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Barbell To Bear or not to Bear...

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@Antti I was doing some poking around on the forums and I have a question about weight jumps and cycling. Is it true that when you start going heavier relative to your max, that you need to

A.) drop reps
B.) take bigger weight jumps every workout, and
C.) do lighter drop-off sets

Until you peak, and then begin another cycle?
 
jfallon9 said:
@Antti I was doing some poking around on the forums and I have a question about weight jumps and cycling. Is it true that when you start going heavier relative to your max, that you need to

A.) drop reps
B.) take bigger weight jumps every workout, and
C.) do lighter drop-off sets

Until you peak, and then begin another cycle?
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A) In general, yes. Some of us have a higher tolerance for high reps relative to 1RM, some lower, but in general, yes.
B) I don't think so. Of course, the weight jumps will be higher absolutely as you get stronger, but relatively they should be the same.
C) I'm not sure if lighter but typically less of them. As the total intensity goes higher, total volume goes down. Also, as you go closer to your 1RM, it is expected you do a set or two more of warm-up, so that counts into the volume as well. Some make do with less warm-up, and can do more back-off sets if necessary.

If we take a 12 week linear cycle, one could start at 72,5% 1RM and end at 100% 1RM. Relatively the weight jump can be the same no matter how advanced you are, but the absolute weight will of course be different based on the 1RM. When lifting closer to 70%, one can do fives. Around 80% it can be better to do triples. Soon it'll only be doubles.

One can of course, for example do a five rep set at 85%, but it doesn't mean it's sensible. Shorter sets are much easier to recover from, both short and long term.

One can make a lot, if not most, of the progress working in the 65%-85% range. That is where the big base is made for one to peak on. In that range, the volume and intensity can mostly vary independent of each other. Beginners do not even need peaking practice per se, but it gets more important the more advanced one gets. We have to learn how to lift heavy singles. And getting used to heavier weights, even for singles, makes it easier to train with lighter weights, so I think a certain amount of peaking practice is beneficial for non-competitors as well. But that does not mean beginners. And even when training for peaking, it should be done rarely, something like 2-4 times a year.

But the peaking programming is pretty far away from PTTP. PTTP builds the base, and it should be really high and wide before considering the need for peaking.
 
That was a very helpful explanation. But just to clarify, you do end up taking higher weight jumps towards the end? I thought that somewhere in PTTP it said weight jumps should be 5 pounds during the beginning of the cycle, and then they should increase to 10 pound or even 15 pound jumps (with lighter and lighter drop-off sets and fewer reps) as you get closer to the end of your cycle.

Also, if I pulled 315 for a triple, what do you think would be a good 1-RM to base my cycle on?
 
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jfallon9 said:
That was a very helpful explanation. But just to clarify, you do end up taking higher weight jumps towards the end? I thought that somewhere in PTTP it said weight jumps should be 5 pounds during the beginning of the cycle, and then they should increase to 10 pound or even 15 pound jumps (with lighter and lighter drop-off sets and fewer reps) as you get closer to the end of your cycle.

Also, if I pulled 315 for a triple, what do you think would be a good 1-RM to base my cycle on?
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To be clear, are we talking about PTTP in those two questions? It's starting to get fuzzy to me if the questions are about PTTP specifically or cycling and programming in general.

If you can find the part of PTTP where it says that, I'll have a look and be more educated to reply about it in the proper context.

Weren't you going to do the PTTP LP? You don't need a 1RM for that. For PTTP, I think around 230lbs shouldn't be too far off. But maybe you should follow the guidelines in the book.
 
@jfallon9 Start lighter than you think you should. If you are doing a linear progression of 5-10lbs per session you will increase in load quickly. Give yourself some room for practice.

Start at 185-225lb. I would start at 185lb. One month of 5lb jumps is 100lb. If you feel like you are not going to get your five reps deload and reevaluate. Do not grind or miss reps. It’s practice.

What Press are you using?

I have been doing PTTP if you are interested. https://www.strongfirst.com/community/threads/fat-dads-gym.8898/page-25#post-149764
 
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Antti said:
To be clear, are we talking about PTTP in those two questions? It's starting to get fuzzy to me if the questions are about PTTP specifically or cycling and programming in general.

If you can find the part of PTTP where it says that, I'll have a look and be more educated to reply about it in the proper context.

Weren't you going to do the PTTP LP? You don't need a 1RM for that. For PTTP, I think around 230lbs shouldn't be too far off. But maybe you should follow the guidelines in the book.
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Oh, my mistake. You mentioned that if someone starts off at 72.5% of their 1RM that they may end up at 100% of their 1RM at the end of a cycle. Were you referring to PTTP here? I was referring to PTTP for the last two questions. I'm going to be running the PTTP LP.

And yea, I was planning on starting at 225 and working my way up in 5 lb. jumps as mentioned in the book. That's a little less than 80% of my 5RM. Or, I can start at 185 as @Geoff Chafe mentioned and make 10 pound jumps per workout until I can only make 5 pound jumps per workout.
 
Geoff Chafe said:
@jfallon9 Start lighter than you think you should. If you are doing a linear progression of 5-10lbs per session you will increase in load quickly. Give yourself some room for practice.

Start at 185-225lb. I would start at 185lb. One month of 5lb jumps is 100lb. If you feel like you are not going to get your five reps deload and reevaluate. Do not grind or miss reps. It’s practice.

What Press are you using?

I have been doing PTTP if you are interested. https://www.strongfirst.com/community/threads/fat-dads-gym.8898/page-25#post-149764
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I'm going to be using the standard Overhead Press instead of the Side Press because I don't have clips for the weight plates to secure the barbell. Also, the weight plates are too big for the barbell. Unless I can use dumbbells. In which case, I can do Side Presses with no problem.
 
jfallon9 said:
Oh, my mistake. You mentioned that if someone starts off at 72.5% of their 1RM that they may end up at 100% of their 1RM at the end of a cycle. Were you referring to PTTP here? I was referring to PTTP for the last two questions. I'm going to be running the PTTP LP.

And yea, I was planning on starting at 225 and working my way up in 5 lb. jumps as mentioned in the book. That's a little less than 80% of my 5RM. Or, I can start at 185 as @Geoff Chafe mentioned and make 10 pound jumps per workout until I can only make 5 pound jumps per workout.
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When I wrote about peaking programs I wrote about, well, peaking programs. A base building program like the PTTP is a different thing.

I think both of your options here are valid ones. Best get into action and learn more in the process.
 
Antti said:
When I wrote about peaking programs I wrote about, well, peaking programs. A base building program like the PTTP is a different thing.

I think both of your options here are valid ones. Best get into action and learn more in the process.
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I plan on doing so. I'm going to start a training log here. I will log my first workout tomorrow (all the gyms 'round here are closed today).
 
jfallon9 said:
I'm going to start a training log here.
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Please note that we have two training log sections on our forum. I recommend the public section, where you'll find Senior SFG @Pavel Macek's very popular training log and many others. If, however, you don't wish your training log to be visible to a forum guest or web search, then you may create it in the "training logs for members only" section.

-S-
 
Steve Freides said:
Please note that we have two training log sections on our forum. I recommend the public section, where you'll find Senior SFG @Pavel Macek's very popular training log and many others. If, however, you don't wish your training log to be visible to a forum guest or web search, then you may create it in the "training logs for members only" section.

-S-
Click to expand...
Thanks, I made mine in the members-only section.
 
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