Kettlebell KB’s - Strength & Aesthetics

[Strong Grappler]

Hi all,

I’m an ex powerlifter (250kg squat, 140kg Bench, 230kg deadlift) & fat af, around 28% body fat but I look like I lift. I’ve recently started BJJ and think KB’s are more suited to my new sport - less recovery debt than my previous PL training, workouts are shorter, and it’s cheaper to buy a few KB’s for home than it is to buy a home gym to manage my BJJ in the afternoon and still get strength work in.

However, I’m just wondering what sort of strength & aesthetics KB’s can give you? I know they won’t make me as strong as I am when I was powerlifting, but I’d still like to be stronger than the average and be able to move heavy objects easily - will KB’s still allow me to do this?

Further, obviously I can load my pulling movements on my pull-up bar at home for upper body Hypertrophy so that’s fine but what does pure KB training do for lower body hypertrophy? I hate little chicken legs and don’t want to be a walking meme of a somewhat muscular upper body (I know I won’t be as big as I am as a PL), but I want my legs to not look like DYEL.

Any insight would be appreciated!

cross posting here as someone on reddit said you guys are the kettlebell masters so could help set me straight.

 

[Steve Freides]

@Bearawolf, welcome to the StrongFirst forum.

Everyone who has completed this challenge is, I'll venture to say, both strong and looks the part, too.

Beast Tamer and Iron Maiden Challenge | StrongFirst

I probably should just stop there.

I'm working from memory here - one study cited in Pavel's first kettlebell book found that, among soldiers who followed a kettlebell training protocol, 22% lost weight, 22% gained weight, and the rest remained about the same. You will probably lose some weight, and best predictions are that you'll lose more fat than you'll lose muscle.

My recommendation to you is simple: spend $20 on a copy of Kettlebell Simple and Sinister, Revised Edition. Read it from cover to cover, then read it again, then buy yourself a kettlebell or two and get started. Your questions will change from general to specific as you start to train, and you've come to the right place to look for answers and guidance on your journey.

Last but not least, you may still find a place for some barbell training in your life, but I'd focus on the S&S program for at least a few months, then see where you're at and reevaluate at that time.

-S-

 

[Bauer]

Hi all,

I’m an ex powerlifter (250kg squat, 140kg Bench, 230kg deadlift) & fat af, around 28% body fat but I look like I lift. I’ve recently started BJJ and think KB’s are more suited to my new sport - less recovery debt than my previous PL training, workouts are shorter, and it’s cheaper to buy a few KB’s for home than it is to buy a home gym to manage my BJJ in the afternoon and still get strength work in.

However, I’m just wondering what sort of strength & aesthetics KB’s can give you? I know they won’t make me as strong as I am when I was powerlifting, but I’d still like to be stronger than the average and be able to move heavy objects easily - will KB’s still allow me to do this?

Further, obviously I can load my pulling movements on my pull-up bar at home for upper body Hypertrophy so that’s fine but what does pure KB training do for lower body hypertrophy? I hate little chicken legs and don’t want to be a walking meme of a somewhat muscular upper body (I know I won’t be as big as I am as a PL), but I want my legs to not look like DYEL.

Any insight would be appreciated!

cross posting here as someone on reddit said you guys are the kettlebell masters so could help set me straight.

Welcome @Bearawolf !

Please have a look at this article for some possible effects of S&S and Pavel Maceks's physique (which, of course, is also dependent on a high protein, high veggie, low carb diet).

Solid: In-Between Simple & Sinister | StrongFirst

 

[william bad butt]

You are going to love kettlebells.

You are already fairly strong compared to most people. You are sort of in a similar situation as me. I like doing a minimalist barbell strength program (1 day per week). Then spend a few days per week doing kettlebells (S&S for example would be best for a beginner, or Q&D or A&A later on once you arent a beginner with kbells). And of course practicing your BJJ.

Also, dont forget nutrition! Just switching from barbells to kbells, while eating the same food, is not going to really change your body composition that much

 

[Gravytrain]

Ive grappled for 11 years +. Nothing worked as well as S&S. You're already plenty strong from a weightlifting perspective.

If you want to get better at BJJ do lots of BJJ. Simple and Sinister translates very well to the mats if you feel the need to do some additional work.

Aesthetics wise thats a personal preference and everyone responds differently.

Good luck.

 

[Marc]

S&S is a good start for all things kettlebell. Since you are already that strong you probably won't have a very hard time reaching "simple", should you decide to go for S&S.
Although S&S is indeed a good entrance point, I think it is of somewhat lesser importance to a guy who is as strong as you (and most probably has the appropriate body awareness to that).

If you buy kettlebells heavy enough they will probably keep you busy very long for single kb and double kb overhead presses. Combine that with pullups, dips, rows and pushups and you are basically covered upper body wise.
For lower body you will be somewhat limited if you focus on kettlebells only. You can for sure work up to an impressive kettlebell front squat but a barbbell will always be a better tool to really overload the lower body. That's not to say that you can't build impressive wheels/lower body strength with kettlebells. But max strength developement in the lower body is probably best achieved with a barbbell.
If you complement your home gym with a barbbell that offers some more nice options. For example zercher squats (a great exercise to overload the quads/lower body without needing a rack) and deadlifts. Rear foot elevated split squats are another cool exercise that you can use to really overload the legs (either via heavy kettlebells in the hands or a barbbell).

 

[Mark Limbaga]

A humble observation.. Anyone who has done double bell work with 32s and eats responsibly usually looks the part..

