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Barbell Starting weight in Russian bear program

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Arun

Arun

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Hi,

I am Arun. I'm 34 years old, 5'9" and I weigh 94 kilos(207 lbs), more fat than muscle :D.

I have been training for some years now but not regularly. I was following Heavy Duty training by Mike Mentzer, which is a high intensity protocol with one working set till total muscle failure. I wasn't really regular with the program. I saw Pavel's article on Faleev's 80/20. I started it and its just been a month since and then I've now read PTTP and reading Naked Warrior now. I am really in awe with the results and I'm hooked on strength training. Its just amazing like taking care of a few things how fast the lift improves and the concept of strenght as a skill just blew my mind.

I want to try out the Russian bear program for 3-6 months. On 80/20 I started with the load i was lifting in my old program while the results were amazing and i used to feel so fatigued by the end of the heavy days. Then while i was reading PTTP i realised i should have started with a much lesser load. Now that i am starting bear program what percentage of my 1RM should i start with? Plus I wanna know some nutrition advice. I dont want to do something extreme like anabolic diet, atleast for now. Is there a way for me to build muscle with less fat, coz Im indian and eatting clean and alot on indian food isn't really hard, its actually pretty awesome.

Currently my PR is 140 Kilograms (308 lbs) in dead lift, 125 kg in squat (275lbs) and 75 kg in Bench press (165lbs).

Also I'm really into kettlebells too and would like to practice and learn swings and get-up (haven't read S&S yet, it's next on my list). I have one 12 kilo and one 20 kilo kettlebell with me right now. Is there protocol i can use to practice KB with the bear program with out exerting myself too much.

Thank you in advance. I've been going through the forum everyday for a couple of week now. Love the discussions and advice here.
 
Spartan Agoge said:
80-85% of your 5rm would be a good starting weight.
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Hi,

That would be perfect for the normal protocol from PTTP but isn't that a bit too much? in ball park that weight would be 95 kg for my deadlift. Pavel has mentioned to take a couple of plates off the bell in the book. I was wondering if it should be 75-65% of 1RM or even lower 40-50% of 1RM
 
He's right, 80% of 5RM, -> around 70% of 1RM.

Do the day's 100% - 5min break - 90% - x min break(?) - x times 80% with 60-90 s breaks for as long as you can without feeling fatigue, slowing down. In kilos 95, 85 and 75
 
Find our what your 5RM is (with good form). Then use 80% of that for your working weight.
 
Timo Keskitalo said:
He's right, 80% of 5RM, -> around 70% of 1RM.

Do the day's 100% - 5min break - 90% - x min break(?) - x times 80% with 60-90 s breaks for as long as you can without feeling fatigue, slowing down. In kilos 95, 85 and 75
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Hi Timo,

Thank you Timo. I will start with that mate. You have any advise on adding some KB swings, maybe on the off days?
 
Arun said:
Hi Timo,

Thank you Timo. I will start with that mate. You have any advise on adding some KB swings, maybe on the off days?
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I don't do KBs, so I can't really say. I believe that the bear will be tough. You probably can do only restoration on the side.
 
Timo Keskitalo said:
He's right, 80% of 5RM, -> around 70% of 1RM.
Do the day's 100% - 5min break - 90% - x min break(?) - x times 80% with 60-90 s breaks for as long as you can without feeling fatigue, slowing down. In kilos 95, 85 and 75
Click to expand...

As I read the commentary in PTTP, around 70% of 1RM ends up the above the maximum weight contemplated for The Bear, working back from the highest 5 rep first set weight in any cycle. Most people's 5RM is about 85% of their 1RM. Pavel suggests working up to 95% of your maximum (occasionally) with the Bear having the first back off set at 90% then the multiple sets at 80%. So a cycle would peak at 95% of 85% (eg 95% of 5RM) meaning your Bear back off sets would be 65% at most and usually lower. So the Bear utilises what for most people would be their 12-15RM weight (as I read it)
 
LukeV said:
As I read the commentary in PTTP, around 70% of 1RM ends up the above the maximum weight contemplated for The Bear, working back from the highest 5 rep first set weight in any cycle. Most people's 5RM is about 85% of their 1RM. Pavel suggests working up to 95% of your maximum (occasionally) with the Bear having the first back off set at 90% then the multiple sets at 80%. So a cycle would peak at 95% of 85% (eg 95% of 5RM) meaning your Bear back off sets would be 65% at most and usually lower. So the Bear utilises what for most people would be their 12-15RM weight (as I read it)
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Hi Luke. That's what i though too. Even doing the 80/20 program, just doing 5x5 with 85% 1RM used to make me really tired. So I went and re-read the bear section on PTTP, in that Pavel hasn't metioned to reduce the load further. He says the the reduction in weight and rest between sets in the follow up sets are compromises.
So i guess i'll start with 70% of 1RM this week and see. I'm pretty new to volume training so maybe thats why I felt so fatigued earlier.
 
