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Bodyweight Protocol for Mass Building

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305pelusa

305pelusa

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Want to get some ideas for how to program a movement to build muscle.

I'm looking to program Pull-ups, Rows, Dips and Wall Headstand Push-ups in particular. I can dedicate 2 days per week to this. I'm a simple man; if it can be the same workout structure for both days, even better on my head.

I've done fine with straight sets in the past (3-4 sets, 60-90 secs of rest for each, trying to add reps as weeks go by). I've also done OK with Escalating Density Templates where I set a timer for 10 min, and try to get as many Pull-ups in that time as possible (and improve that over time).

Ideally I dedicate about 7 minutes to each exercise and get it all done in 30 minutes. There should be some goal so I can keep making things harder.

I've tried Bear-like templates (5 reps, rest of 60-90 secs, for as long as you can) but that didn't work very well for me personally (not saying anything bad about the Bear itself done with DLs). Didn't achieve much of a pump and took too long anyways.

Let me know what you come up with. I'm down to try unconventional methods (using dice, deck of cards, etc). Should be a fun creative thread.
 
@305pelusa I've been in contact with an old school calisthenics guy named Mike Joplin for some years. I'm not sure about the rules here about posting links so I'll just copy and paste some of our email conversation. By the way Pavel was a favorite arthur of his. He is now in his 70's, so You know he is fighting cancer right now.

" And I usually like to workout at least six times a week, but my training sessions are brief -- less than 30 minutes. Sometimes I like to work my lower body four times a week and my upper body two times a week. The reason is because my lower body (quads and hams) always need more work. It's easy for me to make gains with my upper body compared to my lower body. Everyone is different. So always structure your training methods and sessions around "your" needs.

I call my "string of numbers" a "series." Each series of numbers is correlated to a specific exercise. For example, let's take the diamond pushup (where my hands are close together). To begin with, I would set-up my "series" of numbers as follows: 1- 2 - 3 - 4 - 5. Each number represents a single "set." And I would rest double the rep number in seconds, like this: Do 1 rep and rest 2 seconds. Do 2 reps and rest 4 seconds. Do 3 reps and rest 6 seconds. Do 4 reps and rest 8 seconds. Do 5 reps and rest 10 seconds. I would try to repeat this series three times. Once I could do all five sets three times, I would then drop the number "1" and add a "6" at the end of the series for the next session: 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6. And once I could do all of these sets three times, I would drop the number "2" and add a "7" at the end of the series. And (until I changed this exercise strategy), I would keep doing this. "

305pelusa, alot of emails with him so I couldn't find the rest of this. But he told me he would do this string of numbers 3 times for each exercise. Sometimes he would do the string of numbers like this, (1,2,3) five times. He would use the same concept as the above, drop the 1 and add a 4,so on. He said his training method was based on effort. If he felt the need to he would add negatives, partials and static holds.
 
Hello,

@305pelusa
Density training is pretty effective - at least for my body - to build both strength and strength endurance. Plus you'll get some conditioning to torch fat as well. One has only to be cautious with pace. Doing this protocol for strength only requires a "normal pace" (1111), even if we naturally tend to do the reps faster to do more at the end.

Otherwise, when I ran a "Lafay-like" protocol, I went for 5 sets of each move, with the maximum number of repetitions each time, with 20 to 25s rest between exercise. When the session became too long, I increased difficulty using another pace (5111). This drastically reduces the number of reps. It worked well with a 3 times a week template. However, lots of the followers of this method get quite good results with 2 sessions only. Low rests make HR higher so this is also quite efficient to consume fat and get good body composition.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
If you can intersperse upper/lower body you might do series/super sets. Otherwise straight sets do seem to work best for mass building. 3 sets would be fine, but a 4th starter set to approx 70% of rep/max is OK if time allows. On a size-building program, one method of gauging advancement aside from weight gain and visual increases, is to see how easy this initial warm-up set becomes over time. Since its the first one out of the gate, it is the only non-fatigued one you do and should set expectations for subsequent sets.

