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Kettlebell New member - S&S Qs

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Volt

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Hi. New user here and I may be asking questions which have already been asked so apologies in advance.

I’m 37 years old and an on/off trainer who tends to quit things too quickly. I’ve been on and off weight training (both KBs and BB training) for about 10 years and still feel like a newbie due to lack of consistency in training and lack of goals achieved.

My goals are to drop some fat, build a bit of muscle and generally get stronger and fitter for life and my job which is as a police officer.

I’ve decided to do S&S and am determined to stick with it and be in it for the long haul. I want to progress and meet the standards before moving up and up to RoP and whatever else comes next. Hopefully this will be the right way to do it!

I currently have two 16kg bells which I’m pretty proficient with. I feel they are a challenge to do TGUs which I’ve not done a lot of in the past and less of a challenge doing swings (2 hand swings feel quite light). I have a few questions if you wouldn’t mind advising me...

1) To progress up to 24kg weight on S&S should I keep repeating the same routine with the 16kgs? Will I get stronger with time and patience or won’t this just stall?At what point should I get a 24kg bell and start swinging it?

2) To anyone doing S&S, do you add other exercise practice at the end if you feel like you’re not tired etc? Or should I stick to the basics and make sure I can do it again the next day?

3) From anyone with experience of S&S, after a solid few months of 5 days a week minimum an I likely to ‘see’ a difference. Do you find you look stronger?

4) I also have a doorway pull up bar which has been underused. 3 is my max. Should I follow the fighter pull up program? If so, how often? Or should I just do GTG each day, doing a couple of reps each time I pass the pull up bar?

I’d appreciate you guys input!
 
@Chavo8580 Welcome to the forum!

Ad 1) When you can finish the 10x10 swings in 5 minutes strongly - powerful, explosive, Hardstyle swings to the letter. I suggest to get it earlier, so you can "get familiar" with it - even few deadlifts/one arm deadlifts/two-arm swings are a great help. Please read the book very carefully many times, the program is pretty simple and self explanatory.

Ad 2) Stick to the basics. S&S' goal is not to get tired, but moving better, moving stronger, get in shape for other athletic endeavors, service, life.

Ad 3) Look stronger, feel stronger, and have enough power for all other activities (in my case martial arts).

Ad 4) No. Please meet the "Simple" goal first, and then think of adding or modifying anything.
 
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@Chavo8580 Welcome to the forum!

In answer to your questions:

1) Once your one-handed swings with the 16kg bell become easy, it's time to get a 24kg for two-handed swings (provided that you're using good form - feel free to submit a video on the forum for expert advice).

2) Provided I'm fresh when I start the session, I never feel tired as a result of it. I've always got evergy to perform physical tasks or additional training if I want to, but I never feel like I need to do any additional exercise: S&S, for me, is an excellent 'minimum effective dose'.

3) Speaking as a fairly lean guy, I've noticed that my midsection, back and shoulders have shown noticeable muscular growth. Everything else feels more 'solid'. It won't give you a bulky bodybuilder's physique, but you'll fill-out and firm-up in all the right places. The phrase from the book that jumps to mind is "S&S will forge a fighter's physique," which I think is right on the money.

4) When I was following the Program Minimum from Enter the Kettlebell (very similar to S&S, with swings and get-ups performed on separate days, 4 days a week) I also incorporated GTG pullups and was managing to perform sets of up to 12 reps throughout the day without tiring myself.

S&S demands a higher volume of KB work, but if you've got the energy and it doesn't wipe you out, I think GTG pull-ups are an excellent addition. Naturally, you'll have to play it by ear and make sure you don't overdo it, but as long as you stay fresh and stop before it gets too hard, you should be fine. I also find that hanging from a bar for time makes my shoulders feel great if I've been doing heavy get-ups.

I hope these answers are helpful. No doubt others from the forum will be glad to contribute their own experiences and suggestions.
 
