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Bodyweight Karl Gotch bible: exaggerated claims?

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Norbert

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Hi folks,

I'm 49 years old and a Senshido full instructor (Senshido is a Canadian reality-based self-defense style). Almost 20 years ago, I started training "seriously", first using calisthenics (Matt Furey is the one to blame here), later adding kettlebells (Pavel is the one to blame ;) )

In self-protection scenarios, one of the most important things is having enough gas in the tank because the adrenaline dump can deplete your reserves pretty much instantly. I found out that old-school catch-wrestling calisthenics and prison workouts (hundreds of reps per day) work for me, and I really like them.

This is where it gets interesting. Wrestling god Karl Gotch used something he called "the bible":


"Karl Gotch bible"
regular 52 card deck
clubs = Hindu jump squats
spades = Hindu squats
hearts = hindu pushups
diamonds = half moon pushups
joker 1 = 40 hindu squats
joker 2 = 20 hindu pushups

red cards: do as many reps as the card shows, aces=11, faces=10
black cards: do twice as many reps as the card shows; aces=22; faces=20

Shuffle the cards, then draw one, do the reps, next one till you're finished

If I'm correct, that's 115 hindu pushups, 95 half moon pushups, 230 hindu squats and 190 hindu jump squats.

The interesting thing is that you stand up before drawing a new card, this enhances the conditioning effect.



A week ago, I started using calisthenics, isos and strandpulling exclusively again, after a long stint with kettlebells. Of course, to honor Karl Gotch, I'm doing the Gotch Bible every day.

Yesterday, with ample rest, it took me 31:37 minutes to complete the whole deck.
That's 630 reps in total, or 3 seconds per rep. This includes getting to the floor for pushups, and standing back up again to draw a new card.

And just yesterday, I read someone's post online (not here, though), claiming he had finished the Gotch Bible in 15 minutes straight.
HOW? That's 1.4 seconds per rep, including lying down and getting up.

Is this possible?

Greetings from Germany,
Norbert
 
Hello,

I agree with @Wes P

Frankly, I do not think this is possible, at least with proper form and getting up between each reps. Maybe with partial reps, without "mixing" by following the card but even that way it sounds quite fast.

If this kind of training interests you, and if you want to get some variety (even if he mentions Gotch as a source), Josh Bryant is very interesting. He has interesting bodyweight stuff (Jailhouse Strong) and is very "GPP" and fight-oriented (what he calls "gas station ready").

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Ah, I'm relieved. So I'm not the only one with doubts :)

If this kind of training interests you, and if you want to get some variety (even if he mentions Gotch as a source), Josh Bryant is very interesting. He has interesting bodyweight stuff (Jailhouse Strong) and is very "GPP" and fight-oriented (what he calls "gas station ready").

pet', thank you, I'm a huge fan of Josh's methods. I followed his Jailhouse Strong for almost a year, religiously. Really good stuff.

Also, all the old catch wrestling methods I know are really, really good. Combining them with isos really works for me. And it's fun!

Have a good weekend, guys.
 
I remember when Furey’s Combat Conditioning book came out and there were soon claims of 600-700 Hindu pushups being done daily. ?Wes P and Pet are right.
 
And just yesterday, I read someone's post online (not here, though), claiming he had finished the Gotch Bible in 15 minutes straight.
HOW? That's 1.4 seconds per rep, including lying down and getting up.

Is that someone me, and online the German kkb by any chance? ;-)
If so, yes, I did finish that workout in under 15 minutes. Do I have video-proof? No. Would I stake my life on the fact that I counted every rep correctly? Also no. Do I think it's possible? Sure, I know it is, and I am positive I could equal my time again if I specialized in the workout again.

As far as plausibility goes, please consider this: I was 22 at the time, former middle distance track runner, resting pulse under 50, weighing 76 kg at a height of 1.86 m, training a total of 20+ hours per week (wrestling, sambo, judo) and doing the Gotch bible an average of 5 times per week for half a year straight, including with additional weights (up to 20 kg in a backpack). Therefore, the question is a) can you do the reps at the required cadence b) can you do so without resting throughout. All of the exercises can be done in under one second per rep, so no problem there. Not resting is just a question of strength endurance and economy of motion. It is similar to doing 100 burpees for time - most people will struggle to get them under 10 minutes, some can do them under 5, and some can do so in an unbroken set.
Now, whether you choose to believe it is possible to do the Gotch Bible in 15 minutes or not isn't important to me. If you get what you want out of the workout, great. I should also point out that there are various variations you can do in order to produce various effects (I have written about that in "Sei stark", wich can be found on archives), and at the time, I was doing the workout mostly to get my wrestling pace up, therefore with the intent to build lactic acid tolerance.

Cheers
Period.
 
Oh, and one more thing: My view on the exercises is that they simulate classic wrestling situations, in their classic form wrestling on sand - you will not squat like this on a mat, for example. Hindu push-ups simulate two things, sprawl mechanics and defense against Nelsons (especially if you exaggerate the head motion; see the Encyclopedia of Indian Physical Culture for more details). Half moon push-ups simulate parterre defense, especially leg lace defense. The squats simulate leg attacks, as practiced on sand (if you wanted to apply this as a concept instead of as an exercise, you would substitute shots for high crotch/double leg, sweep single etc., but on sand, you cannot apply too much force forward or sideways and need to lift mostly vertically). It is because of this specific connection that I think doing the Gotch Bible is worth my time, not because it is an easy way to count reps or as a pure strength-endurance and/or cardio workout, and frankly, if I wanted the latter I would do other things. When I do the exercises, I see myself doing the motion with a partner, and that is how I choose my tempo and motion, with the intent to move fast and power through any resistance I might meet. Now, you could do them slow and deliberate for a different purpose, but if you watch any videos of how the Indian wrestlers themselves do their squats and push-ups, there is nothing slow about it.

