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Other/Mixed Applying Pavels principles to climbing trying routines

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
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strongDad

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Hi All,

I'm new to Pavel's ideas and noticed that this forum seems full of great posts and a supportive environment. I'm doing S+S and want to apply these ideas to my sport specific training.

So here goes my three questions:

First, how do you use strength training ideas and GTG on timed exercised (vs. repitions). Take the hollow position hold for example, would I do GTG with some percentage of my max time? What percentage?

Second question. How do I apply Pavel strength methods to hang board training.

As a climber I've had good success doing assisted dead hangs on a hangboard--a small pullup board made of various sized climbing holds. The difficulty is adjustable by either using ever smaller hand holds or by rigging up a pulley and weights to provide assistance or just adding weight.

I used to do follow this protocol 1x/ week as follows:
Do 3 sets per grip where weights progressively increase like baseline (BL), BL+10lbs, BL+20lbs.

One set consists of holding a hold for 7 seconds, with 3 seconds timed rest for 6-7 reps for a given hold. After the set you take 3 min rest and move on to the next grip. After completing all grip positions (about 6 grips) you move on to set #2. And so on.

Usually by the end your forearms are mega pumped, it's hard to open and close the hand. If we assume that 7s is a good time for a hang, how would I modify the weights, reps and rest and order to be more effective at increasing strength.

My last question is regarding a climbing specific power training method called campus boards. For campus training imagine a ladder made of thin strips of wood. You do a fast dynamic pullup and (if you're very powerful) catch air and latch onto the rungs high above. It's like the pullup equivalent to clapping pushups but with tiny finger grips instead of a bar.

Okay, so currently I can only make it to the climbing gym (that has this set up) once every two weeks. I usually do that campus training as a quick finisher when it's time to leave. I can do maybe 5-8x reps without rest before I'm toast. Would it be better to GTG during the 2hr climbing session by doing a few reps every 20-30min.

Thank you all in advance!
strongDad
 
Hi All,
Okay, so currently I can only make it to the climbing gym (that has this set up) once every two weeks. I usually do that campus training as a quick finisher when it's time to leave. I can do maybe 5-8x reps without rest before I'm toast. Would it be better to GTG during the 2hr climbing session by doing a few reps every 20-30min.

I am no expert on training but I used to do lots of climbing. If the goal is to get good at climbing the priority should be climbing practice. You didn't mention how many days per week you get to climb, or at what grade, or how lean you are...

Also keep in mind it is really easy to overdue the campus board work especially if you are doing it on very small grips.
 
Not exactly the answer you were looking for but here is a good bit of advice from Pavel for climbers.

Andy, if you get serious about climbing, you will need to keep your legs as light as possible. Deadlifts rather than squats. The kettlebell hack squat is a good exercise with carryover to climbing and minimal muscle gain. You will need to balance out the pulling and the hollow position with something like bent presses. Obviously, weighted pullups and special work for contact strength (explosive kettlebell snatches also help a lot).

I imagine @offwidth could add something useful here.
 
@strongDad
What grade do you climb? Lead and Boulder?
I'll go out on a limb here (and probably pi$$ off some folks along the way) but I believe that unless someone is leading well into the 5.13 range they have no business even looking at a campus board.

@kenaces is correct. It is really easy to mess oneself up campus training. And to what end? He is also spot on when he says practice is important. Skill, body positioning, reading climbs, and footwork all trump strength training when it comes to climbing.

That being said... if you are going to train strength then fingers are the place to do it. What you are doing with the hangboard is good stuff. I would keep at that. I would mix in 1 heavy session a week, and a couple of days of GTG. (I will be GTGing the old hangboard today myself)

I know it's tempting to use all the training stuff at the climbing gym, but personally I would spend the time climbing. That's going to give you the best dividends.

Now if you are a 5.13 or 5.14 climber you can probably forget what I just said...
 
@offwidth thanks for reinforcing my opinion of campus boards.

After injuring my shoulder a few years ago I spent a lot of time at the bouldering wall watching how other people climb. At that time I decided to learn to "climb like a girl" - most women (at least in the bouldering community) are much more thoughtful about body positioning, bracing, and flowing comfortably between moves. Blokes on the other hand much more often "grip and rip" - rip being an important part of that equation in bouldering! I can probably do fewer pullups now than I could 5 years ago, but I can move better on the wall.

I don't often do much trad climbing (in fact I'm going for the first time in about a year this weekend to some lovely Welsh slate as part of a friend's stag do), but have been informed repeatedly that I can clearly boulder well when I do play with ropes. Climbing can build enough strength for climbing, and if you want to build more strength with climbing spending a bit of time on the bouldering wall is a good way to do that, as you usually get to play around with weird and wonderful body positions in a short time frame.

Also if you really want to make things easier get some super technical bouldering shoes.

I need to get back to climbing more regularly!
 
Exactly... climb like a girl...
I couldn't think of a better compliment if someone said that to me.

