Kettlebell S&S + De Quervain

[SuperGirevik]

I’ve made the S&S protocol part of my daily life for over 100 days now and I have no plans to quit anytime soon. I feel that it’s making me stronger physically and mentally. So many times I’ve thought about quitting but in the end I stay on course.

The program has yet to fail me. So why should I fail the program?

But recently I developed some wrist pain on my left hand. I think I overdid it with the CoC grippers by overgreasing the groove. From what I can tell, it seems like a minor case of De Quervain’s syndrome. I’m able to do swings with no pain. TGUs, however, are tricky. When using my left hand for support, I do feel some pain but it’s tolerable. However, when the bell rests on my left wrist/arm, I do feel pain. The heavier the bell, the higher the pain. But it’s never to the point that I can’t get through a set, even when going heavy. Recently I’ve been doing light TGUs with a 16kg.

I’m just concerned that I might be preventing my body from healing. I’ve heard that at times it’s good to work through some pain versus keeping it immobile but I’m not sure if this is one of those times.

Has anyone delt with De Quervain’s syndrome? I’d like to get some feedback on how to approach this situation.

 

[DrFierce]

It could be something as simple as an overuse injury. Would you consider just skipping TGUs and grip exercises for a week or two? I know it is painful to contemplate after having built such a good streak and routine.

As a sidebar, I was getting some left forearm pain after starting up S&S after a several month hiatus. I found that haloing the KB around my head between TGU sets was triggering it so I stopped doing that. I also paid more attention to my grip, which I thought was straight but upon inspection was extended a bit. I also was careful to err on the side of slightly goose necking my wrist which helped. Interestingly, I also found that I was having similar twinges with typing so paid careful attention to my body positioning there. One of the interesting side benefits I have found to getting back into kettlebells is improved knowledge of my body mechanics and positioning outside of exercise.

 

[North Coast Miller]

I am not familiar with De Quervain’s syndrome, but it pretty much never a good idea to work through pain.
You can sometimes work around issues by training similar patterns and movements that avoid directly impacting a use injury.
But if you identified the cause or conditions that aggravate a problem and continue to do those things, it will normally become worse. It comes down to how confident you are of the diagnosis and what is causing it. Usually it takes a bit of trial and error to pin down nagging pains like that, especially if they come on slowly.

 

[SuperGirevik]

@North Coast Miller, thanks for the advice. I'm considering going back to doing TGUs with a shoe and focus on technique.

What makes all of this truly painful is that today my 40kg finally arrives. I've been looking forward to attempting a press and TGU with it...

 

[Bret S.]

I’ve made the S&S protocol part of my daily life for over 100 days now and I have no plans to quit anytime soon. I feel that it’s making me stronger physically and mentally. So many times I’ve thought about quitting but in the end I stay on course.

The program has yet to fail me. So why should I fail the program?

But recently I developed some wrist pain on my left hand. I think I overdid it with the CoC grippers by overgreasing the groove. From what I can tell, it seems like a minor case of De Quervain’s syndrome. I’m able to do swings with no pain. TGUs, however, are tricky. When using my left hand for support, I do feel some pain but it’s tolerable. However, when the bell rests on my left wrist/arm, I do feel pain. The heavier the bell, the higher the pain. But it’s never to the point that I can’t get through a set, even when going heavy. Recently I’ve been doing light TGUs with a 16kg.

I’m just concerned that I might be preventing my body from healing. I’ve heard that at times it’s good to work through some pain versus keeping it immobile but I’m not sure if this is one of those times.

Has anyone delt with De Quervain’s syndrome? I’d like to get some feedback on how to approach this situation.

100 is a nice round number, tendon pain and inflammation are slow to resolve even after you remove the stimulus, perhaps it's time to rethink strategy.

What is the ultimate goal? Is it to set a longevity record at any cost? I would be careful and not let this situation spin out of control, especially if continued usable strength and health are the ultimate goals.

What you've accomplished by going for so many days consecutively is admirable and shows great mental fortitude as well as physical, but in my mind if you aren't recovering well, you're not training well. Think long game and please take care of your body.

I'm sure with enough rest and prep you'll have plenty of time under the 40k, just remember as the weight goes up so do the stakes, be smart and have it all. JMO

 

[SuperGirevik]

@Bret S. - To be honest, I felt that I didn't have any issues recovering from daily S&S and I took light days when my body requested it. I guess there is always the possibility that my daily training caused this issue. Although, I recently started to use CoC grippers and did 5 reps per hand through out the day a la GTG. Which is why I'm inclined to fault over training with the grippers.