Cheers
Period.
 
Hello,

@Period
I was 22 at the time, former middle distance track runner, resting pulse under 50, weighing 76 kg at a height of 1.86 m, training a total of 20+ hours per week (wrestling, sambo, judo) and doing the Gotch bible an average of 5 times per week for half a year straight, including with additional weights (up to 20 kg in a backpack).
Were you a competitive athlete to get this amount of training ?

Basically, what was a typical week ? How did you train (beyond the specific activities per se) ?

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Hello,

@Period

Were you a competitive athlete to get this amount of training ?

Basically, what was a typical week ? How did you train (beyond the specific activities per se) ?

Kind regards,

Pet'

Yes, I was. I competed in wrestling up to the 2017 season in Austrian Bundesliga. My training changed quite a bit over time. At the time we are talking about here, I trained in the evening:
- wrestling on Tuesday and Friday in my club, sometimes on Wednesday in another club (as long as my coach was coaching there). Usually, I would arrive early, help with the kid's training and get a circuit in before the main training. During season, I would afterwards jog the 8 km home to help with cutting weight. I would have my long rubber bands in my backpack along with my wrestling gear, stop at a football field halfway and get in a couple hundred technique imitations.
- Sambo on Thursday and Sunday (same as above, although if I jogged home from Sambo, it would be 14 km)
- Judo on Wednesday (I would coach kid wrestling in the afternoon)
- On Monday, I would coach MMA-guys in wrestling and roll with them a bit and/or get in some interval cardio afterwards
It worked, since I was young, had few injuries and was only basically training studying.

Aside from that, at the time I usually trained in the morning to space out my workouts as much as possible. As stated above, for about half a year I did the Gotch Bible very regularly. Afterwards, I experimented with various concepts of radwork (taking a sandbag of up to 40 kg and doing exercises along the way, dragging tires...), lots of rubber band work, rope climbing etc. I also got myself my own 50 kg wrestling dummy to get in extra suplex work whenever I found the time. I did a lot of bridging (falling into the bridge with extra weight, flipovers, spins, wall walks...). I didn't do a lot of weights at the time, mostly circuits, sometimes pull-ups with additional weight, but mostly rope climbs, which according to my coach are vastly superior for wrestling (I agree). I did a few burpee phases as well, whenever I found myself short on imagination or motivation.
I turned to lifting more weights again later, when I had to move up in weight because my team wanted me to. Then I did kettlebells, some powerlifting-tpye stuff. I wrote a book about my training approach and experiences in German under the pen name of John Flais, titled "Sei stark!" (be strong) in 2014. You can google it, it can be found for free on archives.org
Later (2014-2017), I changed my approach again to more bodyweight-based work and lots of rubber band training because I had a new wrestling coach from Dagestan who didn't think much of weights (btw, I had Russian teammated who had no idea what a kettlebell or girya was, but they sure knew their rubber bands). I am currently working on a new bok about rubber band training for grapplers, which again will be available for free on archives (no strings attached), but this time I wrote it in English. It should be finished in a few weeks and will be titled "Where the rubber hits the mat".

Cheers
Period.
 
Hello,

@Period

Were you a competitive athlete to get this amount of training ?

Basically, what was a typical week ? How did you train (beyond the specific activities per se) ?

Kind regards,

Pet'
20+ hours per week of training is a fair bit to be sure, but not all that out of reach depending upon the type of training we are talking about. (Or in some cases if we include actual 'events' as training.) I am 63 and if I am gearing up for a race then I routinely will put 15hrs a week in the saddle. Add in some almost daily S&S and some mobility stuff then 20hrs is common. Granted... this is not something that (for me at least) can be kept up indefinitely, but it is possible for some length of time; at least a month or so...

If you include 'events' then 20+ hours of 'training' in a day becomes a reality as well. Albeit not sustainable... nor necessarily healthy...
 
Hello,

@Period
So you ran a lot to build a strong aerobic base, and did the Gotch Bible to build lactic tolerance, and occasionally lifted weights.

Could you describe, even roughly, what a circuit looked like (regardless this is a calisthenics circuit, or a weight circuit or a blend of both) ?

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
One circuit I particularly loved was the 1000 rep workout by John Gruenwald, done with a bulgarian bag. It used to appear on the Suples website, but if it's still there somewhere, they moved it one again. You choose a bulgarian bag or plate according to your weight class (he suggested 12 kg for middleweights if I remember correctly, I worked up to 17-20 kg). You do 4 sets, 1st set is 10 reps per exercise, 2nd 40, 3rd 30, 4th 20. No rest between exercises, rest as needed between circuits (1-3 minutes, preferably less).

1. around the worlds / spins
2. snatches
3. good mornings
4. trunk twists, bag on shoulders
5. jump squats
6. military press (hands in the loops; if using a weight plate, do overhead triceps extensions)
7. Hammer Curls
8. High Pulls
9. Sit-ups (with bag)
10. push ups (with bag; Gruenwald said "on the bag" - with hands on the bag - but I usually balanced the bag on my back)
I usually added some wrestling bridge variation as no. 11.

We had a lot of similar weight plate circuits, mostly to build up shoulder endurance for pummeling. Feel free to check Sei Stark for some variations, you could try to copy and paste any part you're interested in into a translator, or just PM me about specifics.

Cheers
Period.
 
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