Welsh Slate... you be careful. Some of that stuff is crazy run-out. Talk about having your footwork dialed in... and having your head in the right place.

Have fun...be safe.
 
Hi All,

@DavThew thanks!

@offwidth & @kenaces
Well everything in my life has recently changed so it's hard to describe where I am at.

I've been climbing outdoors for 23 years (I started young). I have lead 5.12c/d sport, 5.11d trad, V6 outdoors, A3 grade VI bigwalls etc. Campus and hang boards got me from 12a to 12c/d.

However, last year I had my second knee surgery. First was a left leg PCL reconstruction in high school. Second was break the leg and realign mechanics to avoid a second PCL reconstruction. Then I moved to a new city and 8 mo ago my wife and I had a kid (woohoo!).

I have been cleared by the docs to climb and work out but no more martial arts. I'm climbing 5.12a/V5 indoors with one leg! My left leg is still smaller. Recently I regained the ability to ATG squat with the baby (basically to get up while cradling him). I'm doing 24k swings and 16k TGU. I've got ~19% BF at 160 lbs, 5'10". S+S is really helping me recover because it's so short and functional.

With all those changes I don't have a routine that let's me go to the climbing gym as much as is ideal. So yeah, it'd be better to hit the climbing gym more days per week. But I can't manage that right now. Buuut I am managing to do S+S in the mornings and I have a hang board that I need to mount. I figured maybe there is something from Strongfirst that I could apply to hang boards (HB) and campus boards.

So hopefully that gives enough context. I'm confident I can campus without blowing tendons. Basically, I move up dynamicaly, but decelerate to latch the next rung quite statically... so it's not so risky as finger depth jumps. I agree climbing more would help... but I do have some good skills baked in at this point and it's hard to make it to the gym whereas the HB is close by. :)

Back to my questions then...
1. How does one GTG time based exercises ?

2. How might one modify progression of weights in the HB routine ?
@offwidth : you'd just leave the HB routine as described: BL, +10#, +20#?
How do /you/ GTG hangboards?

3. Would GTG campus be better than a finisher?

Thanks everyone!
SD
 
Hi All,

@DavThew thanks!

@offwidth & @kenaces
Well everything in my life has recently changed so it's hard to describe where I am at.

I've been climbing outdoors for 23 years (I started young). I have lead 5.12c/d sport, 5.11d trad, V6 outdoors, A3 grade VI bigwalls etc. Campus and hang boards got me from 12a to 12c/d.

However, last year I had my second knee surgery. First was a left leg PCL reconstruction in high school. Second was break the leg and realign mechanics to avoid a second PCL reconstruction. Then I moved to a new city and 8 mo ago my wife and I had a kid (woohoo!).

I have been cleared by the docs to climb and work out but no more martial arts. I'm climbing 5.12a/V5 indoors with one leg! My left leg is still smaller. Recently I regained the ability to ATG squat with the baby (basically to get up while cradling him). I'm doing 24k swings and 16k TGU. I've got ~19% BF at 160 lbs, 5'10". S+S is really helping me recover because it's so short and functional.

With all those changes I don't have a routine that let's me go to the climbing gym as much as is ideal. So yeah, it'd be better to hit the climbing gym more days per week. But I can't manage that right now. Buuut I am managing to do S+S in the mornings and I have a hang board that I need to mount. I figured maybe there is something from Strongfirst that I could apply to hang boards (HB) and campus boards.

So hopefully that gives enough context. I'm confident I can campus without blowing tendons. Basically, I move up dynamicaly, but decelerate to latch the next rung quite statically... so it's not so risky as finger depth jumps. I agree climbing more would help... but I do have some good skills baked in at this point and it's hard to make it to the gym whereas the HB is close by. :)

Back to my questions then...
1. How does one GTG time based exercises ?

2. How might one modify progression of weights in the HB routine ?
@offwidth : you'd just leave the HB routine as described: BL, +10#, +20#?
How do /you/ GTG hangboards?

3. Would GTG campus be better than a finisher?

Thanks everyone!
SD

I can only give a decent answer for the first question.
The advice I have got from people for GTG time (when trying to increase strength endurance, rather than absoulte strength) essentially equates to:
1. Work out your longest time you can sustain repeatedly in a normal workout (e.g. one arm hang for 30seconds)
2. Take one third to half that time (in this example 10-15 seconds) and treat that as your working set time.
3. Do multiple sessions throughout the day as per normal GTG.
 
@strongDad
With those stats you are an accomplished climber.
I think you have a pretty good handle on how to train, and yeah, I would keep the HB as is. Sounds like you are confident in your CB capabilities as well, so have it...

I have my Hangboard mounted outside. When I GTG with it as I did yesterday, I simply go out every hour and do 2 or 3 sets of Hangs (2f, 3f, 4f, slopers (2), pinches). So that's about 8 or so times.

BTW... I've been in this game 45yrs now...
 
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