Other/Mixed KBs and Barbell Strength Plan for Mountain Fitness

[Alaska80]

I am prepping for a two week trip in the Alaska range where I will be hiking 12-15 miles per day with a 75lb pack. There will be significant vertical gain and loss. I am already in good shape, but wanted to put a plan together that would peak my aerobic fitness and maintain strength. I have two plans in mind, please critique or advise as which would be best:

Option 1:

M - Wendler 5/3/1
Tu - 30-45 min Aerobic session
W - 20 min Dbl KB Clean and Jerk - reps focused on work capacity
Th - Wendler 5/3/1
F - 60 min ruck w/ 50 lbs, will increase loads to 75lb by end
S - 60-180 min ruck
Su - rest

Option 2:

M - Wendler 5/3/1
Tu - Simple and Sinister
W - 60 min ruck
Th - Wendler 5/3/1
F - Simple and Sinister
S - 60-180 min ruck
Su - rest

Thanks for the help/input

 

[offwidth]

I don't think there is anything wrong with either option.
I like that you have some 3hr sessions planned. That will be important.
I'm not so sure how useful the Wendler stuff will be. I guess I would lean to option 2. I would replace one of the 5/3/1 sessions with a LED recovery Aerobic session. And the other 5/3/1 with another rest day.

How far out is this trip?
How much prep have you done?
What is the purpose of the trip? Climbing? Backpacking? Hunting?
Do you know what to expect? i.e. Have you done a trip like this before?
75lbs is a god awful weight. Are you self supported for the entire 2 weeks? If so I gather much of that weight is food.

I can manage to get under 40lbs for a week, and that's including some climbing gear...

One more question... where in the range?

 

[Matts]

@Alaska80 Have you done this type of trekking before? 12-15 mi/day is a long way if there's a lot of vert feet involved! What type of terrain is it? If it's rock and a lot of scree, it's much different than trails. Last time I went on a mtn trek, we usually covered about 1 mi/hr, sometimes less, in very rugged terrain.

I'm not a light freak with packs, but I'd still try to keep under 50lbs, cause it adds up along the trip. I agree with @offwidth about the weights- once you're strong enough to do a one-legged step-up, say 24-30" with your pack on, then it's all endurance from there- being able to do that a zillion times a day from odd footings and distances.

I'd probably replace one of the weight days with a really long walk with a lighter load for base aerobic fitness, and may add another day of S&S, or maybe a day of stepups, pistols or something like that, with medium weight, depending on what you can do.

 

[offwidth]

12-15 mi/day is a long way if there's a lot of vert feet involved!

No kidding! And that's on a decent trail. If you factor off trail travel like what @Matts is referencing (rock, scree, talus fields, maybe bushwhacking and stream/river crossings) then all bets are off.
Even at 3 miles per hour a 15 mile day is gonna take over 5 hours. 5 crushing hours humping a 75lb pack. No thankee...

If you are fit and prepared for that then good on ya mate...

P.S. I also concur with @Matts about doing step-ups. Mind numbing work... but effective.

 

[Alaska80]

Thanks for the replies guys.
I am sheep hunting and 75lbs is about average for me. I live in the shadow of the Alaska Range and hike it regularly. My trip is 8 weeks out and 12-15 miles per day is the high estimate, it will in reality be more like 6-10. My normal prep has always been one of Geoff Neupert's programs, which have worked, but I went to 5/3/1 just to get my absolute strength up as this trip there is a good chance I will be carrying 120-150lbs on my way out due to who is traveling with me.
I maintain year round fitness and just wanted to see if another approach would work better than the one I have traditionally used.

I have utilized step ups heavily in the past as well.

The location is near black rapids glacier in the eastern Alaska Range. Thanks again for the input.

 

[DavThew]

@Alaska80 out of interest which of Geoff Neupert's plans have you used in the past to prep for these trips?

