all posts post new thread

Barbell Combining Kettlebell/Barbell/BJJ

Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)

sreiche

Level 3 Valued Member
Hi, first of all a big thanks to the community. I already got a lot of value from reading articles and forum posts.

Over the years I experienced over and over again that my best progress has ALWAYS been when I just followed a program and stopped thinking about modifying it for my "special needs".
But now I'm unfortunately unable to find a program that seems to fit my goals for the next few months.

Since COVID started I stopped going to the gym and my brazilian jiu-jitsu school. Now I'd like to gradually go back (in my country the risk is not really high right know and we have a reasonable hygiene concept).
During the last five months I therefore looked into Kettlebell training that I could do at home and really started to love the flexibilty and effectiveness of it.
Still, going once or twice a week to the gym in order to keep my barbell compound exercises strong and also socialize a bit with my old training buddy would be great.

I'm a 27 year old man. 188cm (6'2") and weight around 80kg (176lbs). I consider myself an intermediate lifter.
Timeless simple should be possible by the end of next week. My barbell exercises were close to 1/2/3/4 (some slightly higher/lower) at the beginning of the year.
My goals are to reliably hit 3x5 100kg (220lbs) Bench and 140kg (310lbs) Squat. 1x200kg (440lbs) Deadlift would be great and for my Press I just want to press as much as possible.
I'm thinking of doing the following:

Monday:
Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu class
GTG Pull-ups

Tuesday:
Gym
- 5/3/1 Deadlift
- 5x5 Press
- some Row variants
- Facepulls

Wednesday:
Simple and Sinister workout

Thursday:
Simple and Sinister workout

Friday:
Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu class
GTG Pull-ups

Saturday:
Gym
- 5/3/1 Squats
- 5x5 Bench Presst
- some Row variants
- Facepulls

Sunday:
Rest


I'd do this until I hit (timed) simple three workouts in a row.
Then I'd would continue with Rite of Passage. Thus swapping one day at the gym with a additional Kettlebell session and change the remaining day at the gym as follows:
5/3/1 Squat, 5x5 Bench, 5/3/1 Deadlift.

Does this programming make sense? Or would you change it completely? Unfortunately my gym doesn't have good (or heavy) kettlebells therefore I'd need to split my barbell exercises from my kettlebell training.
The reason I stick to 5/3/1 for lower body and 5x5 for upper body is that I slighlty injured my shoulder by doing a heavy low rep bench press earlier this year. I don't think that low rep bench pressing is really worth the risk.
But I'd like to be able to go heavy in the squat/deadlift. Also I only have to look at a barbell to have my legs grow, while my upper body needs a lot more attention.

Thanks for any information/help you can provide.
 
I am in a similar situation. I start BJJ back up tomorrow. I am finally working towards timed simple and beyond since my gym with heavy kettlebells is open and relatively safe to go to (I only had a 24kg at home).

Have you ever looked in to easy strength type programs? That always worked really well for me for strength and recovery while still doing bjj.
 
I train BJJ too and my strength training has been primarily KB-based since I started, just given how hard heavy barbell training can be on my body while rolling hard 4x/week. But I'm 43 now, so that might have something to do with it. My training for the last 8+ weeks has been primarily barbell-based, and it's been a refreshing change of pace (while I'm not rolling, just doing solo drills). I'm doing an experimental Built Strong plan (see my IG post from last week, linked below).

My personal preference for strength training in tandem with BJJ is S&S, Q&D, and/or some Easy Strength with any modality (KB, BB, BW). My "go to" prior to lockdown had been Q&D with its focus on power production (with increased strength as a byproduct) along with some Easy Strength presses after 5-10 minutes of rest.

Once you hit S&S Simple, I would recommend trying Q&D for 6-12 weeks and seeing what you think - it's really pretty tailor-made for BJJ, but it does require a base level of strength AND skill to reap the benefits.

Once back on the mats "for real", I plan on experimenting with 32kg Q&D snatches , with a rotation of BB squats, presses, and deadlifts done Easy Strength style. Reps in the 1-5 range with a focus on doubles and triples, 80-95% 1RM, and lots of rest. Half the volume on hard weeks. Only 3 days/week total, since BJJ eats up all the other time (and to get good at BJJ, I need to do more BJJ).

(I feel like I always give this disclaimer, but I'm approaching 10 years in the StrongFirst system and know my body super well at this point - so your mileage may vary).
 
How long is bjj class, how much sparring is there, and how intense does it get? I think that's going to be the biggest determining factor. Right now I'm lifting hard 3x/week and doing JJ classes through Zoom 1-3x/week, but no sparring makes it all technique, visualization, and almost a recovery session. I think your rest and food will have to be spot on. For myself, the above plan would probably be too much. I always write similar stuff but I'm only able to hold to it for a week. Might just be me and low work capacity. I'm also a little older.

