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Barbell Pavel's Go To Approach for Strength?

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TheWolf

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I have been reading Pavel's materials for a few weeks now and have started to apply it last week. However, I am confused as to what he actually determines is the best approach to strength alone. I have heard/read the following via podcasts with him on it, books of his, or articles featuring him, and the approach seems different in each one--or I am ignorantly missing the point.

In strength training, I am targeting the Bench Press and the Deadlift.

The methods I've come across:
- 2x 5 using 70-85% 1RM, five days a week, for weeks and weeks until the weight is fairly easy, then taking a decent jump up.
- Variable method which I have come to understand is similar to the above but you change the amount of reps per set some days, and go very heavy some days?
- StrongFirst's 5x 5, three days a week.
- Either of three programs of progression in PTTP.
- 5, 3, 1.

I know that some of these concepts were outlined by him at different times--some years apart--so his experience with them may or may not have changed his views. I am looking to seriously increase my Bench and Deadlift. FYI, I am a Novice-Intermediate with Heavy Lifts/Strength-focuses fitness, and an Intermediate with Conditioning-type fitness.

Out of them all, what method is Pavel stating is the best for strength only?
 
I don't think there's a right answer to that. Pavel recommends many different training protocols for different reasons, not because one is better than the others. Can you dedicate time every day of the week, or need to limit it to 3 days per week? What are your activities and lifestyle like away from your strength work? Sleep? Nutrition? What's your sport, or are you a competitive deadlifter/bench presser?

There are many protocols for strength, and depending on many factors some may work better for you than others. I think one of the main themes surrounding a lot of Pavel's work (not all), is to leave the gym feeling better than you entered while still improving your strength. It may not be the absolute best way to add strength as quick as possible, but unless your sport is strength it makes the rest of your life better.
 
Great question.

I don't know the answer, either what Pavel would say is the best for strength, nor what is actually the best for strength (which I would assume would be the same).

I would say that any of these CAN be the best FOR YOU. Most importantly, do a program that you can do consistently, challenge yourself adequately with the load, overcome obstacles to make progress, and know when to change your approach and/or take a deload break when progress stalls. Also you would probably want to switch your focus between strength and hypertrophy periodically if your goal is to keep increasing. That, and be a student of strength! Always be learning. Seems like you're on the right track, there.

Generally speaking, the simpler programming is best for beginners up to some level of intermediate. The variable methods are great for advanced. But the opposite can work also.

I think, if I was in your place as a Novice-Intermediate, a goal of strength, and wanting to work on Bench and Deadlift, I would either do 5x5 (Stronglifts, Strongfirst's) or 3 days/week (or 3x5 as with Greyskull or Starting Strength) for several months, then get a custom Plan Strong Plan to go forward from there.

Here's some motivation for you to play the long game... This guy was already super strong in the first video -- but then increased his deadlift over the next 9 years to pull an IPL record of 850 lbs.

 
I have been reading Pavel's materials for a few weeks now and have started to apply it last week. However, I am confused as to what he actually determines is the best approach to strength alone. I have heard/read the following via podcasts with him on it, books of his, or articles featuring him, and the approach seems different in each one--or I am ignorantly missing the point.

In strength training, I am targeting the Bench Press and the Deadlift.

The methods I've come across:
- 2x 5 using 70-85% 1RM, five days a week, for weeks and weeks until the weight is fairly easy, then taking a decent jump up.
- Variable method which I have come to understand is similar to the above but you change the amount of reps per set some days, and go very heavy some days?
- StrongFirst's 5x 5, three days a week.
- Either of three programs of progression in PTTP.
- 5, 3, 1.

I know that some of these concepts were outlined by him at different times--some years apart--so his experience with them may or may not have changed his views. I am looking to seriously increase my Bench and Deadlift. FYI, I am a Novice-Intermediate with Heavy Lifts/Strength-focuses fitness, and an Intermediate with Conditioning-type fitness.

Out of them all, what method is Pavel stating is the best for strength only?
Of course it depends on your definition of strength. Apparently, sets of 3 and even singles build strength quicker, but with less stable gains. Sets of 5 build more muscle alongside it.

When in doubt, try the simplest approach first and save the more complex or specialized ones for later. And when in doubt try the one that attracts you the most. The best program is the one that you enjoy and actually do, and that allows you to train consistently.

With that in mind I would opt for PTTP, possibly even with the sets of three variation from Easy Strength (Steve Bacchari version).

