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Other/Mixed Deadlift for Rucking Progression

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
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SteveR

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First post to forum but have noticed a lot of practical knowledge here.

I am currently doing a weekly ruck 3-4 miles with 25lbs and would love to be able to do multiple 6-8 mile day overnight hikes in 8-9 months with 40-45 lbs. All the terrain in varying degrees of GA Appalachian foothills.

During the week I am currently training
-Bulgarian split squats 35lbs and OH Carries 25lbs x 2/wk
-100-120 reps of 2H Swings /wk x 55lbs A+A style

I am moving towards Al Ciampa's Deployment Prep article basic recommendations and I am making good progress overall. At 67 years old, however, I have definitely learned that slow progression is faster than injury.

I am certain that I will reach the goal at some point but my question is would adding a weekly dead lift progression give me significant boost for rucking capacity and or injury prevention?

Al suggested DL as an add on if time allowed and I want the most bang for the buck but I wondering if I should just focus on getting the 2H swing heavier at this point.

Thanks in advance for reading and any thoughts!
 
Welcome...

Not directly related to your training question but...

If you are planning longer or perhaps overnight hikes, do yourself a favour. Figure out how to lighten your load. There is no reason to need to carry 40lbs on an overnight trip ever. Light is right.
30lbs or less. I would personally shoot for around 20.
 
Welcome...

Not directly related to your training question but...

If you are planning longer or perhaps overnight hikes, do yourself a favour. Figure out how to lighten your load. There is no reason to need to carry 40lbs on an overnight trip ever. Light is right.
30lbs or less. I would personally shoot for around 20.
That's a great weight challenge! Light will definitively be my good friend. Figuring out the minimum gear and provisions required will be another fun component of the strategy. Especially on a Wal-Mart budget to make it particularly sporting.

Hopefully I can train heavier than I'll need to carry so I'll have more energy to enjoy the scenery.
 
Yes budget is definitely a factor. I've basically spent my kids inheritance on ultra light stuff.

But it's also a challenge to see just what you really do need to pack with you for a couple days in the mountains. You might be surprised at how little you can get away with (safely!)

I can do an overnight climb at 25 lbs depending upon the route. That's including rope, gear, helmet, ice axe, etc. (mind you some of that is shared)
 
You are right, that article is a great resource. I am definitely towards the less advanced end.

He does show both the dead lift and heavy swing as best of the best hinge movements for ruck training. So either or both should be effective add-ons to the weekly rucks.
 
Yes budget is definitely a factor. I've basically spent my kids inheritance on ultra light stuff.

But it's also a challenge to see just what you really do need to pack with you for a couple days in the mountains. You might be surprised at how little you can get away with (safely!)

I can do an overnight climb at 25 lbs depending upon the route. That's including rope, gear, helmet, ice axe, etc. (mind you some of that is shared)
Wow, that's efficient. My first thought was I'd need a sherpa to carry all my safety equipment when I saw the word ice. Of course that might defeat the purpose of the safety gear!

Apparently trail selection can also be a weight factor as I am learning water source availability can vary widely depending on where you are and also what recent rainfall has been.

That's probably me over thinking at this stage, though, which hopefully more rucking and strength work will offset, if not cure.
 
Wow, that's efficient. My first thought was I'd need a sherpa to carry all my safety equipment when I saw the word ice. Of course that might defeat the purpose of the safety gear!

Apparently trail selection can also be a weight factor as I am learning water source availability can vary widely depending on where you are and also what recent rainfall has been.

That's probably me over thinking at this stage, though, which hopefully more rucking and strength work will offset, if not cure.

Off topic again but...
Water is important. And a big factor in weight to consider, especially if you need to carry your supply. (Almost all natural water sources in the lower 48 should not be relied upon to drink without some form of treatment; of which there are many options to select from)
 
If you are planning longer or perhaps overnight hikes, do yourself a favour. Figure out how to lighten your load. There is no reason to need to carry 40lbs on an overnight trip ever. Light is right.
30lbs or less. I would personally shoot for around 20.

I was going to chime in with my experience, but I think I'm just going to take notes instead. My base weight is like 30lbs.
 
Off topic again but...
Water is important. And a big factor in weight to consider, especially if you need to carry your supply. (Almost all natural water sources in the lower 48 should not be relied upon to drink without some form of treatment; of which there are many options to select from)
It's not off topic to me if it helps the end goal math: Rucking capacity >= load requirement. Any knowledge that clarifies or improves either side of the equation is relevant and much appreciated.
 
Hello,

@SteveR
I have always trained endurance with various protocols (LSD, AA).

However, as far as running / rucking is concerned, I perfom better since I train max leg strength with pistols.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
First post to forum but have noticed a lot of practical knowledge here.

I am currently doing a weekly ruck 3-4 miles with 25lbs and would love to be able to do multiple 6-8 mile day overnight hikes in 8-9 months with 40-45 lbs. All the terrain in varying degrees of GA Appalachian foothills.

During the week I am currently training
-Bulgarian split squats 35lbs and OH Carries 25lbs x 2/wk
-100-120 reps of 2H Swings /wk x 55lbs A+A style

I am moving towards Al Ciampa's Deployment Prep article basic recommendations and I am making good progress overall. At 67 years old, however, I have definitely learned that slow progression is faster than injury.

I am certain that I will reach the goal at some point but my question is would adding a weekly dead lift progression give me significant boost for rucking capacity and or injury prevention?

