Kettlebell After “even easier strength”

[Trever]

I am just finishing this 40 workout program. I’m 50 yrs old, 5’8” and 136lb.
I’ve been exercising a long time, but never very structured. Over the past year I have been using more kettlebells and programs.
I have used daily dose deadlift, voldka & pickles, and now “even easier strength” to get my conventional deadlift up to 275 lbs while improving my kettlebell lifts. Now I’m thinking I should try and gain a few pounds.
If I do a 3 x per week program like “Total tension kettlebell complex” to try and gain some muscle mass, should I mix in some other lifts on alternate days? I’m thinking deadlifts and pull-ups. I always practice TGU as part of my warmup for every workout. Thanks

I should add that because I have been concentrating on improving my strength, my body weight hasn’t changed over the past year.

 

[Steve A]

Not to suggest that following that particular author is what you *should* do, but note what he says:

"I have argued for years that the masters athlete has to be "hypertrophy" first. It's easy to miss that with all the other nonsense I write.

So, 40 Days. THEN, get back to 3 Sets of 8 in the basics again...or 5 x 5."

If you want to gain some pounds, make sure you do squats and upper back work. Squats and pullups for your base, if you can add some RDLs.

 

[Anna C]

50 yrs old, 5’8” and 136lb? Wow. Even @Steve Freides might advise some back squats and putting on a little weight. (just kidding, Steve )

Looks like good advice by @Steve A. Don't forget to eat for it, if you want to put on weight and are training with that in mind. A bit of caloric excess (a few hundred calories/day for a while) and plenty of protein.

 

[Trever]

Thanks for the replies Steve A and Anna C.

Yes, I’m a light guy. I’ve always had trouble gaining and keeping body weight. Part of the problem as I get older is I get more disciplined on how I eat and maintain my conditioning so that doesn’t help to gain muscle mass. That’s why I started concentrating on bringing up my overall strength so I can get as injury proof as possible as I get older.
The 2x body weight deadlift was a first goal. Eventually I’d like to get to 315lbs. My kettlebell work is getting better.
I have a lot of problems with back squats(shoulder mobility) so I’ve been concentrating on KB front squats.
I’m hoping I can follow this KB clean & press, squat complex for hypertrophy with some DL’s and pull-ups mixed in. I’m just not sure how often to mix in the DL’s and pull ups because it’s not mentioned as part of the 3x week program.

I’ll also have to find more Dan John articles on training for older people. I didn’t realize he wrote about specific training for getting older. Thanks again.

 

[Steve A]

I have a lot of problems with back squats(shoulder mobility) so I’ve been concentrating on KB front squats.
I’m hoping I can follow this KB clean & press, squat complex for hypertrophy with some DL’s and pull-ups mixed in. I’m just not sure how often to mix in the DL’s and pull ups because it’s not mentioned as part of the 3x week program.

If you can, do barbell front squats. To quote Pavel T "Other modalities can build a lot of muscle—but none as much as the trusted barbell." If gaining mass is your goal, get on an actual program geared that way. It sounds like you are trying to adapt or mix a couple programs to get what you want. Unless you have a personal history of success at making programs to get results, don't go down that path.

 

[John Spezzano]

I've done the Total Tension program myself and programmed it for my students a number of times over the years. It's a doozy. The first couple of weeks you might feel like you need more work, but I think you'll be more than satisfied once you get to the 7 and 8 rep top of the pyramid. Especially if you choose your bell size wisely. There is a lot of volume in this program and my students and I have always put on a few pounds (good, useful pounds) when doing this program. It utilizes a lower body pull, an upper body pull, a push, a squat and some conditioning - don't forget there are 100 swings at the end of each session.

My suggestion is always to try a program exactly as written the first time you try it. Don't add in extra/different lifts or you won't know exactly what adaptations the kettlebell program gave you. Pay special attention to the chosen bell size so that it offers the appropriate amount of resistance. Complete the program and see how it goes. If you feel it was lacking because you chose bells too small try it again in a few weeks or months with the next size up and re-evaluate.

