Kettlebell A case for toes and swinging [poll inside]

[User 4484]

Im not sure I read it in S&S nor have I seen it discussed much here, perhaps it has
How important is the foot angle when swinging? I try to point them straight forward .. not sure if this is correct? Is it a matter of preference? When I was deadlifting and squatting I did point them out more or less depending on exercise.

 

[Bauer]

This is from the S+S section on learning the hinge:

"You are about to learn to hinge through the hips. Stand with your feet slightly wider than your shoulders—wide enough to safely swing a large kettlebell between the knees. Turn your toes slightly outward, a lot less than forty-five degrees."

Tsatsouline, Pavel. Kettlebell Simple & Sinister (Kindle-Positionen364-366). Unknown. Kindle-Version.​

--

"In all of the deadlift and swing evolutions, you must track the toes with the knees. In other words, push the knees slightly out to prevent them from collapsing in."

Tsatsouline, Pavel. Kettlebell Simple & Sinister (Kindle-Positionen373-375). Unknown. Kindle-Version.​

 

[Antti]

In all kinds of lifting, the kettlebell swing included, I prefer an angle to the feet. More with squats, less with deadlifts and swings, but it's clearly there still.

 

[Brett Jones]

Here is an article on this subject:
Adjust Your Sails (and Your Stance) with the Lock and Rock

 

[s f]

I swing similar to my deadlift stance--semi-sumo w/ feet flared 30-40*

 

[Snowman]

I have a little bit of toe turnout. My left foot more than my right. No matter how my feet are pointed when I start, they always settle into the the same positions after the first few swings or snatches.

 

[Antti]

@Brett Jones do you find your feet angle to change between different exercises? As in a little bit with this, and more with that.

 

[User 4484]

@Bauer Guess I need to re-read S&S for the 7th time

@Brett Jones Thanks for sharing, will check it out!


Tried to adjust my foot angle at todays practice. Just a little outward turn made the swing feel more powerful. Awesome!

 

[Kiacek]

I do 3-5 frog jumps over my kettlebell before each set. I got the tip from Dynami by @Brett Jones and Gray Cook (I think the original advice was vertical jumps) years ago.

Nothing ever sets me up better than that simple advice.

Thanks @Brett Jones

 

[Im out]

I point my toes slightly outward, stance slightly wider than shoulder width. The angle might be 20/30 degrees, not sure.

 

[elli]

I have a little bit of toe turnout. My left foot more than my right. No matter how my feet are pointed when I start, they always settle into the the same positions after the first few swings or snatches.

Totally me!

 

[miraculish]

Very slightly outward.
One of my feet used to naturally turn about 30 degrees out while the other wanted to go straight. I thought it was a difference in how my hips were set, but when my knee started bothering me after swings, I experimented with making the turned out one match the other and it fixed the problem. I think the turnout was due to a weak gluteus medias.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

How important is the foot angle when swinging?

Muscle Involvement

There is not really any right or wrong foot angle or stance.

In fact, there are some advantages to using various foot angles and stances; there is a shift of the muscles involved.

As an example, flaring the feet out, shift more of the work load to the glutes.

Any change in how you preform Kettlebell Swings, any exercise, turn it into a different exercise.

It Like Ice Cream

Think of flaring your feet out as Chocolate Ice Cream

Think of keeping your feet positioned straight ahead as Vanilla.

Both are Ice Cream but have a different flavor.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[Anna C]

I don't think of it as a preference thing. I'm more of the opinion that if your toes are pointed straight ahead, "you're doing it wrong."

The knees should track the toes when the knees bend. That's pretty hard to do when your feet are wider than your hips and your feet are pointed straight ahead.

That said, there's a lot of different amounts of turn-out that works best. That "lock and rock" in Brett Jones' article above is a really good technique to find the stance that meets your structure.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

I don't think of it as a preference thing. I'm more of the opinion that if your toes are pointed straight ahead, "you're doing it wrong."

Toes Straight

It different, not wrong.

Changes in foot angle and foot width turn essentially turn it into a slightly different exercise. The change in position is like going from a Wide Stand Squat to a Narrow Stance, Wide Grip Bench Press To Narrow, etc.

The knees should track the toes when the knees bend. That's pretty hard to do when your feet are wider than your hips and your feet are pointed straight ahead.

Knee Tracking

Agreed, it is harder for the knees to track in line with your toe angle with a Wide Stance. However, it not impossible. It just take some focus and practice.

One of the biggest problem for individual is when they try something new, the reply, "It doesn't feel right."

My reply in working with other on something new is, "Keep doing it until it does feel right." After a few week, the movement become and feel more natural with the right coaching and investment of time.

The majority of the time, the main reason a movement does't feel good or cause issues is due to poor technique. Something that a good coach can correct.

However, the if the correction cannot be made to ensure that the movement eventually feels right or continues to cause issues; the movement need to be avoided.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[Anna C]

It different, not wrong.

Well, we can agree to disagree... and the exact pressures and angles at the hip, knee, and ankle are beyond my expertise. It's probably one of those things that doesn't matter much if you do a few swings per week. But if you're doing 500-700 swings per week and using a heavy weight, it probably matters a lot more to do it at optimum angles that don't irritate or wear on the joints.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

It's probably one of those things that doesn't matter much if you do a few swings per week. But if you're doing 500-700 swings per week and using a heavy weight,

Intensity and Volume

There is an inverse relationship between intensity and volume.

See Saw Analogy

Intensity (heavy loads) are on one end of the See Saw, volume (lower load) on the other side of the See Saw.

Thus, performing 500 to 700 heavy swings a week is contraindicated for the development of Strength and/or Power.

Secondly, I never recommended 500 to 700 Kettlebell Swings a week. 500 to 700 Kettlebell Swings a week makes little sense, no matter the load.

it probably matters a lot more to do it at optimum angles that don't irritate or wear on the joints.

"It probably..."

means that you are uncertain, you don't know if it will "Irritate or wear on the joints". You are guessing, which is never good.

I provide some inside and recommendation on this in previous post. What your anyone else decide to do with it is up to you.

With that said, I understand that in anything new, you first need to learn "The Rules" to gain knowledge and experience.

Once you do that, you then need to learn when you can "Break The Rules".

Good luck with you lifting.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[jef]

500 to 700 swings a week is what many here have done with Simple and sinister.
It does make a lot of sense to me, when I see the results they have achieved.
But I can understand that others have no interest into it. Different goals and histories.

On another subject, the inverse relation between intensity and volume is a classic way of programming, and it works well. There are nevertheless other effective ways to program that decouple intensity and volume Plan Strong™

Like they say in martial arts, when comparing which school is the best: there are many ways to the summit, but when you are there, you all have the same view.

 

[offwidth]

@jef
Very well said.

 

[Steve Freides]

@Anna C, it just depends on what one's priorities are. A lot of PL'ers squat with a wide stance and feet pointed straight. Pushing out at the knees is part of what they do. One can do that when performing a swing, too - it happens pretty fast, but it's not impossible - but it's not what you or I recommend because we like worrying about other things while we're swinging, not pushing our knees out, and we like that it puts a lot of the load on our glutes.

-S-