If working all four movements each session I'd pick (at least) one per and do a bunch of Rest/Pause every 10 seconds/three exhales on the last set - string it out till you get down to 2 (1?) reps. This assumes you're hitting minimum 8 reps to start on the last regular set.

If not I'd add some variations or cheater movements to get those 8 reps even if some are only eccentric, still finishing with a R/P technique - in effect combining DropSets (if needed) and R/P. The increasing % of rep/max on the first R/P set is also a good metric for gauging increased endurance strength.

I wouldn't be shy about taking as much rest between sets as you can spare - 90 seconds minimum.

If recovery feels good I'd consider doing that to two movements per, alternating every workout. Mentally this is going to be taxing, but on a twice weekly schedule I'd shoot for emphasizing two moves if possible. De-load every three weeks.
 
Hello,

@305pelusa
Do you plan to have other session(s) during the week ? For instance, running or specific training for something ? To manage recovery, it is possible to use a heavy / light session. The heavy one could use harder variations (using slower paces, reduced rests, more sets).

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
The exercises you mention work well in opposing superset pairs. For example:

Superset 1:
Pull ups
Handstand push ups

Superset 2:
Inverted rows
Dips

If you hit each for 2-3 hard (but not to failure) rounds/sets that would be plenty of stimulation.

An alternate approach to mix in could be using the easier moves (that work similar movement patterns) as back off sets such as:

1a) handstand push ups (1-2 hard sets)
1b) dips (back off set or 2 - higher reps)

2a) pull ups (1-2 hard sets)
2b) inverted rows (back off set or 2 - higher reps)

Just some ideas I'd run with that would fit well for twice a week training but I'm no expert.

Lots of effort applied to relatively simple (simple from a skill perspective not easy) has taken many people a long way.

What about legs?


305pelusa said:
Want to get some ideas for how to program a movement to build muscle.

I'm looking to program Pull-ups, Rows, Dips and Wall Headstand Push-ups in particular. I can dedicate 2 days per week to this. I'm a simple man; if it can be the same workout structure for both days, even better on my head.

I've done fine with straight sets in the past (3-4 sets, 60-90 secs of rest for each, trying to add reps as weeks go by). I've also done OK with Escalating Density Templates where I set a timer for 10 min, and try to get as many Pull-ups in that time as possible (and improve that over time).

Ideally I dedicate about 7 minutes to each exercise and get it all done in 30 minutes. There should be some goal so I can keep making things harder.

I've tried Bear-like templates (5 reps, rest of 60-90 secs, for as long as you can) but that didn't work very well for me personally (not saying anything bad about the Bear itself done with DLs). Didn't achieve much of a pump and took too long anyways.

Let me know what you come up with. I'm down to try unconventional methods (using dice, deck of cards, etc). Should be a fun creative thread.
Click to expand...
 
@Shawn : I love how creative that is. It doesn't look like a good fit though. It's already hard for me to add one rep in a set per session; let alone adding a rep to every set! I think I need an approach that can be progressively overloaded slower.

Still, I really like how fresh it is. That's kinda the stuff I'm looking for.

@pet' : Thanks for the suggestions but I have already tried both straight sets and EDT. I'm looking for some other innovative ideas.

I strength train on other days.

@North Coast Miller : I've thought about R/P but my fear is if you're down to 2-3 reps per set, it's not creating much metabolic stress anymore. Straight sets build a lot of metabolic waste but aren't as good for gathering volume. R/P gathers lots of volume, but no one set has that many reps so little occlusion is happening.

Also R/P training doesn't work well for Wall HeSPUs.

I'm trying to think of ways to compromise these.

@Carl : When rest periods are so short (45-90 secs) I usually dislike pairing. I've done it in the past and might revisit the idea though thanks for the reminder.

The exercise choices are generally meant to be "drop set" like. Go hard with Pullups and HeSPUs first, then work on Dips and Rows for the rest of the session once your more fatigued.

