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Kettlebell RoP: Heavy swings on "Heavy day"?

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kraftkarlos

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I've been reading through, what seems to be, most threads on RoP but can't really find thoughts on my specific question.

The most common advice when people ask about making changes to the swing/snatch part of the program seems to be "go by the book". I've made my peace with that (I've been competing and writing powerlifting programs for 10+ years which made a dice roll hard to accept ?). But since the book isn't crystal clear on what kind of swings to use, I thought I'd post my question here.

Light day = snatches (pretty clear on that)
Medium day = Swings (1 handed or 2 handed?)
Heavy day = Swings (1 handed or 2 handed?)

So I'm keeping snatches on light day, dice roll and find a "light" rep interval (still learning snatches). I'm pretty sure I'll be doing 1H swings on medium day. Would 2H swings with a heavier bell (lower reps per set naturally) be a viable option for heavy day?

Thanks!
 
Post S&S those that go on to do, or redo, ROP comes across, what seems as, a conflict between how the swings should be performed and loaded.
The swings are to provide the conditioning for the snatch but offer a different model to that contained within S&S.
There are a lot of options....as the volume of presses increase you can dial back the swings, if recovery is an issue.
Given the simple to ROP route, it's a given that the 32 shouldn't be an issue. But it is for some. Was for me.
So 2 hand, rather than 1. Drop a bell size. Dial back the volume. Or as some do, have done is to do the swings S&S style on rest days.
What modification distracts from the programme, or maybe enhances it, is open ended. What works for you...or what do you need?
The programme is snatch and press, so manipulating swing variables are warranted v adjusting snatch and press variables.....so try a few options.
Next time I do rop I'm just going to stick with 1 bell: 24 with 2 hand swings, and do it as is.
If that helps!
 
Post S&S those that go on to do, or redo, ROP comes across, what seems as, a conflict between how the swings should be performed and loaded.
The swings are to provide the conditioning for the snatch but offer a different model to that contained within S&S.
There are a lot of options....as the volume of presses increase you can dial back the swings, if recovery is an issue.
Given the simple to ROP route, it's a given that the 32 shouldn't be an issue. But it is for some. Was for me.
So 2 hand, rather than 1. Drop a bell size. Dial back the volume. Or as some do, have done is to do the swings S&S style on rest days.
What modification distracts from the programme, or maybe enhances it, is open ended. What works for you...or what do you need?
The programme is snatch and press, so manipulating swing variables are warranted v adjusting snatch and press variables.....so try a few options.
Next time I do rop I'm just going to stick with 1 bell: 24 with 2 hand swings, and do it as is.
If that helps!

Hmm. Sorry, kind of confusing.
 
My interpretation of ROP “by the book”:

Heavy day: same bell as presses. Perform as many reps in the time dictates by the dice roll. What I did Was one arm swing, 8 reps left, 8 reps right, every minute on the minute.

Medium Day: same bell as presses. 75% of the reps from heavy day. What I did: one arm swings 5 reps left, 5 reps right. EMOM for as long as dictated by dice roll.

Light Day: same bell as presses. Light volume. What I did: 4 reps left, 4 reps right. EMOM as long as dictated by dice roll.

everyone has their own interpretation and that is why you will not find clear, direct advice. ROP classifies HEAVY for the presses and the swing in terms of volume, not weight. However, you most certainly choose to go with a heavier bell on heavy days, if that is your decision.
 
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I've been reading through, what seems to be, most threads on RoP but can't really find thoughts on my specific question.

The most common advice when people ask about making changes to the swing/snatch part of the program seems to be "go by the book". I've made my peace with that (I've been competing and writing powerlifting programs for 10+ years which made a dice roll hard to accept ?). But since the book isn't crystal clear on what kind of swings to use, I thought I'd post my question here.

Light day = snatches (pretty clear on that)
Medium day = Swings (1 handed or 2 handed?)
Heavy day = Swings (1 handed or 2 handed?)