My goal was to make S&S a part of my life, which would in turn make strength training a part of my life. I'm afraid that if I change course, I will go back to old habits (ex. not sticking to a program).

tendon pain and inflammation are slow to resolve

I've heard that it could take several weeks or months, which is very disappointing.

 

[SuperGirevik]

It could be something as simple as an overuse injury. Would you consider just skipping TGUs and grip exercises for a week or two? I know it is painful to contemplate after having built such a good streak and routine.

First of all, welcome to the StrongFirst community!

Hopefully it's nothing major. When I perform the Finklestein test, I do feel pain near the base of my thumb, so I do think it's De Quervain's syndrome. As for skipping the TGUs, I'd definitely do it if I had no choice. What I've been doing recently is using the double TGU technique (which avoids the need of a support arm) and using light weight. Perhaps I could even do it with no weight or using a smelly shoe.

 

[SuperGirevik]

Something that I found pretty funny is that today I'm receiving 2 kettlebells. A 40kg competition bell, that I was looking forward to slowly introduce into my S&S training and a 8kg competition bell that I bought for my wife as a gift.

But now it appears that both my wife and I will be using the 8kg bell... hopefully she still believes me when I say that I bought it for her

 

[ali]

Yes it can take many months. I wasn't doing S&S at the time though but my everyday stuff was painful and debilitating.. ...couldn't hold a spoon in my hand kind of thing.
If it is what you think it is, back off and rest before it gets any worse. I made my worse because of a deadline finishing some renovation that I .pushed through. I finished the heavy duty stuff with power tools (which were the cause and playing flamenco guitar) but then couldn't use a screwdriver nor have a cup of tea.. Nor play guitar. My thumb does not have max flexion, gets sore in guitar playing positions and has a cyst on the joint. Doesn't affect training in anyway now nor has it ever. I was on pain killers that would knock out a hippo, couldn't sleep, near total loss of function....horrible. Rest. Preferably asap. Time is the healer, I'm afraid. Clearly your symptoms are less acute than mine - at the moment -but it could be something else too. I ignored mine for a while having no idea of what it would lead to. So be very cautious.......

 

[Oscar]

I don't have a clue what that issue is, but if you can swing you should be happy. Just keep swinging. If you can press a barbell, you can keep doing S&S doing swings and military or bench press.

 

[fractal]

I’ve made the S&S protocol part of my daily life for over 100 days now and I have no plans to quit anytime soon. I feel that it’s making me stronger physically and mentally. So many times I’ve thought about quitting but in the end I stay on course.

The program has yet to fail me. So why should I fail the program?

But recently I developed some wrist pain on my left hand. I think I overdid it with the CoC grippers by overgreasing the groove. From what I can tell, it seems like a minor case of De Quervain’s syndrome. I’m able to do swings with no pain. TGUs, however, are tricky. When using my left hand for support, I do feel some pain but it’s tolerable. However, when the bell rests on my left wrist/arm, I do feel pain. The heavier the bell, the higher the pain. But it’s never to the point that I can’t get through a set, even when going heavy. Recently I’ve been doing light TGUs with a 16kg.

I’m just concerned that I might be preventing my body from healing. I’ve heard that at times it’s good to work through some pain versus keeping it immobile but I’m not sure if this is one of those times.

Has anyone delt with De Quervain’s syndrome? I’d like to get some feedback on how to approach this situation.

If it’s what you think it is, it’ll be goblet squats almost 100% - you’ve just increased your practice with them. Look at the wrist position in finklesteins and compared to holding the horns. Especially since you use comp bells. New mothers get it from picking up babies and toddlers from the underarms.

 

[Bret S.]

My goal was to make S&S a part of my life, which would in turn make strength training a part of my life. I'm afraid that if I change course, I will go back to old habits (ex. not sticking to a program).

Your 'streak goal' is not in line with this statement, if you want to truly stick to S&S doing it 3 to 5 days/wk will still allow for recovery and other programs, ROP for instance compliments well with it.
In my opinion too much is too much, you've proven you can stick with a program to me and probably others. If you have a mental 'weakness' or doubt in your ability to stick with a program there are ways to overcome this thinking.
One good way is to tailor programming more to vanity training, at least then you'll be motivated and pleased with body composition changes. This in turn will motivate you to not lose what you've gained while turning more to strength work with a bit of vanity work thrown into the mix.

 

[SuperGirevik]

If it’s what you think it is, it’ll be goblet squats almost 100% - you’ve just increased your practice with them. Look at the wrist position in finklesteins and compared to holding the horns. Especially since you use comp bells. New mothers get it from picking up babies and toddlers from the underarms.

