Bodyweight Can someone help me do one arm pull up?
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305pelusa
Level 6 Valued Member
On one hand, I hate you (in a good way!) because after all the work in took for my OAP, it kills me to hear someone 20 kilos heavier than me got it just doing one-arm push-ups
Frankly, I don't want to believe it but obviously you have nothing to win by a lying (sigh).On the other hand, I think it's really kick-a#@.
Also, just a short note. I know the OAP is doable north of 82 kilos. Daniel Vadnal is 86 kilos and can do 50 singles in 10 minutes (famous Youtube channel FitnessFAQS). Adam Raw, tipping the scales at 90 kilos, can also.
It's just that in general, it's not something you see much. Success is essentially zero unless you are extremely knowledgeable and disciplines like some of those people. Or somehow happened to get massive carry-over from pressing negatives the way you did! If I was 90 kilos, I personally would not attempt the road to the OAP. Having gotten a few injuries (nothing bad but could've been bad) at 65 kilos, it's just really risky unless you have some luck. Doable? Absolutely! Likely, or even a good idea? That's for the OP to decide. That's all
Kozushi
Level 7 Valued Member
Two arm chinups load all of your weight onto yourself. That is enough! Go ahead and do 20-25 of them if you can! That's plenty for a set! Anyone who can do this is a BEAST! Maybe those archer moves are worth it for chinups/pullups. But, a single armed one? No. Pointless, near impossible, and DANGEROUS! I've temporarily lamed myself because of this stupid, ridiculous, pointless move.
Two handed regular pushups can get too easy to be worth it after a while, so we can progress to feet elevated pushups, which I've found to be more challenging than one arm feet down pushups in a way (which might take some explanation which I won't put into this message), and archer pushups. The one arm pushup I think is not a replacement for this stuff but another move with mostly different goals (like tension, balance etc).
Then, for the lower body we'll need squats of some kind. Archer squats are probably as far as most people need to get, but you can progress to hover squats and even pistols if you're dedicated. Again, I've come to think of pistols as something a bit different from just "squats".
Two handed regular pushups can get too easy to be worth it after a while, so we can progress to feet elevated pushups, which I've found to be more challenging than one arm feet down pushups in a way (which might take some explanation which I won't put into this message), and archer pushups. The one arm pushup I think is not a replacement for this stuff but another move with mostly different goals (like tension, balance etc).
Then, for the lower body we'll need squats of some kind. Archer squats are probably as far as most people need to get, but you can progress to hover squats and even pistols if you're dedicated. Again, I've come to think of pistols as something a bit different from just "squats".
Kozushi
Level 7 Valued Member
In my case it was the one arm hang, which was as much as I could do, which tore my shoulder. My left shoulder could handle it but not my right. It's been a few months and I can tell that I'll fully recover, but it will likely still take a few more.
Baron von Raschke
Level 3 Valued Member
If I'm not mistaken even Al Kavadlo, and we all know how strong he is in terms of bodyweight exercises, struggles with a single one arm pullup. I have his Raising the Bar (though it's not in front of me right now) and I'm pretty sure he mentions he's "only" able to do one on good days. And it's not just the vertical pulling power that's intimidating, but the twisting your body wants to do throughout the movement. I don't think Al is a big guy either.
305pelusa
Level 6 Valued Member
It's near impossible and very dangerous, but certainly not pointless. Every rock climber worth their salt has to work up to one as a minimum. Most go on for multiple reps, added weight, or less fingers used. The grip, explosiveness and raw strength truly makes it the epitome of strength calisthenics.
I know you're extremely frustrated. Unfortunately, unlike the Pistol or OAPU, the OAP is not fool-proof. Injury is constantly around the corner. If you don't know the correct progressions and don't leave your ego at the door, you'll get injured.
If I can ask, how many Pull-ups could you do in a row before starting your journey towards the OAP? And how many weeks of training did you do before you started doing those Hangs? Also how much do you weigh?
I'm sure they're very difficult for him. That said, he does them so effortlessly and makes them look so smooth.