 

[Alaska80]

@DavThew I used multiple programs from Geoff, here are a few I can remember:

KB 365 - used this to rehab from a couple herniated discs in lower back. Was able to get most of my time in the mountains that year.
Kettlebell Muscle
More Kettlebell Muscle (Wolf, Ballistic Beatdown, A&P)
Kettlebell Strong (Supplemented with Dbl KB FSQ)
OLAD
Old School Power (Month 11 & 12 of Kettlebell Burn Inner Circle)

I would cycle the workouts based on Geoff's four fold method of continuous improvement
Phase I - fix movement/mobility issues
Phase II - Strength
Phase III - Fat loss
Phase IV - Muscle Building

I would work it to where I peaked with the old school power program. That is one of the hardest programs I have ever used from Geoff (when done with heavy bells). It turns one into a machine, though its pretty easy to over train with it if you are doing anything else.

 

[DavThew]

@Alaska80 very interesting. I'm a big fan of Geoff, especially his 4 phase method (I'm currently in strength at the moment, soon to move on to fat loss).

It's interesting to see that programs which are very much built for general strength have successfully transferred over to your endurance work.

I assume you were doing your training rucks/aerobic work on your off days? (though how you managed any of this with The Wolf I will never know!)

 

[Alaska80]

@DavThew Geoff's plans have been one of the best things I have found for all around mountain, or what I call "Alaskan" fitness, as walking across the tundra is often more difficult than going vertical when above alpine and his programs prep you for both. Yes, I continue to walk/ruck and perform other more "sport specific" movements while on these plans.

 

[offwidth]

Training for the New Alpinism by Steve House and Scott Johnston is a very good resource. It is geared for Alpinists, but it provides good material for anyone who is interested in moving in the mountains.

 

[Matts]

@Alaska80 I went trekking once after some months of weightlifting, and it felt good for the first few hours...but the added muscle fatigued quickly on the trip, and the extra weight wasn't helpful. Some altitude, but not too high (around 7-9,000'), I think. I regretted it. The kettlebell programs are great for rucking, though, as you know.

I wouldn't worry too much if your extra weight is on the way home- you'll be in great shape from the trip out, and coming home is easier cause there's no temptation to turn around! haha

Have a great trip!

 

[Alaska80]

@ Offwidth I will check those books out as I have not read them.

@ Matts I concur on the added weight. I am careful how big I get. I got up to 198 once and that was way too much. I found that my best strength to weight ratio for what I like to do is 185 +/- a couple pounds. The most significant issue I have found with added muscle on long treks is not necessarily the weight it adds, but the calorie demands it places on the body. When I was at 198 I could not eat enough and in the mountains you guys know you have to limit your calories due to weight and how you have rationed a trip. I would just hit the wall so quickly.

Thanks for the input guys.

 

[offwidth]

@ Offwidth I will check those books out as I have not read them.

@ Matts I concur on the added weight. I am careful how big I get. I got up to 198 once and that was way too much. I found that my best strength to weight ratio for what I like to do is 185 +/- a couple pounds. The most significant issue I have found with added muscle on long treks is not necessarily the weight it adds, but the calorie demands it places on the body. When I was at 198 I could not eat enough and in the mountains you guys know you have to limit your calories due to weight and how you have rationed a trip. I would just hit the wall so quickly.

Thanks for the input guys.

Very true. There is a saying that you have to 'carry your own engine'
Not to mention fueling it as well...

 

[Tirofijo]

I was thinking about this thread as I suffered climbing a very steep volcano a few days ago.

I used to be an endurance junkie (Ironman, bike racing, a lone ultra), and in my much younger days I did climb to 19,000 ft (non-technical) on two occasions. I lugged a much-too-heavy back pack as well on lots of other backpacking trips. With my endurance base, I was faster than the other dilettante climbers and could hang with my indigenous guides. I probably weighed 150-155lbs and rarely lifted weights. I can remember later going through a short lifting phase and being excited to bench 135 for the first time. So that tells you how weak I was. I probably couldn't have told you what a deadlift was. I certainly had never done one. But I could get up off the couch and go run 12-15 miles without much thought.

A few years later I joined the Army. I did do the typical bodyweight exercises and had put on some muscle and strength, but I was still lean if not downright wiry. I was one of the better runners and always did really well on timed events involving carrying a pack (ruck marches - which are really ruck runs-, land nav- which is really just moving fast through the woods while carrying a pack.)