But more importantly the general principles are Continuity of the Training Process, Wave the Load, and Specialized Variety.
Wave the weights somewhere in the 70-90%1RM range, take enough rest between sets, train consistently and try some specialized variety (e.g., different DL styles as shown in PTTP).
 
Naked Warrior is all about strength gains. Supplement your DL and BP with NW in GTG fashion.
 
If I had to guess, I’d say because neurological adaptations can only get you so far. Sooner or later, some degree of hypertrophy will be needed to keep progressing.

1. I would like to, from a philosophical point of view, question whether putting up bigger numbers at a larger bodyweight is better than putting up the best numbers you can by improving your skill. I think we all look at way, way, way too many Internet pictures and superhero movies.

And I very much disagree that one cannot continue to improve one's skill throughout the course of a lifetime.

2. I find meaning in RDC's numbers, see Home and look at his best lifts in competition. When he went from 148 to 165, his numbers went up a lot. I don't know how much of that can be attributed to hypertrophy but those are substantial gains and, as such, refute my approach. But when he went from 165 to 181, his numbers basically went up by the amount of weight he gained and nothing more.

-S-
 
Why less stable gains?

-S-
See Q&D chapter "Fast 10s" for an in depth explanation.

According to Pavel, singles and double build strength faster, but "these gains are unstable and not supported by muscle growth" (similar to @Alan Mackey's hypothesis). Sets of five, however, are supposed to be a happy middle ground between pure neural strength training and hypertrophy training, delivering a bit slower strength gains, but continuing to do so even after longer periods and being accompanied by hypertrophy gains.

But if you are training regularly anyway and getting some higher rep ranges from KB ballistics, that might not matter much. The "The Quick and the Deadlift" plan is a great example of this.

And then you might even prefer sets of three if you don't want to build additional mucle (for example being a grappler).

But I am not speaking from experience here - only passing along Pavel's message from Q&D and Easy Strength.
 
Great question.

I don't know the answer, either what Pavel would say is the best for strength, nor what is actually the best for strength (which I would assume would be the same).

I would say that any of these CAN be the best FOR YOU. Most importantly, do a program that you can do consistently, challenge yourself adequately with the load, overcome obstacles to make progress, and know when to change your approach and/or take a deload break when progress stalls. Also you would probably want to switch your focus between strength and hypertrophy periodically if your goal is to keep increasing. That, and be a student of strength! Always be learning. Seems like you're on the right track, there.

Generally speaking, the simpler programming is best for beginners up to some level of intermediate. The variable methods are great for advanced. But the opposite can work also.

I think, if I was in your place as a Novice-Intermediate, a goal of strength, and wanting to work on Bench and Deadlift, I would either do 5x5 (Stronglifts, Strongfirst's) or 3 days/week (or 3x5 as with Greyskull or Starting Strength) for several months, then get a custom Plan Strong Plan to go forward from there.

Here's some motivation for you to play the long game... This guy was already super strong in the first video -- but then increased his deadlift over the next 9 years to pull an IPL record of 850 lbs.


I just watched that mini documentary on Bryce. Loving the Calgary Barbell content!
 
According to Pavel, singles and double build strength faster, but "these gains are unstable and not supported by muscle growth
I think he simplifies it some... CNS can be easily overtrained and I guess it dissipates quickly if not training. Thus, it's easy to mess up, whereas hypertrophy results don't melt quite so quickly. This is my gut feeling. There are professionals on this site who may say something else.
 
I've always wanted a real program maximum from Pavel. If he had to plan a program for a young lifter with all the time and means in the world and nothing but absolute strength on his mind, like say in the powerlifts, how would he plan it. I'm afraid I'll never see it, and I don't know why.

Or does it boil down to Reload and Plan Strong? Still, I'd like to see both in the same, holistic book, comparing them and their use in different contexts.
 
I think he simplifies it some... CNS can be easily overtrained and I guess it dissipates quickly if not training. Thus, it's easy to mess up, whereas hypertrophy results don't melt quite so quickly. This is my gut feeling. There are professionals on this site who may say something else.
I agree, and there is also the matter of ballistics and grinds and how they respond to various training schemes.

-S-
 
Or does it boil down to Reload and Plan Strong?
Bingo.
My guess is all pavel might need is plan strong to program for strength. But, I hypothesize that periodically a cycle that resembles the bear program or reload may be taken to focus on those attributes. Interestingly the reload cycles may be taken back to back, but it's discouraged slightly in the book due to its taxing nature.

Reload cycles could be taken periodically to encourage limit strength
Bear program could be used periodically to encourage hypertrophy
Plan strong plans would be my guess as mainstay of cycled work and serve as a swiss army knife to accommodate many training situations.