If you're looking for more choices than just Total Tension, Geoff Neupert has a bunch of online books you can get with literally dozens of double bell programs that are deceptively difficult and mass building. I'm half way through "You Don't Know Squat 2.0" right now from More Kettlebell Muscle and even just with double 20k bells it gets difficult.

Stay strong, my friends!

 

[Trever]

If you can, do barbell front squats. To quote Pavel T "Other modalities can build a lot of muscle—but none as much as the trusted barbell." If gaining mass is your goal, get on an actual program geared that way. It sounds like you are trying to adapt or mix a couple programs to get what you want. Unless you have a personal history of success at making programs to get results, don't go down that path.

I’ll have to try some front barbell squats. I guess I’m trying to find a program that includes some of the things I like but there are a lot of options. Double KB clean & press with squat complexes seems to be common in a few hypertrophy programs that I’ve found by Pavel T, Dan John and Hector Gutierrez. Thanks for the advice, I’ll definitely follow the program the way it’s laid out.

 

[Trever]

I've done the Total Tension program myself and programmed it for my students a number of times over the years. It's a doozy. The first couple of weeks you might feel like you need more work, but I think you'll be more than satisfied once you get to the 7 and 8 rep top of the pyramid. Especially if you choose your bell size wisely. There is a lot of volume in this program and my students and I have always put on a few pounds (good, useful pounds) when doing this program. It utilizes a lower body pull, an upper body pull, a push, a squat and some conditioning - don't forget there are 100 swings at the end of each session.

My suggestion is always to try a program exactly as written the first time you try it. Don't add in extra/different lifts or you won't know exactly what adaptations the kettlebell program gave you. Pay special attention to the chosen bell size so that it offers the appropriate amount of resistance. Complete the program and see how it goes. If you feel it was lacking because you chose bells too small try it again in a few weeks or months with the next size up and re-evaluate.

If you're looking for more choices than just Total Tension, Geoff Neupert has a bunch of online books you can get with literally dozens of double bell programs that are deceptively difficult and mass building. I'm half way through "You Don't Know Squat 2.0" right now from More Kettlebell Muscle and even just with double 20k bells it gets difficult.

Stay strong, my friends!

Thanks John,
Can I ask what you and your students do on this program on the rest of the days of the week? Do you still include some cardio or conditioning? Or just concentrate on the 3 days of the program and rest and recover for the other days? Sounds like I could use some of the off days for flexibility practice. Thanks.

 

[miked]

I am just finishing this 40 workout program. I’m 50 yrs old, 5’8” and 136lb.

As I slowly turn into a masters athlete and away from my invincible youth, I've been experimenting with different ways to keep my lifting sustainable and engaging while also doing what's best for my body. One recent observation that I made is that I need to do lots of barbell squat volume to keep my hips happy - it has the nice side effect of stimulating a bunch of hypertrophy too! And then I use frequent low-volume very heavy deadlifts as the black swan loading event that I need to stay strong. It's a great 1-2 punch.

For example, last week, I did something like this - volume will wave so some days will be more or less than this, but this is a good representative day:

Double Clean & Jerk 3 x 24kg, 3 x 28kg, 2 x 28kg, 3 x 24kg, 3 x 24kg, 3 x 28kg, 2 x 28kg, 3 x 24kg
Squat 1 x 205, 1 x 275, 3 x 225, 3 x 225, 2 x 225, 2 x 225, 1 x 205, 1 x 275, 3 x 225, 3 x 225, 2 x 225, 2 x 225
Deadlift 3 x 365, 2 x 395, 1 x 415

The squats are significantly below my 1RM, and the deadlifts are pushing 90% - very uneven loading, but it seems to be working really well. I feel great and am staying strong.

The higher volume of squats is keeping the size, and the heavy deadlifts are giving me a huge full-body load.

Maybe play with something like that.

