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Other/Mixed Best push exercise for upper body

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
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erwin

Level 2 Valued Member
Hello Guys,


what do you think is the best push exercise for the upper body if you have to pick one?
I have read that Pavel thinks dips are better than military press (if your shoulder is ok with it).
But I dont get really why it is so. Because the military press gets you better neck muscles, a better shoulder stability (because all parts of the shoulder are trained at the top) and it trains the complete body (tension).
Where dips dont train the neck, train only the front part of the shoulder and dont give you more total body tension.
And then there is also the push up (weighted) which is the best for shoulder health, gives you body tension, but sadly trains only the front part of the shoulder and dont develop big neck muscels.

So what do you think, which of the above mentioned exercise is the best push exercise for the upper body? (no bench press, because i dont have one)

My workout plan at the moment:
Mo: Cycling/ running
Tu: Deadlift + Military Press
We: Cycling/ running
Thu: Squat + Weighted Push ups
Fr: Cycling/ running
Sa: Deadlift + Military Press
So: Off
Mo: Cycling/ running
Tu: Deadlift + Military Press

and so on.


All the best
Erwin
 
My take is: eventually u will stall out on a lift. On MP, pretty quickly too. I would cycle between BP, OHP, PP once I make a new PR, keeps the program interesting as well if you are the type who craves a bit of variation.

In your case, either MP or weighted pushups will do. Try it out and see how it goes?

“Best” is always contextual, and situational as well. There can be a “best” exercise but if you don’t like it, will end up being quite detrimental to overall training if it makes you think twice about training.
 
The military press is a great exercise but, performed correctly, you shouldn't get too much involvement from the traps so I don't see it growing your neck in the same way as trap bar shrugs, snatch/clean pulls or lateral raises.

If strengthening/growing the neck is important, I would recommend doing separate exercises for that purpose and not allowing it to influence your choice of press.

You mentioned not having a bench: Have you ever tried the barbell floor press? I don't have access to a bench at the moment and, while it's not quite the same, it's still a great exercise:

​
 
Learning a proper military press with the barbell is hard. Dips is much easier, and could be loaded very heavy
 
Hello,

I really like the OVH press. It transfers better to horizontal push than the reverse. So if weights are available (kb, bb) this is my press exercise of choice.

Otherwise, when limited to bodyweight only, I go for different push up variations (OA / OAOL) and feet elevations up to HSPU. I "complete" with core exercise (because HSPU does not work the core as much as the regular OVH press).

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
erwin said:
what do you think is the best push exercise for the upper body if you have to pick one?
Click to expand...

I think with upper body strength training it's especially important to distinguish the goal. Hypertrophy, well-rounded muscular development with stability and injury prevention, maximal full-body strength, other?

For full-body strength, the overhead press rules.

Or better yet -- overload the overhead press with pin press or jerks. If you've never tried holding a heavier weight overhead than what you can press (or get-up, or bent press), you're missing out... It's an awesome feeling.

But if the goal is more along the lines of bodybuilding, overhead press wouldn't be my first choice. Not that I'm an expert on bodybuilding, lol. But it doesn't seem to be a favorite of theirs. I imagine because the higher loads and full-body involvement means that less stress/effort/energy/recovery resource is directed at specific muscle development, therefore it's not optimal.
 
My own experience says the good old pushup.

Like always it's an "it depends" situation. For pure upper body pushing strength I would go with the bench press, for hypertrophy my vote goes to weighted dips etc.
If I combine every aspect from max strength, endurance, well being etc. my overall vote goes to the pushup.
 
For the general population (not me, although I've recently reintroduced it as an assistance lift):

Landmine press

Why?

