapons.

@Kozushi, try heavy two-handed swings (with one or two kettlebells - both are good) as part of your warmups for your S&S. Don't do many: 1-3 sets of 5-10 swings, rest enough that all sets are highly explosive, and rest enough after your last warmup set that your regular S&S doesn't suffer. Start with 2 sets of 5, and maybe that is enough.

-S-

 

[Kozushi]

Kettlebell: Simple and Sinister is both simple and sinister in its methods. It chooses only two weapons to wage war on weakness.

There are also other weapons.

@Kozushi, try heavy two-handed swings (with one or two kettlebells - both are good) as part of your warmups for your S&S. Don't do many: 1-3 sets of 5-10 swings, rest enough that all sets are highly explosive, and rest enough after your last warmup set that your regular S&S doesn't suffer. Start with 2 sets of 5, and maybe that is enough.

-S-

Thank you so much for the advice! I've been perplexed about how to benefit from both kind of swings. I'll start that today!

 

[pet']

Hello,

Put another way, once the average Joe achieves Simple, to what end would he need to train for power? What is its higher purpose?

I think that reaching Simple is a kind of milestone. It can be "enough" for general purpose. I think it can be good for the "average Joe" who wants to maintain a very good athletic base while staying strong.

Nonetheless, I think going heavier can become more or less natural if one keeps doing the program on an every day basis. Then, sooner or later, one may need to play with 36 or 40 to keep progressing.

In terms of "figures", Simple made me DL 2X bodyweight, allowed me to run 1h30 @10km/h very comfortably, I can ruck long time too, etc...

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[Steve Freides]

Put another way, once the average Joe achieves Simple, to what end would he need to train for power? What is its higher purpose?

We believe that there are great health benefits to this type of training. It's not just about training to increase power production and, in fact, if I understand correctly, it's not about that at all.

-S-

 

[Kozushi]

I can guess - it's about cardio vascular fitness, at least in part, right?

I did those 2h warmup swings today before S&S and I'll keep doing them. Doing them immediately after S&S is too much but right before works perfectly. It got my heart rate up a bit more overall I think while doing the 1h swings afterwards, which is a good thing, and I'm getting in some good hard stimulation for my hips, lower back, and front abs(?) too that is good for overall physical integrity. I'm also thinking of, when I am craving a second workout in the day, to do 100 2h swings for that second workout several hours after S&S. It's a related exercise, part of the S&S plan and goals (called "Wrestling the Kettlebell" in the S&S book), and it doesn't overuse the S&S muscles while actually benefiting them.

 

[Kozushi]

We believe that there are great health benefits to this type of training. It's not just about training to increase power production and, in fact, if I understand correctly, it's not about that at all.

-S-

So, PLEASE reveal the secret of what it IS about! My guess is cardio-vascular conditioning. Am I right?

Steve, I'd like to add that your hint to do two handed swings before the 1 handed 100 swings is quite clearly and obviously enhancing my workout a LOT. I can feel it in my abdominal area a lot more. It's all quite interesting because it isn't really a lot more work - I guess the secret lies in when it's done and it causes a lot more exertion for those muscles therefore.

 

[Steve Freides]

So, PLEASE reveal the secret of what it IS about! My guess is cardio-vascular conditioning. Am I right?

@Kozushi, I don't understand the details well enough to explain them, but I believe you'll find your answer in blogs by Pavel and by @aciampa on our web site. Links, anyone?

Steve, I'd like to add that your hint to do two handed swings before the 1 handed 100 swings is quite clearly and obviously enhancing my workout a LOT.

Excellent. Again, I don't understand well enough to explain, but I can tell you that I do this and it does work. My guess is that it patterns the movement in a way that you then try to keep for 1h swings. Having that pattern fresh in your memory and your body helps you "square up" the 1h swing better, I'm guessing. Plus it is getting you an increased total volume of swings and, so long as that doesn't lead to overtraining, that can help as well.

-S-

 

[Kozushi]

Steve, ought I to restart doing the squats before S&S too? I stopped doing them a few months ago figuring they were getting to be superfluous.

 

[pet']

Hello,

My guess is that it patterns the movement in a way that you then try to keep for 1h swings. Having that pattern fresh in your memory and your body helps you "square up" the 1h swing better, I'm guessing

Is not it the "potentiation" principle ?

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[Steve Freides]

@pet', I think that's what it's called, but "potentiation" isn't a word that I often use, for whatever reason.

@Kozushi, if you squat, you should have a purpose. It's a movement pattern everyone should have, and everyone should visit at least occasionally. I find a deep squat to be a real tonic for my lower back, but it's only because I focus on specific technical things when I squat, e.g., I am "prying" but in the specific ways I've learned help to put my back and hips in a good place for me. If my back is bothering me, a deep squat often makes it feel better immediately, so I have my motivation and know what I need to practice.

If you don't feel like it gives you anything, it's still a good warmup for the rest of your practice. Let's say that you should do some squats at least once a week. My preference, if you can goblet squat well but cannot do the same without a weight for a counterbalance, would be for you to work on going lighter and lighter with your goblet squat weight and try to figure out what you need to do to make that work.

An alternative might be to load squats after warming with light ones by switching to double kettlebell front squats. One could do a lot worse than to add a weekly session of a few sets of 5 in the double kettlebell front squat. Or use a barbell front squat but, for our purposes, I'd do them as we do our other lifts and skip the Olympic lifting shoes in favor of bare feet.

-S-