“I am appalled... (Q&D - fasted training)

Discussion in 'Diet and Nutrition' started by North, Aug 3, 2019.

  1. ali

    ali Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    Same. Well, to qualify better, my sport is sprinting. Whilst you can fast certainly doing anything you want there is absolutely a drop in performance. Exactly the same with sleep. If I have a bad night's kip and a sprint session is planned, I don't bother. I'll do swings or snatches, lower cns and lower demands generally or don't train at all.
    I have done fasted training, from S&S, distance runs, lactate threshold, HIIT and everything in between.
    Now I only do low intensity fasted, a morning dog walk sort of thing. I don't bother eating sometimes on non training days, depending on how I feel and more often than not I just forget to eat. If that happens and I sprint, my performance is way off. Fasting affects speed.
    Whether or not this is true for everyone, I don't know.
    So I'll eat before, not pizza and doughnuts, some fruit and an omelette, whatever.
    The upshot is I don't eat for hours after, not hungry.
    There is a rate of muscle glycogen depletion. And a drop in muscle glycogen triggers fatigue signals and I never train fatigued.
    So 4 x 30s are doable fasted, 6 x 100 capacity sprints are distinctly different.
    There are health benefits to fasting but I'm not convinced training needs to be done fasted to get more health benefits nor performance benefits either.
    Thing is too, circadian rhythms. I don't do mornings.
     
  2. ali

    ali Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    Hehe....I know, fasted can mean a couple hours after eating, having nothing but a protein shake, nothing but a coffee, or fasted after 8 hours kip or after 16 hours of zero calorie or done longer over a period, as in Ramadan.

    I've phaffed about between doing all sorts to arrive with a shoulder shrugged dunno.
    I'll go out for a dog walk in a morning, 90 minutes or so, get home and usually have some food, if training later. If not I may or may not have anything until mid afternoon.

    Fasted training.... A few nibbles, coffee, protein.....how is that fasting?
    Is it to train in low blood sugar but surely protein and coffee would negate that. So are there other reasons.....if protein is for glucogenic aminos why not have a banana and coffee dumps a load of glucose from liver glycogen....so glucose is circulating albeit not from dietary intake.
    Thus is fasted training for calorie restriction, autophagy or something else.
    All very confuzzingling.
    Hence my thing, low intensity no food fasting only. Here and there.
     
  3. Sean M

    Sean M Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    @ali The rationale with IF is that the body benefits from caloric restriction (overall, as well as longer periods in a day without caloric intake), autophogy, lipolysis ("fat burning"), etc. all happen in a low-insulin environment (eating stimulates insulin, especially carbohydrates).

    I believe the discussion around IF and hard training is: ease into it if you're used to fueling up before/during workouts, and rest longer between sets at first. The body has to get used to / good at mobilizing glycogen and lipids to replenish ATP. When not getting glucose from food, the body has to get better at ramping up conversion of fat (triglycerides - three glycerol molecules bound by a fatty acid in the fat cell or blood) to energy (glycogen).

    I do hear that glycolytic-heavy sports/athletes have a harder time with IF, keto, and other low-glucose diets. Harder meaning lowered performance, temporary or semi-permanent. E.g. I believe one study found "keto-adapted" marathoners didn't outperform "carbo-load" athletes, and may have even seen a decrease in performance.
     
  4. ali

    ali Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    @Sean M.... precisely, it's that health/performance event horizon again!
    Of course, various factors contribute to distinguish between
    health intervention /endurance focus to athletic performance but there is a blurring and they often get muddled!
     
  5. william bad butt

    william bad butt More than 300 posts

    For the last 5+ years, I have been skipping breakfast and eating between noon and 8pm. An 8 hr window, this is fasting to some degree. No complaints, this has served me well. Even when I haven't always been the cleanest eater. I may continue to do this in the future... But...

    During the last 3 or 4 months, I've decided to switch things up some in preparation for an upcoming power lifting meet. I'm following some guidance from the Vertical Diet. Full disclosure, I own the book but I haven't read it yet. I have been following a meal plan that Brian Carroll put together for me, that is based on this book.

    Eating 6 or 7 small meals per day. Just really love it and I am going to stick with this going forward. I feel great. Meal prep is so easy and fast. And I am eating a ton of carbs relative to my last diet, which I love. I am also focusing on eating cleaner, cutting out the occasional junk food and alcohol that I used to enjoy. I wasn't too bad but I let loose a little bit too often on the weekends.

    I've also introduced supplements such as vitamin, fish oil, BCAA, and a daily protein shake. Also, temporarily taking creatine last 8 weeks before the power lifting meet.

    For years, Ive routinely measured my weight and waist circumference (at the navel) to calculate lean body mass and per cent body fat. During this diet change, I have been averaging 1 lb of lean body mass increase and 2 lb of fat loss PER MONTH. I am a 40 year old with 22 years of weight lifting experience, not a 20 year old who has never touched a barbell before. I am extremely happy with my results so far, and also feel great!
     
    LoriLifts, Anna C and Molson like this.
  6. Hasbro

    Hasbro Triple-Digit Post Count

    Hey William can you provide the formula you’re using to calculate lean body mass and fat using body weight and waist circumference at the navel?
     
  7. william bad butt

    william bad butt More than 300 posts

  8. TravisS

    TravisS More than 300 posts

    I have for years because its when it fits my schedule the best. Don't know about any benefits/drawbacks.
     
  9. LejonBrames

    LejonBrames Triple-Digit Post Count

    I think if/when I get back into a more intensive routine I will do some caloric loading, but with S&S an hiking, being fasted is fine without much of a performance loss.
     
  10. HUNTER1313

    HUNTER1313 More than 500 posts

    To mean it seems the 16/8 fasting protocol is more suited for fasters that want more muscle gain and those of us who fast for 20+ hours is for the more lean and mean. Apparently GSP is now following the OMAD and praises Jason Fung
     
  11. c_e_UofU

    c_e_UofU My Third Post

    I've been experimenting with fasted training the last couple of months and I don't know that it works for me. I feel like if I do fasted cardio it just takes away from my muscle. I function okay doing weight training but never seem to have enough fuel in the tank to push myself to the normal limits. It could be helping with lean muscle growth, but I'm not even sure on that.

    I finally broke away from doing that earlier today actually. Felt like I was at my best performance in a while (basketball in the AM, weights at noon) so I might be off the fasted workouts bandwagon
     

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