@Chavo8580 welcome! I was at a similar level as you a few months back, also 34 yo and inconsistent strength training before starting S&S. These are my answers:

1. You should keep using the 16 and eventually progress to the 24. The book details that this should be done once you can do the swings in 5 min strongly. I am personally at the moment mixing 1 hand swings with 24, 2 hand swings with 24 and 1 hand swings with 19 Kg.

2. No need to do other exercise. You can practice recreational sports if you want, but don't have to.

3. I have been on the program for a year and I haven't noticed significant differences in appearance. Maybe they will happen when I work with the 32. I think you shouldn't expect significant changes in appearance since (as per your post) you are not very lean. Maybe you'll look stronger if you lose some fat, which you can with a good diet.

4. I wouldn't do fighter pull up program at the beginning as it might be too much. I do some pull ups a day in a grease the groove manner and it works fine.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!
 
Hey welcome to the forum !

1) When a bell feels easy/light you can start adding a set with the next bell. Your body will adapt to the heavier bell but will take its time.

Repeating the same workout over and over makes stronger but you hardly notice. Keeping a training log and often glancing back will help seeing the minor improvements that you make

2) Don't add anything. You can but its not needed. Stick to the basics. Aim for 5+ frequency.

I can feel tired during S&S but i dont think its s&s to blame. Feeling better after your practice is a sign of a succesful practice.

3) after 4 months 4-7 frequency I feel stronger, grip especially. Legs don't fatigue and midsection feels solid. Posture is solid and shoulders appear thicker.

Yeah i look stronger. But avarage joe's and jane's wont take notice of it.

4) All i recall from learning pull ups is that i started with half 1 rep per set 3 times a week and 2/ 3 years later im stuck at 11.

I have tried the fighter pull up program for some time and its nice, but i think its better to just do pull ups 3 times per week when new at it. 3 sets for 3 reps focusing on technique 3 or 4 times a week will get you there. Add a rep when you feel like you can. Just a few hours after your S&S practice.

Bodyfat has a huge impact on.pull up performance. Losing 2.5kg for me gave me 3 extra reps on pull ups.

anyway S&S isnt a good program for weight loss IMHO. But you could try to cut back on kcals just a little and see what happens.

Good luck :)
 
Thanks for the replies guys!

On paper the routine sounds simple which makes it seem easy, however, having done a session on Wednesday I was really feeling it in my shoulders and lats from the TGUs.

Today I just did another session focusing on getting the form right and I feel great. It feels like I’m not too tired but I’ve definitely put good effort in. It feels just right.

I’ll be reading the book again in great detail as suggested.

I take the points about including pull-ups only if I’m not overdoing it so I’ll be doing GTG not around workout times to begin with.

Oscar, yeah the reason I ask if you see a difference is purely for continued motivation. I’m certainly not fat but not exactly lean either. Skinny fat would be an accurate description. I think if I could add some size to my shoulders and traps it would do just as much for the way I look as if I lost a bit of fat off my midsection. Anyway, if I keep at it and keep the diet in check hopefully that will take care of itself.
 
Oscar, yeah the reason I ask if you see a difference is purely for continued motivation.

Motivation will come from moving the weights. One day you will try 1 hand swings with the 24 and feel it will tear your hand apart, and some time after you will be able to do 10 one hand swings with it. You will try the TGU with a heavy weight and wont even make it to the elbow position, and some time after you will complete the full TGU. That will give you good motivation.

I doubt that anybody at reasonable body fat that can do 100 one hand swings and 10 TGU with the 32 KB looks bad. Looks will arrive eventually
 
Oscar, yeah the reason I ask if you see a difference is purely for continued motivation. I’m certainly not fat but not exactly lean either. Skinny fat would be an accurate description. I think if I could add some size to my shoulders and traps it would do just as much for the way I look as if I lost a bit of fat off my midsection. Anyway, if I keep at it and keep the diet in check hopefully that will take care of itself.
Feeling stronger will provide a good motivation.
For me, S & S has not added a lot of muscle, but it is solid, dense muscle.
 