 

[Mark Limbaga]

I've done the Total Tension program myself and programmed it for my students a number of times over the years. It's a doozy. The first couple of weeks you might feel like you need more work, but I think you'll be more than satisfied once you get to the 7 and 8 rep top of the pyramid. Especially if you choose your bell size wisely. There is a lot of volume in this program and my students and I have always put on a few pounds (good, useful pounds) when doing this program. It utilizes a lower body pull, an upper body pull, a push, a squat and some conditioning - don't forget there are 100 swings at the end of each session.

My suggestion is always to try a program exactly as written the first time you try it. Don't add in extra/different lifts or you won't know exactly what adaptations the kettlebell program gave you. Pay special attention to the chosen bell size so that it offers the appropriate amount of resistance. Complete the program and see how it goes. If you feel it was lacking because you chose bells too small try it again in a few weeks or months with the next size up and re-evaluate.

If you're looking for more choices than just Total Tension, Geoff Neupert has a bunch of online books you can get with literally dozens of double bell programs that are deceptively difficult and mass building. I'm half way through "You Don't Know Squat 2.0" right now from More Kettlebell Muscle and even just with double 20k bells it gets difficult.

Stay strong, my friends!

YDKS2.0 is one of the most under-rated programs written by Geoff

 

[Mark Limbaga]

Barbell squats and steaks.. You're welcome

 

[Steve A]

I guess I’m trying to find a program that includes some of the things I like

Yeah, we've all done it. It all depends on your priorities. If gaining muscle mass is your priority, seek out a program that will deliver the most muscle mass, not one that has what you like and will deliver some mass. If sticking with what you like or want to do is your priority, then do that. Here is the key thing to remember - whatever you do, you will be doing for weeks or maybe months (ideally as long as you continue to make progress). That leaves you with years to do other things.

Of course gaining mass will get harder over time (doing what you like will stay feasible for a long time).

 

[deviant]

Trev, I am 150-odd lbs, in my 50-s and have always had trouble gaining weight. I would say the most important thing is eating.

When I was 20 year old (and 110 lbs) I decided to bulk up with the help of Vitamin S. I started taking maximum prescribed dose of Metandrostenolone (Dianabol). At the time I was doing gymnastics and was doing lots ob bodyweight stuff. Even with S there was no result until I started eating like crazy. Breakfast, lunch and dinner were the same size and they were large. I added about 10 lbs in about 45 months, 99% of it muscle. Mind you, after I stopped taking the drug most of my gains went away, though strength mostly stayed.

When you are twenty years old things are way more forgiving than a few decades later, and I would never eat like this now if I wanted to get bigger. If you want to avoid acquiring a large belly you have to gain slowly. The best way is to consult a bodybuilding coach. Make sure he is older than 40 himself and has coached real bodybuilders. Also make sure that you don't want to cycle between bulking and leaning out. Otherwise - there are good books on the subject. Mike Matthews' Bigger, Leaner, Stronger is a good one. Or Schoenfield's Mass Manifesto.

Exercise wise - hypertrophy seems to respond best to volume. Though lots of trainees swear by intensity. Check out DoggCrapp training for that. I think it is more useful for older guys like us - older bodies don't handle volume very well. Links to this: Forums - IntenseMuscle.com and How to Build 50 Pounds of Muscle in 12 Months | T Nation

Good luck

 

[Trever]

As I slowly turn into a masters athlete and away from my invincible youth, I've been experimenting with different ways to keep my lifting sustainable and engaging while also doing what's best for my body. One recent observation that I made is that I need to do lots of barbell squat volume to keep my hips happy - it has the nice side effect of stimulating a bunch of hypertrophy too! And then I use frequent low-volume very heavy deadlifts as the black swan loading event that I need to stay strong. It's a great 1-2 punch.

For example, last week, I did something like this - volume will wave so some days will be more or less than this, but this is a good representative day:

Double Clean & Jerk 3 x 24kg, 3 x 28kg, 2 x 28kg, 3 x 24kg, 3 x 24kg, 3 x 28kg, 2 x 28kg, 3 x 24kg
Squat 1 x 205, 1 x 275, 3 x 225, 3 x 225, 2 x 225, 2 x 225, 1 x 205, 1 x 275, 3 x 225, 3 x 225, 2 x 225, 2 x 225
Deadlift 3 x 365, 2 x 395, 1 x 415

The squats are significantly below my 1RM, and the deadlifts are pushing 90% - very uneven loading, but it seems to be working really well. I feel great and am staying strong.