When I was still going to class, I would go Th and Sat. Th was about 40 min of technique and 20 min of sparring. Sat had maybe 10-15 min of sparring. That amount of sparring was enough to zap me and effect the whole week of training. I had one barbell day a week, Sunday, following a Gallagher protocol. Then I would do Timeless S&S 1-3x per week. I think for the heck of it I was doing really low intensity/volume BB Sn and Cl and J 1x/week because I wanted to learn them. I would frequently drop KB sessions because it was the easiest thing to ditch if I was tired from work or wanted to spend more time with my family.

Seemed to work pretty well (not based on any metric), but there was a lot of give and take. S&S progressed slowly. My barbell lifts kind of plateaued. The O-lifts were just for fun and to learn the basics so I didn't really progress anywhere. JJ was just JJ - I was learning.
 
My 2c, if your goals are to advance your bb lifts + improve bjj, i would drop S+S after getting to timeless simple. I think 2 rabbits are about the most a person should be chasing. I know a lot of people will say just chase 1, but mentally that is just hard for me to square so 2 is a nice compromise.
 
godjira1 said:
My 2c, if your goals are to advance your bb lifts + improve bjj, i would drop S+S after getting to timeless simple. I think 2 rabbits are about the most a person should be chasing. I know a lot of people will say just chase 1, but mentally that is just hard for me to square so 2 is a nice compromise.
Click to expand...

I can do 2 rabbits if they have high carry over.

In my case, Olympic weightlifting and KB ballistics.

But even then, I generally maintain one while progressing on the other, then rotate according to seasonality.
 
sreiche said:
My goals are to reliably hit 3x5 100kg (220lbs) Bench and 140kg (310lbs) Squat. 1x200kg (440lbs) Deadlift would be great and for my Press I
Click to expand...

Why does a BJJ fighter care much about getting good at the power lifts?

Does it make you better at BJJ?

At best, I would think, not very much, when compared to practicing BJJ more.
 
Interesting that there are a lot of threads lately about getting back in to BJJ.you can look up my previous posts for some suggestions.I was thinking about it a lot this weekend , I would say look up Steve Maxwell stuff for some good advice/ ideas.My experiences have been as follows-
Im 43 now and have been doing BJJ for 20 +
years for an average of 2-4 x a week( some years are better than others ,ha ha) my current schedule is BJJ 2 times a week and Muay Thai 1-2 a week( I trained 9 times last month martial arts)
-I cannot lift barbell weights and do BJJ ( Tried it before ,for me doesn’t work)
-Yoga daily ( 20-30 ) minutes has helped me tremendously and allowed me to keep training
-I tried to do S&S 5 days a week ( it was too much)
- I am currently doing S&S 3 times a week and we’ll see how that goes ....
After I hit simple I would like to try Q&D
-I’ve starting swimmimg once a week and find this to be very beneficial
I also work a somewhat physical job and mountain bike ( mellow) with my daughter in the evenings when I can
so that’s my 2 cents .
I say this with utmost humility and had have the honor/ privilege to work and train with some world class martial artist and they each seem to have their own routine that varies so go firgure....
 
Hi all, thanks for your feedback! This is really helpful to me.
After reading your arguments I decided to drop barbell exercises for now.
Because if I'm honest to myself these weight goals are just some arbitrary numbers I fixed some time ago.

I guess for now I'll continue with 2x/week BJJ and 3-4x S&S until I own simple. Then I plan to continue with ROP with BJJ on the variety days.
Some of you mentioned Q&D (I assume that abbreviates The Quick and the Dead?). I was under the impression that this plan is targeted to really advanced athletes.
In any case, I will put it on my reading list and probably try it after a block of ROP.

One last quick question: Should/can I add some Goblet Squats and/or GTG Pullups to the ROP variety days?

Off-Topic: Is there a way to fix that typo in the thread name?
 
I think goblet squats are a legitimate option to add on variety days. If you want to really focus on your press, I would say yes for the pull-ups as well, although you could do them on MWF with the presses as stated in the book, especially if you are spreading the ladders out through the day. Are you also planning on doing the heavy double cleans and TGUs on your variety days?
 
johnnydeftonesa said:
I think goblet squats are a legitimate option to add on variety days. If you want to really focus on your press, I would say yes for the pull-ups as well, although you could do them on MWF with the presses as stated in the book, especially if you are spreading the ladders out through the day. Are you also planning on doing the heavy double cleans and TGUs on your variety days?
Click to expand...
So my idea was to do the MWF with presses (as you said as it is stated in the book) and the BJJ morning classes on my variety days.
Then throughout the day GTG Pullups. And whenever I feel really motivated I could do a quick session in the evening where I add some Goblet Squats / Mobility work. And maybe some exercises like Pushups and TGUs.
But only to keep the technique and strength, not with the goal of improvements.
Since I only own 1x16,24,28,32kg KBs I won't t any double KB exercises.
 
Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
Back
Top Bottom