So you have noticed a change in yourself then? That’s good.

I’m not that bothered about muscle size but if I can drop the fat and feel like I’m made of stone that would be ideal! :D
 
You will try the TGU with a heavy weight and wont even make it to the elbow position, and some time after you will complete the full TGU.

And it is important to remember that early feeling. I remember struggling with 16kg. I thought that I would be so happy when I can get even one set with 32. Now I do 5 sets every day and rarely acknowledge how happy that old me would be. Be happy with your results, don't be satisfied.
 
Be happy with your results, don't be satisfied.
My company's motto is "Always be happy, never be satisfied!". I even made a speech about it a few years ago.
It is not really contributing to this discussion, I just found it interesting to see it almost by the word in this forum. :)
 
Cheers for the replies guys. I really appreciate it.

So I’m at the early stages of S&S having done a few programs in the past but not stayed on them long enough to know if they really worked well or not.

I’m wondering if this is the right thing for me as, although I want to get strong (doesn’t everyone), my big goal is dropping fat as it just won’t seem to shift.

Various people have said S&S won’t do much for fat loss so I’m thinking what if I work on it for months, feel stronger but don’t ‘see’ any difference. Honestly, that would put me off!

Plus I’ve just seen another thread with a program on fat loss without dieting etc - Dry Fighting Weight “Dry Fighting Weight”: Fat Loss Through Strength

Would I be better following that? Surely double KB squats and C&P will get me stronger quicker as well wouldn’t it? Or do I combine this and S&S?

Any thoughts?
 
Surely double KB squats and C&P will get me stronger quicker as well wouldn’t it?
Any thoughts?

Performing an exercise makes you stronger at that specific exercise. Keep that in mind.
If you want to lose fat, start counting calories. Ballistics are great fat burners IMO. I lost a decent amount of body fat by just doing swings AND counting calories.
 
Cheers for the replies guys. I really appreciate it.

So I’m at the early stages of S&S having done a few programs in the past but not stayed on them long enough to know if they really worked well or not.

I’m wondering if this is the right thing for me as, although I want to get strong (doesn’t everyone), my big goal is dropping fat as it just won’t seem to shift.

Various people have said S&S won’t do much for fat loss so I’m thinking what if I work on it for months, feel stronger but don’t ‘see’ any difference. Honestly, that would put me off!

Plus I’ve just seen another thread with a program on fat loss without dieting etc - Dry Fighting Weight “Dry Fighting Weight”: Fat Loss Through Strength

Would I be better following that? Surely double KB squats and C&P will get me stronger quicker as well wouldn’t it? Or do I combine this and S&S?

Any thoughts?

This sounds a lot like me, and its a slippery slope.

I have been on S&S för 12 weeks .. that is about 6 weeks more than I ever followed a program, even while powerlifting.

I see you have certain goals, I do to. S&S can be hard to get a long with first, especially if you are used to doing a whole lot of various excercises (insert random gym goer). There is a saying that, What separates the elite from the rest is that the elite are masters at the basic. I can not meet Simple standards, yet, but I will! Until I can there is no need for me to deviate from S&S as I want a solid base going in to other programs.


Mind you, that these 12 weeks have been the best in my training career!:)
 
Would I be better following that? Surely double KB squats and C&P will get me stronger quicker as well wouldn’t it? Or do I combine this and S&S?

I wouldn't combine those two programs myself. Double kettlebell squats are very taxing on the CNS (central nervous system) and S&S is designed to be easy on the CNS so you can do it almost every day. You'd probably be fine for the first few weeks but it will start to take it's toll after a while if you do both together. Geoff Nuepert's programs take into account how taxing that sort of work is and they include plenty of rest days, so mixing it with S&S would just be too much in my opinion.

If you want to combine those two programs you'd be best to see an experienced coach who can monitor your progress and design a program that will work for you.
 
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