Arun said:
Hi Luke. That's what i though too. Even doing the 80/20 program, just doing 5x5 with 85% 1RM used to make me really tired. So I went and re-read the bear section on PTTP, in that Pavel hasn't metioned to reduce the load further. He says the the reduction in weight and rest between sets in the follow up sets are compromises.
So i guess i'll start with 70% of 1RM this week and see. I'm pretty new to volume training so maybe thats why I felt so fatigued earlier.
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All %RM calculations are estimates, more or less true depending on the person and the rep range measured. To use your example, if 85% is truly your 5RM then you shouldn't be able to do 5x5 at that weight unless you were in the gym a long time. Humans don't recover from repeated max efforts just like that. The Bear is all about multiple sets to failure so you should be fatigued at the end - you shouldn't stop before that point is reached. The real question is whether X multiple sets @ 70% 1RM builds more or less muscle than Y multiple sets @ 65% 1RM. I always try a program as recommended before adjusting it but good luck with your approach. Please post your insights
 
LukeV said:
if 85% is truly your 5RM then you shouldn't be able to do 5x5 at that weight
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Exactly.

Keep in mind that you start with 68%(61%,54%) and end with 85% (77%, 68%). I made it more accurate (0,85x0,8=0,68) to point out that in the end you should do the multiple sets with the same weight that you start the cycle with.

Do a step cycle or a wave depending what plates you have. Don't stay with one weight.

Remember, when beginning it's more about learning the techniques, tension. Focus on that. The explanation in the book is great. For MOST of us, not all, it should be achievable to get 2xBW 1RM, which means 1,7xBW 5RM. Once you get close to that you should worry about the bear really. You can do it of course if you want, but focus on the tension. Moving slowly is taxing.

Also remember that percentages may vary individually, I suppose that's why Pavel doesn't want to use them. Only percentages are the percentages of the days weight.
 
Weights in the 50-70% range can be very good for hypertrophy. I imagine a Bear calculated to make the multiple sets portion land in the 60-70% 1RM range would be effective for the program's stated goals of both strength and hypertrophy.

-S-
 
LukeV said:
All %RM calculations are estimates, more or less true depending on the person and the rep range measured. To use your example, if 85% is truly your 5RM then you shouldn't be able to do 5x5 at that weight unless you were in the gym a long time. Humans don't recover from repeated max efforts just like that. The Bear is all about multiple sets to failure so you should be fatigued at the end - you shouldn't stop before that point is reached. The real question is whether X multiple sets @ 70% 1RM builds more or less muscle than Y multiple sets @ 65% 1RM. I always try a program as recommended before adjusting it but good luck with your approach. Please post your insights
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Thanks mate. First week is anyway going to be a trial. I will start with 70% so that i can focus on the form and tension. Will keep posting the results
 
Timo Keskitalo said:
Exactly.

Keep in mind that you start with 68%(61%,54%) and end with 85% (77%, 68%). I made it more accurate (0,85x0,8=0,68) to point out that in the end you should do the multiple sets with the same weight that you start the cycle with.

Do a step cycle or a wave depending what plates you have. Don't stay with one weight.

Remember, when beginning it's more about learning the techniques, tension. Focus on that. The explanation in the book is great. For MOST of us, not all, it should be achievable to get 2xBW 1RM, which means 1,7xBW 5RM. Once you get close to that you should worry about the bear really. You can do it of course if you want, but focus on the tension. Moving slowly is taxing.

Also remember that percentages may vary individually, I suppose that's why Pavel doesn't want to use them. Only percentages are the percentages of the days weight.
Click to expand...
Yea you're right mate. I will start around 70% and keep the main focus on tension and form. Yup i was thinking the same about mixing step and wave cycling. i recon i will get to the 2 x BW in about six months amd from there i'll move towards a 5x5 for of power lifting training. After reading Pavels article on Faleev, i really want to compete in an armature or novice tournaments. It'll be fun
 
Steve Freides said:
Weights in the 50-70% range can be very good for hypertrophy. I imagine a Bear calculated to make the multiple sets portion land in the 60-70% 1RM range would be effective for the program's stated goals of both strength and hypertrophy.

-S-
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Thank you @Steve Freides . I will start with 70% of the weight. Whats your advice on learning Kettlebell swings along with the bear program. I got on 12 kg kettlebell and one 20 kg kettle bell. It wouldn't too much if i do 50 swings 3-4 days a week?
 
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I was under the impression of you figure out your 5rm and you start at about 80% of that weight which would make your bear sets 80% of that weight
 
HUNTER1313 said:
I was under the impression of you figure out your 5rm and you start at about 80% of that weight which would make your bear sets 80% of that weight
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The Bear is written as an add on to the normal PTTP routine. There are no special rules provided for the first two sets. You simply add The Bear, that is multiple back-off sets at 80% of the weight used for the first set. Because the first set is waved, assumedly The Bear sets can be waved too. But in any event PTTP does not recommend 100% of your 5RM for the first set, but does contemplate waving up to 95% on occasions
 
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