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Kettlebell Criticize my snatch

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Pasibrzuch

Pasibrzuch

Level 6 Valued Member
Hello,
for the last two months I've been doing A+A snatches. I'm seeing the physical and psychological benefits of this protocol. Still, I don't feel my snatching technique is dialed in. I read the topic "Learning to snatch" thoroughly but I'm still struggling with some aspects of the Tsar.

The thing that bothers me is my hand being extended on the downswing. I find it really difficult to understand the cue with leading my elbow down/slamming the bell down. Should it be something like a eccentric portion of the press and clean, sped up? Or maybe I should make my hinge more squaty?
Another thing is the work of the free hand. As you'll see in the video I make some weird gestures with it :D What should I do with it.
What weight should I be comfortable to snatch if I can swing the beast decently and do 200 swings in a 10x10 fashion with a 40kg without dying the next day Last Monday I did a session of 30 repeats with a 32k bell exclusively but had to recover for the remainder of the week. 28k feels adequate. Is there any standard I should aim at?

Videos for critique (the image is mirrored):
28kg



32kg



Thank you in advance!
 
Pasibrzuch said:
The thing that bothers me is my hand being extended on the downswing. I find it really difficult to understand the cue with leading my elbow down/slamming the bell down. Should it be something like a eccentric portion of the press and clean, sped up? Or maybe I should make my hinge more squaty?
Another thing is the work of the free hand. As you'll see in the video I make some weird gestures with it :D What should I do with it.
What weight should I be comfortable to snatch if I can swing the beast decently and do 200 swings in a 10x10 fashion with a 40kg without dying the next day Last Monday I did a session of 30 repeats with a 32k bell exclusively but had to recover for the remainder of the week. 28k feels adequate. Is there any standard I should aim at?
Click to expand...

Nice snatching, @Pasibrzuch !

Quick impression, own the lockout more, especially on the right side. Add a 2-second motionless pause with a strong solid lockout until you know exactly where that is. Then hit THAT position every time on a faster set.

You tame the arc really well on the upswing, but as you noted, not so much on the down. Try leaning back just a bit as you initiate the drop.

Don't worry about the non-working hand... But you can try making a fist.

As for the weight you can snatch, may or not be related to swing weight, but that sounds like a good ratio. Just snatch the weight that is right for you to snatch. :)
 
Attention to "the non-working arm" has been essential to my snatching improvement; I've found that it is actually doing a lot of good work throughout the movement
 
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Anna C said:
Try leaning back just a bit as you initiate the drop.
Click to expand...
At what joint should I initiate the lean-back? Should I bend my knees or lean from ankles, like in heavy swings?

@Boris Bachmann, thank you for the link! I will try to use my free hand to guide a more vertical motion.

I will practice for ~2 weeks, do my best to implement your advice and report back.
Thank you all!
 
Pasibrzuch said:
At what joint should I initiate the lean-back? Should I bend my knees or lean from ankles, like in heavy swings?
Click to expand...

Yes, ankles and knees, and make sure hips are fully extended in lockout and initiation of the drop, until you move to hinge.
 
Anna C said:
Quick impression, own the lockout more, especially on the right side. Add a 2-second motionless pause with a strong solid lockout until you know exactly where that is. Then hit THAT position every time on a faster set.
Click to expand...
This.

3 more -

1) Safety. Your diaphragmatic breath needs to be timed with the hip snap. On the video you are exhaling at lockout.

2) For the drop - After a 2 second lockout, initiate the drop with a subtle bump of the wrist, as the bell is falling focus on pulling your elbow back towards your back pocket, this will tame the arc. Eventually, you want to be able to have full control of the bell on the way down. You want to be "pulling" it down, not just letting gravity have its way with you. The increased eccentric load will store up and re-lauch that bell back up. This is what a Hardstyle practice is all about.

3) Video practice - Continue to shoot from the side view and lean a dowel up against the wall (you could put up a piece of masking tape as well). Stand evenly with the dowel and take a step back. Now when analyzing your form, make sure the bell path does not cross that imaginary line represented by the dowel. You could do this same drill while facing a wall, BUT if you miss once, now you have a new porthole in your wall. After enough practice you will intuitively know where that line is and your bell path will be tight.

