Other/Mixed Sled for Conditioning

[JeffC]

My gym has a Torque Fitness Tank. Exercise & Push Pull Workout Sled | Torque Fitness Tank™ Sled It uses an adjustable brake for resistance. The added weight just keeps it on the ground.

I never used a sled before, but I have been doing versions of Wendler 5/3/1 for a while. My conditioning has been walking a lot.

I am looking to step back on weight training and increase conditioning for a few months. In Beyond 5/3/1 he has a few sled protocols. I was thinking of pushing a sled or some other conditioning on days I don’t lift.

I plan to start with two days a week and increase to three days a week. One simple template I saw was 10 x 40yd. Working up to 10 x 40yd OTM may be a decent goal to start with.

Hills are not really an option, but what do you like for conditioning? Do you have any sled tips or protocols?

 

[fractal]

My gym has a Torque Fitness Tank. Exercise & Push Pull Workout Sled | Torque Fitness Tank™ Sled It uses an adjustable brake for resistance. The added weight just keeps it on the ground.

I never used a sled before, but I have been doing versions of Wendler 5/3/1 for a while. My conditioning has been walking a lot.

I am looking to step back on weight training and increase conditioning for a few months. In Beyond 5/3/1 he has a few sled protocols. I was thinking of pushing a sled or some other conditioning on days I don’t lift.

I plan to start with two days a week and increase to three days a week. One simple template I saw was 10 x 40yd. Working up to 10 x 40yd OTM may be a decent goal to start with.

Hills are not really an option, but what do you like for conditioning? Do you have any sled tips or protocols?

I’ve always wanted a sled or prowler. The OS guys seem to like pulling a sled while crawling.

 

[Snowman]

Sled training seems like a good modality for A+A training. About 8-12 seconds all out sprint (or whatever distance approximates that), recover completely (1-3 minutes), lather, rinse, repeat for as many rounds as power output remains high.

 

[ShawnM]

@Geoff Chafe - Sleds/Prowlers are awesome not just for conditioning but strength as well. They have a way of filling in gaps in leg strength. Depending on what is available to you as far as sleds you can really benefit. If you have access to a rope or suspension trainer you can also get a good deal of upper body work as well.

 

[Karl]

To be honest dragging an old tractor/skidder tire has been a great training device for my wildland fire engine crews. Dragging a heavy tire at hiking speed on flat ground for distance is as close as you can get to hiking steep terrain with weight as you can get on flat ground. It's been fantastic for my firefighters. For my purpose I find a walk speed to be far more effective than drags at a sprint. I've had the drag for distance and drag for time. Usually paired with some form of Carrie's, once a week for our pt.

Regardless a trip to the tire store and I picked up 6 used tractor tires for free. Excellent training device for the price. Not sure if I've added or detracted from the discussion here.

 

[Anna C]

@Karl Thanks to you and your crew for what you do. A difficult but so important job in this tragic year of western U.S. fires.

 

[Deleted member 5559]

I used to use a sled a lot during some injuries and recovery. They are really nice because they don't have an eccentric component and you can get away with doing it almost every day without beating yourself up. I would usually do forward and backward pulling with a harness, rows and presses with handles, or over-hand rows with a 2" rope. I would do forward down, backward back; press down, row back; then finish the grip off with the over-hand rows. I would do lower body then upper body or vice versa so I didn't have to change the weight between each. Some days would be longer/lighter, others would be shorter/heavier.

 

[Bill Been]

I think if you have HIIT in mind, 10 forties is way too much volume to start with. Properly-operated, sleds have a rather profound ability to make you refund your lunch rather suddenly. I think your ultimate goal of 10 forties on the minute will require a pretty light load or fairly indifferent pushing.

If you start with what you're likely to assume is going to be "too easy" - either with respect to volume or load - you may be surprised how unprepared you are for the rather unique demands of sled pushing. This is not a slam. Sleds really can suck your will to live right out of your body.

Here's the good news: if you actually pay careful attention to the H.I. in "High Intensity Interval Training" vs the I.T. like most people do, you really don't need to do very much of it at all to get the benefits you're looking for. People try to dose HIIT using their preexisting LISS programming and duration mindset which is just not applicable to HIIT.

Have fun. Don't Yakk.