As I mentioned before, I've done straight sets (and generally do need more than 2-3 for results). Looking for something that can deliver good pumps but without so much fast fatigue as straight sets so I can sustain for a bit longer and get some volume.

If it can be slowly progressively overloaded, even better. I'm not at a point where I can just add reps every session to things like HeSPUs. Not yet anyways.
Carl said:
What about legs?
Click to expand...

As Pavel says (sort of) "Comrade, real man ride chickens. So what?"
 
@ 305pelusa,
Good thing about R/P is you can try them easily enough (with anything but HeSPU). Maybe for those you switch to Pike PUs for the last few sets.

My experience with these is that the short recovery time (<10seconds per) creates a solid pump that I otherwise have a tough time getting from a lot of bodyweight movements. My first set usually is about 1/3 rep of my last complete set and I have a tough time not dropping an additional rep with each set.

I've also used them with the Rest portion done at lockout, but then the fatigue accumulates too rapidly to get the good occlusion going.

Is difficult to combine cheater movements with everything, and frequent doses of eccentric can be tough to tolerate anyway.

Most of the other tricks I use for bodyweight will increase power somewhat but not mass, this is the only stuff that's worked for me consistently (along with lots of grub of course).

I'm hoping to see some more innovative stuff, the suggestions so far are about all the low-hanging fruit that's available.

It all seems very straightforward...
305pelusa said:
As I mentioned before, I've done straight sets (and generally do need more than 2-3 for results). Looking for something that can deliver good pumps but without so much fast fatigue as straight sets so I can sustain for a bit longer and get some volume.
Click to expand...
 
@North Coast Miller : I have tried variations of R/P. I haven't done it with 10 secs of rest and all the way to sets of 1-2. But I've done EDT work (which is a bit more rest and the sets are a bit higher in reps) as well as MyoReps (one set of ~12 reps, followed by sets of 3-4 reps with only ~20 secs of rest). I don't achieve the occlusion I get from straight sets though. R/P is just a bunch of smaller sets. Perhaps it would work if I limited the R/P to only 1-2 extra sets, then took a good rest, and went for another higher rep set.

@pet' : Yeah that link shows some pretty interesting stuff, especially the upper back drop sets he mentions by the end. That helps thanks.


Next Wednesday is the next workout so I think I'm going to keep things simple. For the hard exercises (Pull-ups, HeSPUs), I'm going to use EDT-like training where I place a premium in overall volume. Similar to R/P, but less sets and more reps (because of the HeSPU).

For the easier exercises, Dips and Rows, maybe just a few straight sets going to technical failure every set and keeping the rest ~ 60 secs. So a premium on reps-per-set to build more stress and occlusion.


That's my fall back but if anybody else can come up with other fun strategies, I'm all ears to give them a shot.
 
You might like an ebook called "Armor of war" by Tom Furman. It is only 10 bucks but a real diamond!
 
Hello,

In addition to very good @Marc 's idea
Indeed, AoW is a quite solid approach, very minimalist: high set low reps with relatively reduced rests. To a certain extent, it reminds me of the Bear Training. This is based on a push / pull / squat pattern (if I remember well). With proper nutrition, no doubt it can be a significant amount of beef !

Minimalism and Fitness Training for MIL/LE Tactical Assaulters/Operators and Civilian Tactical Shooters | DefenseReview.com (DR): An online tactical technology and military defense technology magazine with particular focus on the latest and greatest tactical firearms news (tactical gun news), tactical gear news and tactical shooting news.

Here is the AoW FAQ: http://www.tomfurman.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/AOW_FAQ-eBook.pdf

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Well, mass building is actually rather simple. Reps 8 - 12, go to failure, get ample rest, and eat plenty of food. If you're doing it with calisthenics, pick movements where you will fail out between 8-12 reps, and when you eventually go beyond that rep limit, pick a harder version. Another option is to add weight where able (i.e. weigh down pull-ups). Inversely, if you cannot do 8 - 12 pull-ups, for example, use an easier version or bands to assist you to get inside that target rep range. Use slow controlled reps to increase time under tension (TUT).