I believe he's 75 kilos. Around that. At that weight, it's a tough feat.
offwidth
Level 10 Valued Member
Even among rock climbers, including really good ones 'worth their salt' the one arm pull-up is as elusive as hens teeth. For the most part there just aren't moves that really replicate it all that often. Footwork, body positioning, reading sequences, and fear management, are far more important than pull up strength in most cases. (Single or double) A person can climb at a really high standard, without needing a single arm pull-up in their repertoire.
If a rock climber wants to up their game in the strength department; its finger strength they really go after. But do we do pull-ups?... oh yeah we do.
Rock climbing 44 years and counting...
Kozushi
Level 7 Valued Member
I had been doing chinups or pullups daily for months before trying the one arm hangs. I stupidly did them right after an intense judo battle session. I hung on for quite a while with my left arm, maybe 30 seconds. I did the same with my right, but I tore stuff in my shoulder for sure. It's a long wait for it to heal up. I've still been training hard at judo and BJJ and kendo, but I'm going to need my S&S strength back if I want to really be competitive. I restarted the goblet squats and swings yesterday, and this portion of S&S alone has made me feel a lot more comfortable and mobile. I replaced the getups, which I can't do right now because of my torn shoulder, with some pushups, legs raised pushups, and archer pushups, according to Al Kavadlo's methods.
And you're right, there are uses for them, like for mountain climbers and rescuers. You are right and I was wrong about that.
For regular human beings, probably no point to them though.
offwidth
Level 10 Valued Member
99% of climbers can't do one arm pull-ups, nor do they need to...
305pelusa
Level 6 Valued Member
The issue is a lack of preparation. It wasn't until I built up to 20 consecutive Pull-ups that I began One-arm Pull work.
And by "work", I mean gentle progressions. Typewriter Pull-ups, archer Pull-ups, etc. It wasn't until 6 months of dedicated one-arm assisted work that I even attempted a One-arm Hang. And it wasn't until 9 months that I tried my first negative.
Going from Pull-ups straight to a One-arm hang is literally doubling intensity. Think about that for a second. That's like someone who regularly squats 300 lbs, suddenly loaded 600 lbs and tried to hold the top standing. That might not go very well!
I agree with you to an extent. It's about your goals. Those who work up to them don't necessarily have "health" as a goal. They just want to be stronger and learn a cool new move. That's all.
But can you honestly say that it wouldn't be a useful thing for them to have?
Not literally the action of one-arm pulling (you never should do that). But the extra strength in the muscles, ligaments, tendons that you build, you don't think that's useful? Rock climbers never have a use for Muscle-ups, yet I've never gone to a bouldering gym that doesn't have a set of Rings to train it. I think it's a similar vein of thought.
Hell, even peg board training is used frequently for Rock Climber preparation. It's virtually impossible to do a peg board unless you can hold a bent-arm One-arm pull-up. I remember when it dawned on me that none of my friends could do a peg board, and it was a breeze for me for that very reason. If peg boards are used for preparation, then it's clear some level of competency in one-arm work is useful. Maybe not the full OAP, but maybe some preliminary progressions, at the very least no?
So no, most rock climbers don't build up to one (it's too hard for that!). No, it isn't vital because I understand how leg and technique is truly the important factor. But I would make the argument that while for a regular human being, the OAP (and Muscle-up) is not needed, it definitely has a place in the Rock Climbing community. As far as I can tell in my limited experience (and I admit, very limited... it's just mostly observations and reading).
Please let me know how you might (dis)agree as I would love to learn more about rock climbing in general too
offwidth
Level 10 Valued Member
@305pelusa be careful what you ask for... I could go on about climbing forever... Steve would probably kick me out for monopolizing the form for climbing topics.
One gym I trained at had a saying... "technique is for the weak" It was meant to be a bit tongue in cheek, but there were some pretty strong people there. I actually agree 100% what you said about the extra strength in tendons & ligaments, etc that are developed in a one arm pull up being useful for climbers. It's just that for the vast majority of climbs both indoor and out that for that level of 'strength' the juice just isn't worth the squeeze.