 

[Bill Been]

For context, when I'm "in shape", I'm pushing a 230lb Prowler about 20 yards "As Many" times as possible in 15 minutes. That's it. Maybe twice a week. Maybe only once. To get there, I normally start with two useless 35lb plates on the sled and do 20sec work/100sec rest x 4 rounds. That's it for Session 1. Eight minutes and out, twice a week. I add one rep per week until I'm doing 20/100 x 8 for a whopping 16 minutes twice a week. Then I start adding weight to the sled, like 25-50lbs (this is a useless figure as the type and number of skids on your sled and what surface you push it on will dictate what's a "big" amount of load and what's not. My composite driveway and 3 metal skids mean lower friction/more weight can me added than, for example, AstroTurf). Anyhow, at some point, I get bored and start either using a HR monitor and using a target HR "floor" at which I shove again and do "as many" in XX minutes; or you can go real heavy and see how many short runs you can stand to do in XX minutes; or you can de-load it down and see how long you can push into the quad burn then see if you can improve how far you can go before you start to burn and how far after you start.....there's just a myriad of ways to program the thing to meet the specific metabolic needs you want to target. One of the things that makes them so effective.

 

[The Nail]

Sleds really can suck your will to live right out of your body.

Can confirm.

 

[Snowman]

if you actually pay careful attention to the H.I. in "High Intensity Interval Training" vs the I.T. like most people do, you really don't need to do very much of it at all to get the benefits you're looking for.

Maybe only once. To get there, I normally start with two useless 35lb plates on the sled and do 20sec work/100sec rest x 4 rounds. That's it for Session 1. Eight minutes and out, twice a week. I add one rep per week until I'm doing 20/100 x 8 for a whopping 16 minutes twice a week.

While note A+A per se, this is essentially HIRT (high intensity repeat training), of which A+A is a subset. HIRT vs. HIIT is really just semantics, but it's semantics in the same way a brown bear is different from a grizzly bear. Similar, but subtle differences that are significant. In HIRT the focus is on power production, and the rest times and total volume are adjusted to serve that purpose. Craig Marker wrote a good article about it for Breaking Muscle, and specifically mentions a sled protocol: HIIT vs HIRT

 

[Anna C]

While note A+A per se, this is essentially HIRT (high intensity repeat training), of which A+A is a subset.

I'm going to disagree with you there. Why do you say it's HIRT and not HIIT? Because of the rest interval?

I'll tell the story with my heartrate:

Here's an A+A session:


That was 5 snatches per repeat with 20kg, so just over one minute per repeat. HR stays relatively low and completely recovers between repeats.


Here’s a HIIT session:


This was a HIIT session on the Airdyne. 5 intervals of 20 seconds all out effort followed by 1 min 40 sec recovery. HR goes WAY higher and doesn't even come CLOSE to recovering between these intervals, even though it's a relatively long recovery period between the intervals -- longer than A+A rest between repeats.

Time is a factor, yes, but equally important is what you mean by "Intensity."

With A+A, it's intensely explosive and powerful.

With HIIT, it's intensely cardiorespiratorily demanding.

Different metabolic results.

Different adaptations.

 

[Snowman]

'm going to disagree with you there.

Fair enough, I would say that it could be borderline. A work:rest rate of 20:100 seconds won't allow total HR recovery between sets, but it could allow power output to remain high for some of the session (how long would depend on the condition of the athlete). I guess my use of the phrase "essentially HIRT" is a little imprecise, so your contention is warranted . Giving it a second thought, I probably wouldn't use that wording again.

For it to truly be HIRT, the rest periods would have to lengthened out enough that power output didn't drop significantly, since 100 seconds of rest between them wouldn't allow power output to be maintained. For it to be A+A, you would have to drop the work time down closer to 10 seconds, since you're definitely not alactic at 20 seconds of max power output.

My point was simply that Geoff should check out HIRT training and A+A, since it's just a few subtle but powerful tweaks away from the normal HIIT that people typically prescribe for sled/prowler work.

 

[North Coast Miller]

I'm going to disagree with you there. Why do you say it's HIRT and not HIIT? Because of the rest interval?

I'll tell the story with my heartrate:

Here's an A+A session:

View attachment 7037
That was 5 snatches per repeat with 20kg, so just over one minute per repeat. HR stays relatively low and completely recovers between repeats.


Here’s a HIIT session:
View attachment 7038

This was a HIIT session on the Airdyne. 5 intervals of 20 seconds all out effort followed by 1 min 40 sec recovery. HR goes WAY higher and doesn't even come CLOSE to recovering between these intervals, even though it's a relatively long recovery period between the intervals -- longer than A+A rest between repeats.

Time is a factor, yes, but equally important is what you mean by "Intensity."

With A+A, it's intensely explosive and powerful.

With HIIT, it's intensely cardiorespiratorily demanding.

Different metabolic results.

Different adaptations.

Doing HIIT the only thing that recovers is my breath, HR only drops about 10 BPM on the rest interval. I tend to reach a "steady state" after about 3-4 repeats where my HR reliably goes up and down about 10-12 BPM. This with a 20 second all out and 40 seconds rest.

You could use the sled a lot of ways by tweaking the load, TUT and rest periods - I want one. Seems like you could build a very comprehensive all body strength routine with nothing more than a sled.