So I'm keeping snatches on light day, dice roll and find a "light" rep interval (still learning snatches). I'm pretty sure I'll be doing 1H swings on medium day. Would 2H swings with a heavier bell (lower reps per set naturally) be a viable option for heavy day?

Thanks!

The thing to consider is that SSST was one of the goals of ROP. The book isn't totally clear on the particular type of swing, but it is clear that the swings are there to support your snatching.

With this in mind, I would think that using 1-hand swings with a bell heavier than your snatch bell would provide the most carryover to your snatches. 2-hand swings are great and it might be beneficial to work some in here and there, but I would think you'd want a majority of those swings to be heavier, 1-hand swings.

For instance, a gentleman, who is working on 24kg snatches, could do 1-hand swings with 32kg on medium and heavy days. If this gentleman is dragging his butt, or has tore up hands, he could do 2-hand swings with the 32kg on that particular day. Or, once in a while, do some heavier 2-hand swings with a 40kg bell or bigger.

Anyway, this is how I would approach it. Good Luck!
 
Keep it simple. Just do the work.

Heavy Day
Do 2 hand swings balls out with the heaviest bell you can handle with good form at 85-90 %

Medium Day
Do 2 hand swings at 70% with same bell.

For MOST people, it's probably a 32 kg bell.

Easy Day
Do Snatches at 50% with a 24.

I personally find 2 hand swings harder on the grip than 1 hand because the arms don't have as much time to rest. Just a personal preference.

Everything can be tweaked, do reps per minute to the top of each minute.

Say you roll a 10 on heavy day. Shoot for 25 swings each minute, rest to the top. That would be 250 swings.
For Medium day, aim for 18 swings per minute
Snatches, 5 on each side per minute, if you feel good crank it up to 6 or 7.
 
Hmm. Sorry, kind of confusing.

Sorry!
As others have said, there are different interpretations.
This is borne from being embedded with S&S defined swings and moving to a different programme, where the swings are the same but different!
Going the route, as said, S&S to ROP, the question about swings comes up a lot.
A poor attempt on my part in trying to summarise a lot of the discussion points raised over threads and my own experiences, is due largely because of the many options open to you.
Going the one arm option makes sense, given the carry over to snatch prep. However, as the press volume ramps up, 2 handed here maybe an alternative.
As said, there is something to just using 1 bell for the lot and taking away the load variable.
You mention powerlifting...have you done S&S to simple?
You may well have some established pressing strength, so your recovery from press volume may not be an issue, in which case heavier swings may suit you.
For me, and other roppers, the press volume is the weak link. Doing heavy swings on heavy days can be a bit too much and hence to modify swings rather than presses.
Either way, it all works.
 
My interpretation of ROP “by the book”:

Heavy day: same bell as presses. Perform as many reps in the time dictates by the dice roll. What I did Was one arm swing, 8 reps left, 8 reps right, every minute on the minute.

Medium Day: same bell as presses. 75% of the reps from heavy day. What I did: one arm swings 5 reps left, 5 reps right. EMOM for as long as dictated by dice roll.

Light Day: same bell as presses. Light volume. What I did: 4 reps left, 4 reps right. EMOM as long as dictated by dice roll.

everyone has their own interpretation and that is why you will not find clear, direct advice. ROP classifies HEAVY for the presses and the swing in terms of volume, not weight. However, you most certainly choose to go with a heavier bell on heavy days, if that is your decision.

That was what my gut told me. Probably something like that in my final plan.
 
The thing to consider is that SSST was one of the goals of ROP. The book isn't totally clear on the particular type of swing, but it is clear that the swings are there to support your snatching.

With this in mind, I would think that using 1-hand swings with a bell heavier than your snatch bell would provide the most carryover to your snatches. 2-hand swings are great and it might be beneficial to work some in here and there, but I would think you'd want a majority of those swings to be heavier, 1-hand swings.