If a person can do 15 honest to god pull-ups they are probably strong enough to climb at the 5.13 grade. Climbing at that grade will get you up probably 95% of all climbs in the world.
If you are knocking on the 5.14 door (or higher) then maybe I could see more applicability. But at these ethereal grades there are so many other factors that come into play.
Finger strength. Sonnie Trotter told me it's all finger strength. I believe him. He can lead trad 5.14; that's impressive.
Training time is precious, and it should be used wisely.
The good thing is that climbing gyms now often do include rings and a wide variety of other training implements, (as you pointed out) and the community has come around to recognizing that training for climbing by just climbing is not as effective as doing ancillary work.
A bit of history... the father of modern bouldering in North America had a gymnastics background and introduced those skills (and chalk) to bouldering. Now he could do one arm (and one finger) pull-ups! And one arm front levers.
I am starting to ramble... my apologies...
Anytime you, or anyone else wants to discuss climbing related training I'm in....
Have a good day...
Steve would probably kick me out for monopolizing the form for climbing topics. One gym I trained at had a saying... "technique is for the weak" It was meant to be a bit tongue in cheek, but there were some pretty strong people there. I actually agree 100% what you said about the extra strength in tendons & ligaments, etc that are developed in a one arm pull up being useful for climbers. It's just that for the vast majority of climbs both indoor and out that for that level of 'strength' the juice just isn't worth the squeeze.
If a person can do 15 honest to god pull-ups they are probably strong enough to climb at the 5.13 grade. Climbing at that grade will get you up probably 95% of all climbs in the world.
If you are knocking on the 5.14 door (or higher) then maybe I could see more applicability. But at these ethereal grades there are so many other factors that come into play.
Finger strength. Sonnie Trotter told me it's all finger strength. I believe him. He can lead trad 5.14; that's impressive.
Training time is precious, and it should be used wisely.
The good thing is that climbing gyms now often do include rings and a wide variety of other training implements, (as you pointed out) and the community has come around to recognizing that training for climbing by just climbing is not as effective as doing ancillary work.
A bit of history... the father of modern bouldering in North America had a gymnastics background and introduced those skills (and chalk) to bouldering. Now he could do one arm (and one finger) pull-ups! And one arm front levers.
I am starting to ramble... my apologies...
Anytime you, or anyone else wants to discuss climbing related training I'm in....
Have a good day...
Baron von Raschke
Level 3 Valued Member
Fascinating stuff. My 13 year old daughter loves the indoor rock climbing walls and has for several years. As a kid I was always climbing something but somewhere along the way I started to gain a more healthy respect for heights. I went to an indoor facility with her a couple of times and was surprised how spooked I was at the top of the 25 foot-ish wall, even with a harness and auto belay.@305pelusa be careful what you ask for... I could go on about climbing forever...
One gym I trained at had a saying... "technique is for the weak" It was meant to be a bit tongue in cheek, but there were some pretty strong people there. I actually agree 100% what you said about the extra strength in tendons & ligaments, etc that are developed in a one arm pull up being useful for climbers. It's just that for the vast majority of climbs both indoor and out that for that level of 'strength' the juice just isn't worth the squeeze.
If a person can do 15 honest to god pull-ups they are probably strong enough to climb at the 5.13 grade. Climbing at that grade will get you up probably 95% of all climbs in the world.
If you are knocking on the 5.14 door (or higher) then maybe I could see more applicability. But at these ethereal grades there are so many other factors that come into play.
Finger strength. Sonnie Trotter told me it's all finger strength. I believe him. He can lead trad 5.14; that's impressive.
Training time is precious, and it should be used wisely.
The good thing is that climbing gyms now often do include rings and a wide variety of other training implements, (as you pointed out) and the community has come around to recognizing that training for climbing by just climbing is not as effective as doing ancillary work.
A bit of history... the father of modern bouldering in North America had a gymnastics background and introduced those skills (and chalk) to bouldering. Now he could do one arm (and one finger) pull-ups! And one arm front levers.