The fact that you're doing 2 days a week may be very favorable to you. You can use those two days to take yourself to complete failure and then get tons of rest before your next session. You grow during rest periods, not workouts, so hit it hard, rest fully, and repeat. The exercises you use are not as important as the methodology. You can change exercises every workout if you chose. I will, however, highly recommend you doubling the lower body work vs your upper body (if you plan to do all calisthenics). It'll be tougher to illicit the growth response from squats without an external load, so the only option is to pick harder versions for your legs or add more volume, or both.

Lastly, ensure you do FULL BODY both days. You can make it as simple as a push, pull, hinge, squat and abs. For added oomph, check out different ways to extend sets past failure (thus more time under tension) like rest-pause, mechanical drop sets (for calisthenics bodybuilders), and other fun things (articles can be found on T-Nation for more info). Some of these set extending methods can really boost the metabolism which can help to keep fat down while adding muscle (i.e. releases HgH).

So to recap:
1. Shoot for 8 - 12 rep range that will take you to failure. Use harder versions, weigh down, or assist movements to reach that range.
2. Get ample rest.
3. Train full body each session. Double lower body volume versus upper body.
4. Use set extenders (I really like rest-pause).
5. Eat plenty, adding mass won't happen without a calorie surplus.
 
I do not understand! Why anyone would like to build mass? Strength, strength endurance, all good, perfect! But mass? Why? So you can look "better"? A man does not care how he looks! Sissy does!;)
 
Nathan said:
Well, mass building is actually rather simple. Reps 8 - 12, go to failure, get ample rest, and eat plenty of food. If you're doing it with calisthenics, pick movements where you will fail out between 8-12 reps, and when you eventually go beyond that rep limit, pick a harder version. Another option is to add weight where able (i.e. weigh down pull-ups). Inversely, if you cannot do 8 - 12 pull-ups, for example, use an easier version or bands to assist you to get inside that target rep range. Use slow controlled reps to increase time under tension (TUT).

The fact that you're doing 2 days a week may be very favorable to you. You can use those two days to take yourself to complete failure and then get tons of rest before your next session. You grow during rest periods, not workouts, so hit it hard, rest fully, and repeat. The exercises you use are not as important as the methodology. You can change exercises every workout if you chose. I will, however, highly recommend you doubling the lower body work vs your upper body (if you plan to do all calisthenics). It'll be tougher to illicit the growth response from squats without an external load, so the only option is to pick harder versions for your legs or add more volume, or both.

Lastly, ensure you do FULL BODY both days. You can make it as simple as a push, pull, hinge, squat and abs. For added oomph, check out different ways to extend sets past failure (thus more time under tension) like rest-pause, mechanical drop sets (for calisthenics bodybuilders), and other fun things (articles can be found on T-Nation for more info). Some of these set extending methods can really boost the metabolism which can help to keep fat down while adding muscle (i.e. releases HgH).

So to recap:
1. Shoot for 8 - 12 rep range that will take you to failure. Use harder versions, weigh down, or assist movements to reach that range.
2. Get ample rest.
3. Train full body each session. Double lower body volume versus upper body.
4. Use set extenders (I really like rest-pause).
5. Eat plenty, adding mass won't happen without a calorie surplus.
Click to expand...

Good stuff! :D
 
malleus said:
I do not understand! Why anyone would like to build mass? Strength, strength endurance, all good, perfect! But mass? Why? So you can look "better"? A man does not care how he looks! Sissy does!;)
Click to expand...

At a certain level of intensity, added mass is a good indicator of strength endurance. You get it by training for it - you get the adaptations you train for.
 
305pelusa said:
@Shawn : I love how creative that is. It doesn't look like a good fit though. It's already hard for me to add one rep in a set per session; let alone adding a rep to every set! I think I need an approach that can be progressively overloaded slower.

Still, I really like how fresh it is. That's kinda the stuff I'm looking for.