Al suggested DL as an add on if time allowed and I want the most bang for the buck but I wondering if I should just focus on getting the 2H swing heavier at this point.

Thanks in advance for reading and any thoughts!
You’re deferring to a training program written for 20-30yo soldiers with some experience.

I’m not exactly clear on what you’re training for... a multiple day hike, or multiple/separate overnight hikes. I presume that these are recreational? Are you trying to keep up with a group?

You do “only” 100-120 reps of swings per week? Is this all the time you have? Biggest bang for your buck is to punch the load and volume higher.

How is your aerobic capacity? This is the most important thing here.

It’s not that you shouldn’t take you’re training seriously, but you seem to be making more of this than it need be. You are currently walking 4 miles under load. You’re not that far off.
 
You’re deferring to a training program written for 20-30yo soldiers with some experience.
I like to think that I don’t have any illusions about remotely keeping up with the demands in training and job of your military target audience. However, my phys therapist would probably say your caution is often worth repeating.

I’m not exactly clear on what you’re training for... a multiple day hike, or multiple/separate overnight hikes. I presume that these are recreational? Are you trying to keep up with a group?
Multiple 6-8 mile days, sleeping on the trail and carrying all the amenities. And keeping up with my 9 year younger brother who is quite experienced. Also, building a foundation to possibly bump it up to 10-12 mile days in 1-2 more years i.e. AT section hiking.

You do “only” 100-120 reps of swings per week? Is this all the time you have? Biggest bang for your buck is to punch the load and volume higher.
Yes per week. I am waving 40-60 reps for the swings 3-4 days a week on my recovery days. The current plan is to build up to 70 lbs at 175 lbs BW over 3 months then raising reps.

How is your aerobic capacity? This is the most important thing here.
Getting noticeably better over the last few weeks. My breathing is less labored on the thigh burner hills and I recover faster after cresting. Also my resting HR appears to be stabilizing at my normal 50 bpm the morning after a ruck.

It’s not that you shouldn’t take you’re training seriously, but you seem to be making more of this than it need be. You are currently walking 4 miles under load. You’re not that far off.
You’re spot on about the overthinking. It just recently occurred to me that, with the progress I’ve made this year, if I just keep wisely Increasing my existing training variables for the next 8-9 months, particularly rucking and swings, I should be a machine! At least in my mind.

Thanks, Al for your insights!
 
I like to think that I don’t have any illusions about remotely keeping up with the demands in training and job of your military target audience. However, my phys therapist would probably say your caution is often worth repeating.


Multiple 6-8 mile days, sleeping on the trail and carrying all the amenities. And keeping up with my 9 year younger brother who is quite experienced. Also, building a foundation to possibly bump it up to 10-12 mile days in 1-2 more years i.e. AT section hiking.


Yes per week. I am waving 40-60 reps for the swings 3-4 days a week on my recovery days. The current plan is to build up to 70 lbs at 175 lbs BW over 3 months then raising reps.


Getting noticeably better over the last few weeks. My breathing is less labored on the thigh burner hills and I recover faster after cresting. Also my resting HR appears to be stabilizing at my normal 50 bpm the morning after a ruck.


You’re spot on about the overthinking. It just recently occurred to me that, with the progress I’ve made this year, if I just keep wisely Increasing my existing training variables for the next 8-9 months, particularly rucking and swings, I should be a machine! At least in my mind.

Thanks, Al for your insights!
Exactly. Just do the work, and as time passes, you will adapt. As time is passing, however, don’t keep thinking about shiny rocks which might speed up the process... there exists no such thing.
 
@SteveR, IMHO, if you can fit it into your training, my opinion is that there just isn't anything like the barbell deadlift to make everything else in your training life feel easier.

I'm about your age - turning 65 soon.

Currently doing mostly swings and presses, I still try to deadlift at least once a week, anywhere between 65 and 85% of 1RM for anywhere between singles and 5's, and using the guideline I first learned about in Easy Strength, 6 to 10 total lifts (e.g., 2 triples, 2 fives, 8 singles, etc.).

I'm doing a Rite of Passage press program, so I place my deadlift day between my two easiest pressing days. I stick to simple math, changing the weight in 10 kg increments, and using a 1RM from a meet three years ago.

Yesterday, for example, I did a 1-2-3 ladder with 74%, then a single with 80%, then another single with 86%. For anyone counting along, that's 120 kg (265 lb), 130 (285 lb), and 140 kg (305 lb), based on a 162.5 kg (355 lb) 1RM in the 66 kg (145 lb) weight class. No other lifting yesterday - it was a "variety" day for me. 8 total lifts, average was 76% of 1RM. Everything raw, no belt, no shoes, no straps, no problem. :) The rest of my day was my usual "ruck" of taking an empty backpack to the grocery store and walking home with some groceries in the back and rest in bags I carried. About a mile each way, and sometimes I bump that up via a longer route.

I subscribe to a theory about all this - when you can pick up 300 lbs off the ground, carrying an extra 30 lbs is something you hardly notice.

Even when it's not in my program, I continue to deadlift because contrary to what some people say about it taking more from you than it gives back, a deadlift session like yesterday's is, for me, the exact opposite - it makes my body whole, it raises my spirits, and when it's over, I feel like the proverbial million dollars - and today, the next day, I still feel fantastic.

Ode to a Deadlift. :)

Here's the single @ 140 kg:



-S-
 
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