You just might be right! Recently I've been doing goblet squats fairly heavy to match my swings. Maybe I went up in weight too fast. Actually, I even did some bicep curls in the bottom position which probably made things worse.

@Bret S. - But the S&S protocol recommends daily training, with occasional light days when I feel that I need an off day. I'm personally not doing any other program on top of S&S. So I'm curious why you feel this is too much.

 

[fractal]

I much prefer cast iron bells so that I can cradle the horns in my palms with fingers pointing upwards. I’d suggest taking 2 days fully off then deload for the rest of that week. Stay off goblets for a couple weeks then reassess with something light

You just might be right! Recently I've been doing goblet squats fairly heavy to match my swings. Maybe I went up in weight too fast. Actually, I even did some bicep curls in the bottom position which probably made things worse.

@Bret S. - But the S&S protocol recommends daily training, with occasional light days when I feel that I need an off day. I'm personally not doing any other program on top of S&S. So I'm curious why you feel this is too much.

 

[Bret S.]

@Bret S. - But the S&S protocol recommends daily training, with occasional light days when I feel that I need an off day. I'm personally not doing any other program on top of S&S. So I'm curious why you feel this is too much.

I'm thinking more in terms of longevity, the book says you can do it 7 days/wk but practicality is another matter, I guess what I'm saying is a 'healthy' approach is a smart, dedicated yet flexible attitude and schedule worked around life as it happens in real time.

An unhealthy approach would be an obsession to keep the streak going at all cost, to the possible detriment of health, relationships and your own state of mind. I'm not saying quit, I'm just throwing out some knowledge gained by me (the hard way).

If you want to stay as a lifer on S&S eventually you'll have to be more flexible. The only reason I brought it up is the possibility the tendon inflammation could be caused by too much volume, which will eventually set you back in training if it continues to become inflamed. Pain during get-ups is a red flag, others are cautioning here as well.

 

[SuperGirevik]

I’d suggest taking 2 days fully off

Not the "F" word!!!

@Bret S. - I understand and appreciate your concern. To be honest, sticking to one program for so long made me feel proud of myself. I also enjoyed the results I was getting (fat loss + strength). But perhaps I've been too focused with strictly doing a daily routine that I've lost sight of the bigger picture... I definitely need to reassess my training. Thanks

I'm actually going on vacation in a month, so the streak was bound to end. I've been thinking of doing S&S + GS LC/Snatches 3x times a week as suggested in this article by Steve Mathews . Maybe now is a good time to take a break and prepare my body for a new form of training.

I could also do S&S + S&T 3x a week and work my way to pressing the 40kg.

 

[fractal]

I'm thinking more in terms of longevity, the book says you can do it 7 days/wk but practicality is another matter, I guess what I'm saying is a 'healthy' approach is a smart, dedicated yet flexible attitude and schedule worked around life as it happens in real time.

An unhealthy approach would be an obsession to keep the streak going at all cost, to the possible detriment of health, relationships and your own state of mind. I'm not saying quit, I'm just throwing out some knowledge gained by me (the hard way).

If you want to stay as a lifer on S&S eventually you'll have to be more flexible. The only reason I brought it up is the possibility the tendon inflammation could be caused by too much volume, which will eventually set you back in training if it continues to become inflamed. Pain during get-ups is a red flag, others are cautioning here as well.

Completely agree, I prefer to train 6+ days per week but I've had to force myself to keep it to 5 set sessions because it just works better. Willpower with training is funny - after a long layoff, getting that first session in is the hardest, when you're on a hot streak, a day off seems impossible.

I think it was Dan John who said (to roughly paraphrase) 'what do you want out of your training? results or entertainment?'
I've found the freestyle approach and GTG allows me to satisfy the entertainment aspect of training, while being flexible and being able to really focus on the planned sessions.

 

[fractal]

I could also do S&S + S&T 3x a week and work my way to pressing the 40kg.

I did S+S alternating with S+T for a while and found it to be a really good balance. It was still 6 days per week of training but when S+T was done with minimal other work (maybe some pullups or squats low volume) - I was always well recovered and it never felt monotonous

 

[SuperGirevik]

@fractal, did you try doing S&S + S&T on the same day?

Alternating days sounds pretty good too. I could do S&S + GS alternated with S&T + Pull-ups perhaps 4x a week.

 

[fractal]

@fractal, did you try doing S&S + S&T on the same day?

Alternating days sounds pretty good too. I could do S&S + GS alternated with S&T + Pull-ups perhaps 4x a week.

Nope, I was always pretty satisfied with S&S once I finished. I've always thrown in GTG and workout snacks, so I would do those a bit later in the day if I still had the itch