@pet' : Thanks for the suggestions but I have already tried both straight sets and EDT. I'm looking for some other innovative ideas.

I strength train on other days.

@North Coast Miller : I've thought about R/P but my fear is if you're down to 2-3 reps per set, it's not creating much metabolic stress anymore. Straight sets build a lot of metabolic waste but aren't as good for gathering volume. R/P gathers lots of volume, but no one set has that many reps so little occlusion is happening.

Also R/P training doesn't work well for Wall HeSPUs.

I'm trying to think of ways to compromise these.

@Carl : When rest periods are so short (45-90 secs) I usually dislike pairing. I've done it in the past and might revisit the idea though thanks for the reminder.

The exercise choices are generally meant to be "drop set" like. Go hard with Pullups and HeSPUs first, then work on Dips and Rows for the rest of the session once your more fatigued.

As I mentioned before, I've done straight sets (and generally do need more than 2-3 for results). Looking for something that can deliver good pumps but without so much fast fatigue as straight sets so I can sustain for a bit longer and get some volume.



If it can be slowly progressively overloaded, even better. I'm not at a point where I can just add reps every session to things like HeSPUs. Not yet anyways.


As Pavel says (sort of) "Comrade, real man ride chickens. So what?"
Click to expand...


305pelusa, I know what You're saying. I have used this method before and liked it. I'm terrible with Pull ups, the most I ever got was 13 years ago. So what I did with Mike Joplin's method ( which he got the idea from Pavel but put his twist on it) for pullups was this: 1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3. I worked up to 5 sets of 1,2,3 over a couple of weeks. Then I started like this: 2,3,4 for 3 sets. Then worked up to 5 sets again. Also instead of counting seconds I counted breaths. If You do two exercises a day it should take You no more than 30 minutes or less.
 
@Shawn : I like that idea. I am still worried that going from 3 x 2,3,4 to 4 x 2,3,4 is too much of a jump. Obviously, one can do 3 x 2,3,4 and then just 1 x 2,3. Lots to work with here. I appreciate the idea man, I like it.

@Marc : Briefly looked over the book's FAQ. Looks like a basic 10 x 5 structure. Almost like copied right out of Brook Kubik's Dinosaur BW Training haha. Am I correct in assuming that?
EDIT: Not in assuming it's copied. I'm sure it's not. Rather, the structure of 10 x 5 haha.
I don't particularly want to spend money. Just thought it'd be a fun thread to come up with new methods :)

@Nathan : Thanks for the post. That's pretty much what I did 3 months back. Works and works well.

malleus said:
I do not understand! Why anyone would like to build mass? Strength, strength endurance, all good, perfect! But mass? Why? So you can look "better"? A man does not care how he looks! Sissy does!;)
Click to expand...

Let's forget for a moment the innumerable benefits of increased natural muscle mass. Let's forget that more muscle means much better metabolism, more testosterone production and obviously much more strength. Let's forget the increased nutrient partitioning, the insulin sensitivity. Let's forget about the enormous benefits on your hormonal system, its benefits on sleep and mental health.

Even if we forget all of that and more muscle was somehow purely aesthetics. Why exactly am I a "sissy" if that's what I want? Am I a "sissy" if I want a tattoo? Am I a "sissy" if I want to get a tan? Am I a "sissy" if I want to wear a nice shirt?

How about we don't belittle each other based on our goals and we're just respectful of one another. Is that cool with you brother?
 
Hello,

malleus said:
I do not understand! Why anyone would like to build mass? Strength, strength endurance, all good, perfect! But mass? Why? So you can look "better"? A man does not care how he looks! Sissy does!;)
Click to expand...
To a certain extent (when mass is functional), building mass helps getting stronger, more endurant, more powerful, and also greatly improve recovery. Here, I think body composition improvement is perceived as a scondary outcome, not as a goal per se.

I think recovery is also an important factor. I noticed I performed better and recovered better since I do ab breathing and cold showers everyday. The ab breathing lasts about 10 minutes and can be done whenever during the day.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
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