For instance, a gentleman, who is working on 24kg snatches, could do 1-hand swings with 32kg on medium and heavy days. If this gentleman is dragging his butt, or has tore up hands, he could do 2-hand swings with the 32kg on that particular day. Or, once in a while, do some heavier 2-hand swings with a 40kg bell or bigger.

Anyway, this is how I would approach it. Good Luck!

Seems very reasonable. And since I want to improve my snatch it will most definitely be something like that.
 
Keep it simple. Just do the work.

Heavy Day
Do 2 hand swings balls out with the heaviest bell you can handle with good form at 85-90 %

Medium Day
Do 2 hand swings at 70% with same bell.

For MOST people, it's probably a 32 kg bell.

Easy Day
Do Snatches at 50% with a 24.

I personally find 2 hand swings harder on the grip than 1 hand because the arms don't have as much time to rest. Just a personal preference.

Everything can be tweaked, do reps per minute to the top of each minute.

Say you roll a 10 on heavy day. Shoot for 25 swings each minute, rest to the top. That would be 250 swings.
For Medium day, aim for 18 swings per minute
Snatches, 5 on each side per minute, if you feel good crank it up to 6 or 7.

That would be 2H swings on all three days?
 
Sorry!
As others have said, there are different interpretations.
This is borne from being embedded with S&S defined swings and moving to a different programme, where the swings are the same but different!
Going the route, as said, S&S to ROP, the question about swings comes up a lot.
A poor attempt on my part in trying to summarise a lot of the discussion points raised over threads and my own experiences, is due largely because of the many options open to you.
Going the one arm option makes sense, given the carry over to snatch prep. However, as the press volume ramps up, 2 handed here maybe an alternative.
As said, there is something to just using 1 bell for the lot and taking away the load variable.
You mention powerlifting...have you done S&S to simple?
You may well have some established pressing strength, so your recovery from press volume may not be an issue, in which case heavier swings may suit you.
For me, and other roppers, the press volume is the weak link. Doing heavy swings on heavy days can be a bit too much and hence to modify swings rather than presses.
Either way, it all works.

I see, no worries. I've been doing S&S with the 32 for quite a while now and wanted to move on. It's obvious that my strength lies in the grind (most likely because of all the powerlifting) and my weaknesses are KB specific quick movements. But I realize the difference between S&S and RoP, no problem there.
 
As I am doing multiple Cycles of RoP in a row, I didn't want to burn out with the all out swings sessions.

I'm doing heavy day work to rest 1:1 = 10 one-arm swings with the same bell as the presses. 10 one-arm swings including picking up and setting down take me 18 seconds. so 18 sec on then 18 sec of.

So when I roll 2x 6, I'll do 12 x 60s = 720s. 720 : 36 (work and rest) is 20 rounds of 10 One-arm Swings.
Medium day is 18:36 (1:2) and is the same formula: 12 x 60s = 720s. 720 : 54 (work and rest) = 13,3 14 rounds
Easy day is 22:106 (1:3) 12 x 60s = 720s. 720 : 88 (work and rest) 8 rounds of snachtes.

This way I'll survive and look forward towards my next session
 
If the swing is used primarily as an accessory to snatches within ROP, then, actually, looking at the below, heavy two hand swings could be the way to go:

 
Then you're missing out on the fun of seeing what works.
Kettlebells are way more fun than 5 getups on each side and 100 1 hand swings.

+1

Kettlebell sport isn't exactly a great spectator sport, but I can't imagine how much more boring it would be if they weren't snatching and jerking.
 
+1

Kettlebell sport isn't exactly a great spectator sport, but I can't imagine how much more boring it would be if they weren't snatching and jerking.

Full disclosure time: I've been very tempted to give Red Zone a try, even though I'm not close to Timeless Simple yet. The only thing that stops me is I doubt my shoulders and elbows would stand up to 150 reps of Military Press each week.
 
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