There was a pretty good correlation between the good runners and the good ruckers. Yes, once you put a 55lb pack on, the smallest guys (say 130-140lbs) - even if they were good runners - would give up some ground to the average to bigger guys that were also good runners. But I was 160lbs and able to run the 2 mile in 12 minutes. For the ruck marches, I'd leave the jack diesel 200lber that ran the 2 mile in 14 minutes in the dust. His extra mass and strength didn't help him even though we were carrying 55lb rucksacks.

There were rolling hills but I can't say how true mountains would have effected the correlations between running/rucking and big/small. I 'd guess that the more mountainous it is, the more the extra mass becomes a hindrance. As training progressed and the weight of the rucksack reached 135lbs (completely unrealistic and really just a way to make us suffer), then it did help to have some more muscle, but only to a certain extent and I still believe an endurance base is most important.

So now I'm 180lbs and have the 2xbodyweight deadlift, but I'm out of the military and I don't do the endurance work that I used to do. As I huffed and puffed up the climb Monday (I'm also older, obv) and my legs turned to jello and I was unable to keep up with a very fit active duty soldier, at no time did wish I had a bigger bench or deadlift. I did wish I had done more running (or could train in the mountains.) Five weeks of double front squats in Dry Fighting Weight may have helped but didn't make up for the lack of specific training.

That's a long way of saying I would not do 5/3/1. I'm sure you are strong enough. At this point you aren't going to put on significant and unneeded mass between now and your hunt but nor are you going to gain or lose significant amounts of strength. Instead, my concern is every 5/3/1 session you do will cut into recovery and limit the amount of endurance work you can do. I'd say it's time to get very specific and hike (preferably up hills and mountains) with a heavy pack as much as you can.

Just my humble opinion.

Good luck. Alaska sheep is the dream hunt for me. I will have to settle for an over-the-counter elk tag in the Rockies sometime in the next few years.

 

[Alaska80]

@Tirofijo: Thanks for the input. Your words are taken and I will consider them well. I do confess I have a mental block in giving up weight training completely, as it has bit me in the past and one is always worried about giving up hard fought gains. Though as you stated I most likely will not lose any strength prior to the start of my hunt, if I do so. I have done these types of hunts many times and am in more than good enough shape to do one right now, but the game changer is that my 10 yo son is accompanying me and I want to ensure I am strong enough to carry him out of the mountains if I have to. He has walked miles with me through the Alaskan wilderness since he was about 4, but never anything quite to this level. I do understand "sport specific" training though, I did a month stint in Nepal training with the Gurkhas and I was amazed at their ironman capability to go vertical like I walk on smooth pavement, all at about a 120-140lb BW, carrying a 60+ lb pack, simply amazing.

Thanks again for the wisdom.

 

[offwidth]

@Tirofijo: Thanks for the input. Your words are taken and I will consider them well. I do confess I have a mental block in giving up weight training completely, as it has bit me in the past and one is always worried about giving up hard fought gains. Though as you stated I most likely will not lose any strength prior to the start of my hunt, if I do so. I have done these types of hunts many times and am in more than good enough shape to do one right now, but the game changer is that my 10 yo son is accompanying me and I want to ensure I am strong enough to carry him out of the mountains if I have to. He has walked miles with me through the Alaskan wilderness since he was about 4, but never anything quite to this level. I do understand "sport specific" training though, I did a month stint in Nepal training with the Gurkhas and I was amazed at their ironman capability to go vertical like I walk on smooth pavement, all at about a 120-140lb BW, carrying a 60+ lb pack, simply amazing.

Thanks again for the wisdom.

And remember those Nepalese are not doing any weight training whatsoever...
But also bear in mind many people in that region have been adapted to altitude since birth.

 

[Matts]

@Alaska80 I carried some heavy packs when I took my son out, I'd take about 75% and let him carry the rest. My experience is the best thing I with non-trekkers is too keep the pace a little slower from the get go, and take frequent 5 min breaks. When experienced, you (people!) tend to get into a zoned-in pace that can be tough for someone younger and inexperienced.

I've seen the same thing with acclimatization in other places. In Corsican mtns, we saw a large group of young kids running around- elementary school ages. Talking to them, they lived in a village a couple thousand feet down, and every Wed afternoon the whole village took off work, came up the peak, and had a picnic lunch before going home. Those kids were like mountain goats! So were their parents...

Good you're concerned about your son, but the apple doesn't fall far from the tree and I'm sure he'll do great and you'll both have some great memories!