I am starting to ramble... my apologies...
Anytime you, or anyone else wants to discuss climbing related training I'm in....
Have a good day...
But back to pullups. I'm capable of doing about ten pullups on a good day, so I felt ready to wall climb with her. But after about six successful climbs, my grip started to go. By the time I finished eight climbs, it was gone and never came back, so my day was finished. My climbing technique was and is horrible and looking back I think I overemphasized the pulling aspect and forgot to include my legs for more pushing. Live and learn. It sounds like you're saying that maybe pinch-grip pullups would be better training for rock climbing than one-arm pullups? Like @305pelusa I always assumed that professional rock climbers could do one arm pullups in their sleep. It's actually encouraging that you think 15 pullups could allow you to climb 95% of the climbs in the world, at least in terms of strength if not technique. However, if I was intending to go into it the first thing I would need to improve is grip and finger strength. I couldn't believe how abruptly my hands got tired. They literally went from 100% to 10% on a single climb and I had no choice but to head back down while she scampered up.
I've only been climbing indoors, and only a few times at that, but the advice we were given was to never use our upper body to pull when we could use our lower body to push. They said that was the key to not getting tired, since our legs are much stronger than our arms.
-S-
Baron von Raschke
Level 3 Valued Member
Thanks Steve. As I was mulling it over on the ride home from the climbing wall, I arrived at that very same conclusion. I'd been doing pullups pretty regularly for months before we went and I just had it in my head that climbing was essentially a pulling exercise and I would be able to capitalize on all the pullup workouts I'd been doing. If I had to guess, it took me between 2 and 3 minutes to do each climb, and the way I was climbing that's 2 to 3 continuous minutes of time under tension for my grip. Now, I wasn't literally hanging by just my hands. My feet were braced on lower holds so my weight was pretty evenly distributed for the most part. But the whole time, you are squeezing tightly onto the hand holds. I laugh now, but fear may have been a part of it.
I'd been doing three sets of 7-8 pullups and I thought that I was adequately prepared. Too bad nobody advised me ahead of time how critical technique is and how much our legs should play a role. But for next time, I'll have learned. My daughter completed about 3 or 4 more climbs than I did, just for the record.
offwidth
Level 10 Valued Member
@Baron von Raschke
What you may have experienced was what's called 'flash pump'. It comes from over gripping and insufficient warm-up. Once you have it... it's pretty much game over.
And yes, as far as strength training for climbing goes, I would train grip and 'core' before any other strength training.
@Steve Freides
The advice given you about pushing with your legs is solid. Think about how much stronger our legs are than our arms. Even the tiniest of foot holds allows you to push from or at least take the weight off of your arms.
What you may have experienced was what's called 'flash pump'. It comes from over gripping and insufficient warm-up. Once you have it... it's pretty much game over.
And yes, as far as strength training for climbing goes, I would train grip and 'core' before any other strength training.
@Steve Freides
The advice given you about pushing with your legs is solid. Think about how much stronger our legs are than our arms. Even the tiniest of foot holds allows you to push from or at least take the weight off of your arms.
Baron von Raschke
Level 3 Valued Member
Never heard of "flash pump" before, so I looked it up:
"...tight, swollen, burning, and sometimes painful feeling that occurs in our forearms when we’re climbing as a result of lactic acid build up."
Yeah, that pretty much described my day on the indoor climbing wall to a T. This same article provided 7 tips on how to avoid it. I read through them briefly but I bookmarked the page to look at it later. That's exactly what I was experiencing. And once it started, I was unable to go further.
SimonP
Level 1 Valued Member
As far as I am concerned, it is a move that requires TREMENDOUS patience to achieve.
I would suggest to first achieve a solid foundation with active hanging in the bottom position. From there on, the top position hold should be somewhat accessible, even if it is a truly challenging move by itself.
I would suggest to first achieve a solid foundation with active hanging in the bottom position. From there on, the top position hold should be somewhat accessible, even if it is a truly challenging move by itself.
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