The higher volume of squats is keeping the size, and the heavy deadlifts are giving me a huge full-body load.

Maybe play with something like that.

That is really interesting, thanks. How many days a week do you do this workout?

 

[Trever]

Trev, I am 150-odd lbs, in my 50-s and have always had trouble gaining weight. I would say the most important thing is eating.

When I was 20 year old (and 110 lbs) I decided to bulk up with the help of Vitamin S. I started taking maximum prescribed dose of Metandrostenolone (Dianabol). At the time I was doing gymnastics and was doing lots ob bodyweight stuff. Even with S there was no result until I started eating like crazy. Breakfast, lunch and dinner were the same size and they were large. I added about 10 lbs in about 45 months, 99% of it muscle. Mind you, after I stopped taking the drug most of my gains went away, though strength mostly stayed.

When you are twenty years old things are way more forgiving than a few decades later, and I would never eat like this now if I wanted to get bigger. If you want to avoid acquiring a large belly you have to gain slowly. The best way is to consult a bodybuilding coach. Make sure he is older than 40 himself and has coached real bodybuilders. Also make sure that you don't want to cycle between bulking and leaning out. Otherwise - there are good books on the subject. Mike Matthews' Bigger, Leaner, Stronger is a good one. Or Schoenfield's Mass Manifesto.

Exercise wise - hypertrophy seems to respond best to volume. Though lots of trainees swear by intensity. Check out DoggCrapp training for that. I think it is more useful for older guys like us - older bodies don't handle volume very well. Links to this: Forums - IntenseMuscle.com and How to Build 50 Pounds of Muscle in 12 Months | T Nation

Good luck

Thanks for the links, I’ll check it out. I’m not looking for rapid weight gain, just hoping to slowly gain some lean size and hopefully keep it. Every couple of years my weight drops by a pound or two. I always do a couple of tough mountain backpacking trips a year with some shorter stuff mixed in as well (seasonal). Ive been able to keep good conditioning but it gets harder and harder to get the pounds back. That’s one of the reasons I switched to more strength training and less interval type and sprinting. My hope was to maintain my weight better and hopefully still have decent conditioning for things like backpacking.
I’m definitely enjoying the strength training but I do notice my leg conditioning is suffering without doing sprint interval workouts, even with the KB swings I’m doing. Like I said before, there is so much great information and options that it gets a little overwhelming

 

[Trever]

For a long time now, I've tried to just stay “fit and healthy” all year long with a mix of different workouts and excersizes, but I should probably be breaking the year up into different phases with goal oriented programs. It would be a lot more interesting as well.

 

[John Spezzano]

Thanks John,
Can I ask what you and your students do on this program on the rest of the days of the week? Do you still include some cardio or conditioning? Or just concentrate on the 3 days of the program and rest and recover for the other days? Sounds like I could use some of the off days for flexibility practice. Thanks.

Hi Trever,

We focus on the program. If you want to do additional mobility work, that's a great idea. Dan John is famous for a lot of great one-liners but "You can't over-recover" is one of my favs.

Stay strong, my friends!

 

[John Spezzano]

YDKS2.0 is one of the most under-rated programs written by Geoff

It's a killer...

 

[Trever]

Hi Trever,

We focus on the program. If you want to do additional mobility work, that's a great idea. Dan John is famous for a lot of great one-liners but "You can't over-recover" is one of my favs.

Stay strong, my friends!

Lol, that is a good one. Thanks again.

 

[miked]

That is really interesting, thanks. How many days a week do you do this workout?

I'm about 9 weeks into a A/B cycle that's been pretty good. The "A" day is the strength wave, and "B" is an AGT plus Olympic weightlifting day. So on a 5-day a week program it looks like

A/B/A/B/A
B/A/B/A/B