So as you build technique thru practice, you'll definitely see gradual improvements in both your grip strength in bjj (given you have enough mat time) and noticing some aesthetic changes when you take your shirt off in front of the mirror

 

[Strong Grappler]

A humble observation.. Anyone who has done double bell work with 32s and eats responsibly usually looks the part..

Thank you. Any recommendations for who I could look at on Instagram to get an idea of the physique? I’m finding it hard to find decent pics/vids of people who do KB/Bodyweight only routines. They always seem to be wearing long pants :/

 

[Oscar]

Thank you. Any recommendations for who I could look at on Instagram to get an idea of the physique? I’m finding it hard to find decent pics/vids of people who do KB/Bodyweight only routines. They always seem to be wearing long pants :/

You can check this thread:

S&S Physique (humorous, but not really joking)

You can also check YouTube or Instagram for:

Pavel Macek
Harald Motz
Levi markwardt
Strongfirst instagram
Derek Toshner

(I might have miss spelled some, sorry).

It's unlikely any advanced kettlebell practitioner limits only to kettlebell. Why would he? But it's the main tool for the ones mentioned above.

From your stats, I'd say that it's unlikely you'll look bad if you get to 15% body fat. If you become strong with the kettlebell and reach 15% body fat, you'll be happy with you appearance, that's for sure.

A good thing is that kettlebells are great for body composition. Given your strength and body composition, I assume you dont like cardio? Ballistics can give you some of the cardio benefits in a more enjoyable format for someone who prefers strength over cardio.

 

[Marty]

Thank you. Any recommendations for who I could look at on Instagram to get an idea of the physique? I’m finding it hard to find decent pics/vids of people who do KB/Bodyweight only routines. They always seem to be wearing long pants :/

Check out (on instagram) :

@noahmarek2
@liftwithhollyandarryn
@grandersonsfg
@haraldmotz
@mavericksfieldhouse

 

[Bauer]

And make sure to read this thread (at least the beginning):
Aesthetics

On a different note: KB training can very well be combined with BB training, if you want to keep more max strength work in mix. Have a look at this plan with an Upper/Lower Body Split:
https://www.strongfirst.com/no-distractions/
Day A: TGU, Handstand Pushups, Pullups
Day B: Goblet Squats, Zercher Squats, Swings

In this plan Pavel recommends a Strength/Conditioning split:
Total Package Weekly Kettlebell Training Template | StrongFirst

This could probably be something like a plan from Tactical Barbell, 2-3x per week with 2-3 lifts (Fighter Template with Zercher Squats and Bench for example) followed by a conditioning day, mostly focused on swings at the beginning and possibly TGU (S&S). This would be very similar to Easy Strength, respectively the 40 Day workout.
The 40-Day Program | T Nation

Plain KB training is of course great, too.

 

[Steve A]

Bearawolf, I don't do or follow BJJ, but what little I've read suggests big legs are "not helpful" and the MMA guys do seem to have proportionally smaller legs than upper body. (This holds for the KB-only lifters as well.) So to some extent the aesthetics might be "appropriate" for your new sport. As for strength, KBs aren't going to match barbells and from what I've read and been told, some low volume barbell DLs may provide an edge, but whether it would provide you an edge, given your existing base of strength, who knows. Like you say having less recovery debt may be a bigger issue. But in any case, following any program doesn't have to be for life, my guess is that if you did not barbells for six months and then decided you needed them you could get back all you lost.

 

[Nate]

Some say aesthetically, Ronnie Coleman is the way to go. Most women would probably say Ronaldo is much better. There is no right answer. KBs won't make Ronnie any bigger, but can put muscle on someone else. The fighter, military or soccer player physique (muscular but not huge & low fat) certainly is attainable with KBs. Look at your own genetics though. Thin & need more muscle? KB can do that. Already a competing bodybuilder & need to go from 210 to 230 but ripped? KB probably not your best bet to add that mass. Need to have low fat, get functional/healthy, be strong (enough) & more muscular than most? KB are great. As with most questions, it depends.

 

[Mike Torres]

What I would recommend (and what I do) is train for power, strength, coordination, and endurance on the mats using StrongFirst principles. You'll find immense carryover and build a "fighter's physique" without trying so long as you eat clean. Just for fun, here's my back - before and after kettlebells

 

[Chrisdavisjr]

@Mike Torres Brah! Where'd those triceps and calf muscles come from?

 

[Mike Torres]

@Chrisdavisjr Snatches, presses, jerks, and pushups! I legit have no idea on the calves. I chalk it up to a hormonal effect and perhaps some of the level 2 ballistics because I don't run much at all, and I haven't done any isolated calf work in 15+ years.

 

[Nate]

What I would recommend (and what I do) is train for power, strength, coordination, and endurance on the mats using StrongFirst principles. You'll find immense carryover and build a "fighter's physique" without trying so long as you eat clean. Just for fun, here's my back - before and after kettlebells

Here's my 31 vs 43. Wish i could add the mass you did!

 

[Mike Torres]

Here's my 31 vs 43. Wish i could add the mass you did!

Very well done! That's about my age split as well (33 to 42).

 

[Strong Grappler]

Damn guys. Did both of you build those physiques with just kettlebell work or did you also use barbells?

 

[Mike Torres]

Damn guys. Did both of you build those physiques with just kettlebell work or did you also use barbells?

98% kettlebells + bodyweight. I did minimalist barbell deadlifts 1x/week for about 6 weeks each year over that time, but I found that KB ballistics have better carryover to jiujitsu for me, and I just felt fresher on the mats.