  • Is an ergonomically friendlier plane of motion than the BB OHP, closer to the KB press
  • You can micro-load it like a bench press, unlike the KB press
  • Simpler to progress (just add weight) than a push up
  • Natural scapular motion, unlike a BB bench press
  • Involves full scapular protraction and serratus anterior work, unlike a BB bench press
  • You can do it unilaterally or bilaterally
  • You can do it standing, kneeling, or lunging, involving more or less core as suits your needs
  • Half kneeling variant trains the neglected glute medius
  • Works your lats on a slow eccentric
  • You can choose a plane of motion that is more chest or more shoulders dominant, according to your preference
  • You can do it in anterior or lateral planes
  • Introduces elements of cross-body stabilization and anti-rotation to the push
  • Cheaper than a full bench + rack set up
  • Safer than bench press -- you can't drop a bar on your neck or chest
  • Easy to teach proper form
 
Last edited:
Antti said:
In general I think variety is very important. A month or two with some variations, then next one, and so on, is the best choice in my opinion.
Click to expand...

The first 2-3 weeks are consumed in getting stronger via neurological adaptation, according to research on monkeys.

If you switch at 4 weeks, that gives only 1 week of hypertrophy-dominant adaptations to kick in.

As a result, I don't switch more frequently than every 8 weeks, and usually it's 12.
 
watchnerd said:
The first 2-3 weeks are consumed in getting stronger via neurological adaptation, according to research on monkeys.

If you switch at 4 weeks, that gives only 1 week of hypertrophy-dominant adaptations to kick in.

As a result, I don't switch more frequently than every 8 weeks, and usually it's 12.
Click to expand...

You mean the study published a week or two ago? You're on the top of the wave.

Still. Is the 2-3 weeks of different adaptations something that happens every time one takes an exercise into rotation or when one takes a whole new exercise? What about exercise variations? And how do we differentiate?

The monkeys did a lot of the exercise. How long does it take to get to hypertrophy gains if one does an exercise for 30 minutes once a week?

Also, why would one have to instigate hypertrophy with a specific exercise?
 
Antti said:
The monkeys did a lot of the exercise. How long does it take to get to hypertrophy gains if one does an exercise for 30 minutes once a week?

Also, why would one have to instigate hypertrophy with a specific exercise?
Click to expand...

Yes, the monkey study from a few weeks ago. ;)

"How long does it take" -- well, that depends on the "training age" of the lifter in the specific exercise and a bazillion other factors. I can still get 'newbie gains' if I train something I've never done before (e.g. in my case, heavy adductor work).

You certainly don't have to instigate hypertrophy, and if your training goal is to train the nervous system, build skill, athletic abilities, etc, then switching more often might be better.

But if you want hypertrophy, why not do it with an exercise you've spent time learning well enough?
 
watchnerd said:
Yes, the monkey study from a few weeks ago. ;)

"How long does it take" -- well, that depends on the "training age" of the lifter in the specific exercise and a bazillion other factors. I can still get 'newbie gains' if I train something I've never done before (e.g. in my case, heavy adductor work).

You certainly don't have to instigate hypertrophy, and if your training goal is to train the nervous system, build skill, athletic abilities, etc, then switching more often might be better.

But if you want hypertrophy, why not do it with an exercise you've spent time learning well enough?
Click to expand...

Yes, I would expect it to depend on a lot of factors and that the generalization of four weeks an exercise is far too simple. Like compare a close grip bench press to a bench press. How about if we do it at an incline or with dumbbells? I would imagine this would correlate with the carryover of the exercise.

So I wouldn't really worry about exercise variations. Like the monkey learned to do a loaded pull. We don't need the four weeks if we change from a low pulley row to a barbell row to a dumbbell row. Maybe not as much even with a lat pulldown or a pull up or a chin up. And once we've got a hang of some of these, I doubt we'd spend all three weeks without hypertrophy doing it again after a break .

When it comes to hypertrophy and exercise selection, I understand there are different schools that see it differently. Some go as far to see as hypertrophy as load and exercise specific. I will not go that far, or even close to it, but there are factors in how useful hypertrophy gained in one exercise is in another. A familiar exercise is good yes, but exercise novelty is still a component of the overload stimulus, even if a less important one.
 
Antti said:
When it comes to hypertrophy and exercise selection, I understand there are different schools that see it differently. Some go as far to see as hypertrophy as load and exercise specific. I will not go that far, or even close to it, but there are factors in how useful hypertrophy gained in one exercise is in another. A familiar exercise is good yes, but exercise novelty is still a component of the overload stimulus, even if a less important one.
Click to expand...