This is important because in the event you attempt the snatch test, on Day 3 of the SFG cert, you will want every single ounce of energy available to complete 100 reps with time to spare. I've seen many big, strong dudes get smoked and fail because their form was sloppy, they had energy leaks all over the place, and thought they could just muscle through it.

All the best.
 
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Well, it took me some time to record.
I tried to implement all the cues mentioned here. Also, I'm doing my best do work on my non-weight-hand movement according to this article.
Here's me snatching 36kg for repeats of three during holidays:
Here's a video from a month ago: 044 with a 28kg bell.
I think my down swing is a little bit better now but still, it could happen closer to the body. I moved to a new place, where doing wall-snatches will be no issue, so maybe it will give me some improvement.
And yes, I have to be more mindful with counting reps while doing 044. Everything above 5 reps is quantum physics for me :)
All suggestions are welcome.
 
In regards to your lean back question..

What I do is shift my weight to my ankles then pull the bell down to initiate the drop..

I'd say try this out first with a 24 or 28 to groove the technique then work back up to a 32..

Your form is fairly safe so you can now dial in the smaller details one at a time
 
Pasibrzuch said:
Everything above 5 reps is quantum physics for me :)
All suggestions are welcome.
Click to expand...
Your 044 cadence should be 2 seconds a rep.
I use interval training apps, and have the screen of my tablet or phone in front of me. So you can program 10 seconds or 20 seconds working sets, respectively for 5/4 or 10/2, and not to sweat about counting reps yourself.
 
Your overhead position. Military press or snatch, both of them are supposed to be finished in same form. Remembering the overhead position of military press and do snatch afterwards might do the job. Overall there’s no significant flaws in your snatch. Just the overhead position.
 
Quick suggestions:
It is difficult to build/change technique while trying to sprint and "train" with that weight/exercise.
A&A with a weight(s) that you have confidence in should allow you to build your technique.
Maybe doing a bit of weight ladder EMOM x 5 reps with 24kg R > 24kg L > 28kg R > 28kg L > 32kg R > 32kg L and repeat
Count the number at the top—the exhale will occur at the finish of the hips and then you will audibly count the rep while holding the lockout.
 
An honest thank you to every body who took time to respond.
Just to make sure: @Brett Jones and @taikei - the overhead position is problematic in the regard of what exactly? Should the bell go back even more?
 
Pasibrzuch said:
An honest thank you to every body who took time to respond.
Just to make sure: @Brett Jones and @taikei - the overhead position is problematic in the regard of what exactly? Should the bell go back even more?
Click to expand...
Not bad but can be stabilized better.
In a good overhead position, you can walk 10 yards and back and still feel good about it.
Lacking stability means arm is doing stabilization instead of shoulder. If you do an overhead walk and arm is trembling, then that’s the case.
 
The lockout position should be "better" but not necessarily further back.
If you implement my suggestion of being able to audibly count the rep at the top you will find a better and more stable position.
Again—you are trying to "sprint" and train with a weight while trying to make technique changes.
It would be better to work on the technique in a protocol that doesn't require you to sprint.
 
Thank you for clarification!
I think I'm starting to grasp why q&d is called training for advanced minimalists, not intermediate minimalists.
Since I'm in the middle of my q&d block I wil finish it. Then I'll introduce emom snatches with audible counting, as prescribed and submit another video.
Thank you!
 
The adventure goes on.
I love how humbling staying with one weight is.
I've been applying the cue with audible counting at the top since the last post. Here are the effects:




My concerns:
- torso turn/overpulling: is it safe and acceptable that during the pull phase I twist my torso slightly? Should I use any particular accessories for this issue?
- elbow: is my elbow not traveling too high?
- weight: should I stay with this weight and carry on clearing my technique or go a bell lower (28kgs)
To fix these issues I started to implement double half-snatch as an accessory:




My concerns:
- elbows again: are they wandering too high? Would I be better off if I make double clean my accessory? Going lighter with DHSn is not an option (I don't have two 16kg bells).

My current protocol:
snatch 12/16/20/24 repeats, rest to 135HR for aerobic benefits, ES double military press 3x a week
Muay Thai in the evening 2-3x a week
Jogging 2x a week

Again, looking forward to your criticism.
 
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