Plan strong,
Russian bear,
plan strong,
reload,
plan strong,

Repeat.

And my understanding is that plan strong has many different templates to drive each cycle differently, as needed.
 
If there was ONE single ultimate absolute strength program that worked for everyone at every time…..we’d all be out of stuff to talk about….

Whenever I’m trying to solve a puzzle, I think of Hannibal Lecter in Silence of the Lambs telling Klarise…read Marcus Aurelius First Principles….simplicity.

When it boils down to the barbell, max strength for me basically means one lift. The deadlift. I think Pavel might agree.

If you are content with this, then it becomes simple. What’s the best way to improve your deadlift (insert your desired lift/skill).

On numerous occasions, Pavel has stated the best way to improve a lift is to practice it often ie GTG. However…you may run into issues if this is not done correctly. These imclude

1) Burnout from too much intensity
2)poor movement development of technique is not monitored and corrected
3) wavy strength gains
4) uneven muscular/strength development
5)strength realized in your pet lift but not in other lifts

I believe Pavel’s stance will remain indefinitely, hence PTTP, Naked Warrior, that tension and practice are the keys to max strength. Of course…we can’t ignore the American system of training a lift once a week. Many champions have trained quite infrequently and made substantial gains.

We have Sheiko and Westside on both sides of the spectrum. However, it is forgotten that they both have common roots. Ultra specificity vs variety. Then frequency is thrown in the mix. Louie has basically stated unless you have the perfect leverages for a lift, you’re going to need accessory lifts.

Accessory lifts—the secret weapon to GTG

I think where most people screw up is not getting the basics down…ie not paying attention to the minor details. Doing the same thing day in day out is akin to the mantra “Do what you always do, get what you’ve always got.” So to get better at benching you must bench but if you bench too much your bench will not move. Dilemma.

The only way to overcome this is with variety but…not the way people think.

We all have worked (presumably) a job with a pretty predictable day in day out expectation. However, as drab as some jobs may be, no day is exactly the same. The same is with training. I’m convinced it is impossible to perform a lift with ? precision all the time. This is where variety comes in

However, this must be done without changing too much of the lift you wish to improve. Surface features for example include-speed, stance, grip, implement used, etc. The key is to work on the things you need.

For example, I found my deadlift basically thrives on my setup and start. I’ve practiced just the start of the dead, shadow deadlifting (basically preparing for a deadlift with no bar), and hover deadlifts. These require less weights yet allow constant practice of the technique I need to develop. Same but different. This allows me to practice frequently.

Specialization requires you to channel all your energy into one thing. Anything else is just distraction. Assistance lifts are useful if they add to this goal. If you’re doing good mornings to up your deadlifts, you’d better be sure the same groove is being greased. Otherwise, just learn to do the lift in the most optimal way possible.
 
You have to understand that these programs are designed to get maximum gains for the larger part of the bell curve. Sure they'll deliver excellent gains for the majority but some people just don't slot into that curve . Some people have other factors that need to be figured into the equation that can impede their progress, like people people who are living under undue duress (shift workers or people who are living in a stressful situation)..
There's no shame in taking an extra day off if you're still sore or you feel like you haven't recovered properly from your last training session . It's much better to take the odd day off training and stay in the game long term than it is to ignore what your body is telling you and just blindly follow a program, sometimes it's just much more beneficial to take a day off and go for a walk instead.
 
I think he simplifies it some... CNS can be easily overtrained and I guess it dissipates quickly if not training. Thus, it's easy to mess up, whereas hypertrophy results don't melt quite so quickly. This is my gut feeling. There are professionals on this site who may say something else.
Yeah in Easy Strength he talks about how heavy singles can be too taxing.

On the flip side, a cluster singles appraoch can be easier to recover from - and might allow more heavy volume overall (similar to A+A). Harald Motz has used them this way, based on the timing from Q&D and some articles by Chris Thibaudeau. And Pavel also recommends plans with singles, such as Justa's Singles, or Vodka and Pickles (combined with KB ballistics).
 
Doing the same thing day in day out is akin to the mantra “Do what you always do, get what you’ve always got.” So to get better at benching you must bench but if you bench too much your bench will not move. Dilemma.
So what you're saying is that we have to confuse the muscle, right? ;)






Just kidding.
I think where most people screw up is not getting the basics down…ie not paying attention to the minor details.
Yes yes yes. I catch myself making this mistake, and when I coached it was one of the number 1 things (IMO) that held people back from the gains they wanted.
 
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