Well, SAID is a real thing.

Because I train for a sport, SAID matters a lot to me.

But if one is just lifting things for health and recreation, then just do whatever is fun for you.
`
 
Thanks guys, as always great input.(y)


Chrisdavisjr said:
The military press is a great exercise but, performed correctly, you shouldn't get too much involvement from the traps so I don't see it growing your neck in the same way as trap bar shrugs, snatch/clean pulls or lateral raises.

You mentioned not having a bench: Have you ever tried the barbell floor press? I don't have access to a bench at the moment and, while it's not quite the same, it's still a great exercise:
Click to expand...

I disagree with that, if you do the military press with a barbell and shrug at the top, your traps are involved and it prevents shoulder problems.
No I havent tried the floor press (didnt know that exercise). Is the range of motion not low? How is your opinion about it?

Antti said:
Pavel thinks the bench press is the best press exercise: The Best Press Exercise | StrongFirst

The bench press is a great exercise indeed.

If think push presses and jerks are too underappreciated.

In general I think variety is very important. A month or two with some variations, then next one, and so on, is the best choice in my opinion.
Click to expand...

As @the hansenator said, pavel mentioned that the dip is the best push exercise.


pet' said:
Hello,

I really like the OVH press. It transfers better to horizontal push than the reverse.
Click to expand...

I heard that too. Do you know why it is so?

North Coast Miller said:
Loaded pushups would be my vote
Click to expand...

Why?


Anna C said:
I think with upper body strength training it's especially important to distinguish the goal. Hypertrophy, well-rounded muscular development with stability and injury prevention, maximal full-body strength, other?

For full-body strength, the overhead press rules.

Or better yet -- overload the overhead press with pin press or jerks. If you've never tried holding a heavier weight overhead than what you can press (or get-up, or bent press), you're missing out... It's an awesome feeling.

But if the goal is more along the lines of bodybuilding, overhead press wouldn't be my first choice. Not that I'm an expert on bodybuilding, lol. But it doesn't seem to be a favorite of theirs. I imagine because the higher loads and full-body involvement means that less stress/effort/energy/recovery resource is directed at specific muscle development, therefore it's not optimal.
Click to expand...

Thanks Anna! Why do you think the overhead press is better than the bench press? The load is much higher at pench pressing, like other said.
Whats your opinion on weighted push ups?
My goal is the maximal full-body strength.


offwidth said:
@erwin
Along the lines of what @Anna C said..... it probably depends upon what your goals are
Click to expand...
My goal is the maximal full-body strength.


watchnerd said:
For the general population (not me, although I've recently reintroduced it as an assistance lift):

Landmine press

Why?

  • Is an ergonomically friendlier plane of motion than the BB OHP, closer to the KB press
  • You can micro-load it like a bench press, unlike the KB press
  • Simpler to progress (just add weight) than a push up
  • Natural scapular motion, unlike a BB bench press
  • Involves full scapular protraction and serratus anterior work, unlike a BB bench press
  • You can do it unilaterally or bilaterally
  • You can do it standing, kneeling, or lunging, involving more or less core as suits your needs
  • Half kneeling variant trains the neglected glute medius
  • Works your lats on a slow eccentric
  • You can choose a plane of motion that is more chest or more shoulders dominant, according to your preference
  • You can do it in anterior or lateral planes
  • Introduces elements of cross-body stabilization and anti-rotation to the push
  • Cheaper than a full bench + rack set up
  • Safer than bench press -- you can't drop a bar on your neck or chest
  • Easy to teach proper form
Click to expand...
Didnt thought about the landmine press. Great input @watchnerd
I will try this, thank you.
 
I don't remember Pavel saying that the dip is the best. Because something is "maybe" in some special circumstances, means nothing.

Just have a look at what the best of the best are doing in sport, whether it's the Olympics or some big money professional sports. I will quote Pavel from the linked article: " The bench press has a long record of building unbelievably strong upper bodies. Its invention was a strength game changer. Which is why serious power athletes have been benching, are benching, and will be benching."
 
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