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Kettlebell Are swings enough to maintain lower body strength and explosiveness?

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Vapidtm

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For basketball? I’ve read that the swing is a full body compound exercise. Are heavy swings enough to keep my lower body strong and explosive for sports, or should I add in a squat pattern since only swings will neglect the quads and squat pattern? I know I can just do both, but curious to know if only swings would be good enough.
Also, do swings help assist/improve your squat strength? Just want to know.
 
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Would definitely add some other moves for your jumping abolity from time to time.
Swings are great for numerous reasons, but will rarely challenge your legs to the max, as other muscle groups (including your grip strength) will constitute limiting factors. I have not trained barbell squats for years/decades, but the carryover from swings to my pistol squat performance is very limited in my experience.
 
Hello,

Overspeed eccentric may help your jumping abilities:

I agree with @Pantrolyx you'd gain from adding other movement pattern (squat). You can pick up the variation you want: pistol, gobblet, front, etc... Doing only squats or only swings could lead to muscle imbalances (quads vs hamstrings) on the long term. From a health perspective, this would be the option I'd chose.

Burpees in relatively low volume, following a S&S swing pattern for instance, would work as well.

To get "strong", it is admitted that there are two options:
- lifting heavy and slow / normal pace
- lifting fast and relatively light

Obviously, the 2nd option will not max out your potential. Swings fall into this category, same for snatches, C&J.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Also, do swings help assist/improve your squat strength? Just want to know.

I barbell squat very frequently (usually 3 times a week, minimum 2) because it's the primary strength lift for the sport of weightlifting.

I haven't noticed any carry-over between swings and the squats styles used in weightlifting, i.e. front squats and high bar back squats.

Maybe there is more carry-over with low bar squats.
 
For basketball?
Probably not, but if you are playing basketball a lot, young and healthy, then it might be.
I’ve read that the swing is a full body compound exercise.
It is, but there are areas that aren't going to be sufficiently challenged to be considered a balanced S&C program for basketball (or most others sports)
Are heavy swings enough to keep my lower body strong and explosive for sports, or should I add in a squat pattern since only swings will neglect the quads and squat pattern?
Again, it might be enough, but it depends on individual goals and needs.
I know I can just do both, but curious to know if only swings would be good enough.
Also, do swings help assist/improve your squat strength? Just want to know.
No. Unless your squat is really weak to begin with, swings aren't going to do much (if anything) for your squat.
 
For basketball? I’ve read that the swing is a full body compound exercise. Are heavy swings enough to keep my lower body strong and explosive for sports, or should I add in a squat pattern since only swings will neglect the quads and squat pattern? I know I can just do both, but curious to know if only swings would be good enough.
Also, do swings help assist/improve your squat strength? Just want to know.
For basketball? No.

Jumping in basketball is usually not a straight hinge pattern vertical jump. It's jumping off one foot on the run, a quick two foot bounce off the floor off a jump stop, or jumping "in a phone booth" (remember those?) where you are in traffic with other players around you or leaning on you so you can't actually wind up and hinge. You need to get off the floor quickly with minimal preparation. If you have to wind up, the other guy already has the rebound or has gotten the shot off. If you need to hinge with the ball before going up with a shot in traffic, you give up your vertical space and are going to get roofed.

Periods of training the hinge pattern too exclusively, whether it was DLs or KB ballistics, without enough squat patterning, left me less able to maintain a low defensive stance and less able to jump quickly (and, yes, that means I DON'T think KB ballistics have a direct carryover to in-game leaping ability). And those things came back quickly when I made sure to include squatting in the mix. I don't necessarily think absolute squatting strength is all that important for basketball (or really any kind of absolute strength above a certain threshold which would be considered relatively low for iron sports). Double KB front squats are plenty of load and, IMO, are one of the biggest bang for the buck drills for basketball.

Another drill that I've found has a lot of carryover to basketball is the push press, because the quick dip and explosion is so similar to a lot of jumping in basketball. Here also, I think that the absolute load is not as important as the quickness of the dip and drive (and really, the shallower the better), and finishing the drive with full extension. A load that can be launched ballistically to lockout without a second dip or even any pressout, is plenty. IMO, the push press is much more applicable to basketball than the jerk, because the second dip to get under the weight is pretty much the opposite of any pattern that is useful for basketball.

That doesn't mean hinge-pattern drills are bad for basketball. KB hinge ballistics are great for overall conditioning, I've also found great carryover to basketball from the barbell DL. But not because I have to pick up heavy things off the floor on a basketball court, and not because of any noticeable effect on vertical jumping or "explosiveness."

What I got out of the DL were the generalized skills of rooting, bracing, and wedging, which most carryover to being able get and hold position, move other players off of a position, and withstand contact, especially while staying on balance and not having to lean my bodyweight on opponents, being more of an "immovable object," being able push other players around and not get get pushed around by them.

Two things that I've found really help my agility and being light on my feet for basketball are jumping rope at a very fast touch-and-go cadence and Jump Stretch band shuffle drills.

Jumping rope does teach you to be light on your feet and have a quick bounce off the ground. So you want to keep it very fast-paced, and try to spend as little time in contact with the ground as possible.

For the shuffle drills, use standard Jump Stretch style resistance bands. The "light" bands work well, but you can progress to heavier. However, IMO "mini" bands are too light for this. Depending on the space you have, link at least two (at minimum) or three or four (if you have lots of space) bands together and anchor one end to a fixed point such as a fence post, basket support, bleacher railing or whatever is available. Step into the last band and loop it around your hips. Then just shuffle away from the anchor point to stretch the band as far as you can go, and then shuffle back toward the anchor point. You can do this forwards, backwards, laterally, and at various angles.

You have to be quick and strong with your shuffle to avoid being pulled off balance. But the real magic with the shuffle drills is on the "negative" where the band tension is pulling you toward the anchor point. It really helps with quick deceleration. When you first start doing these, practice moving slower and/or not shuffling as far away from the anchor to reduce the maximum force and get used to the effect of the band tension. Then you can speed it up as much as you can.

Finally, I think a lot of the Knees Over Toes Guy type stuff has a lot of application to basketball in terms of resiliency and injury prevention.

Probably not, but if you are playing basketball a lot, young and healthy, then it might be.
I want to highlight this comment because I do think the best conditioning for basketball is playing lots of basketball. Physically, you get a ton of plyometric-type activity in game action and basketball-specific drills, so I think it is redundant and often counterproductive to add on a bunch of separate plyometrics or targeted vertical jump training. If you want to be good at basketball, the highest return on investment is going to be game experience and skills practice, compared to off court training. An ounce of skill, anticipation, and/or basketball IQ is worth a pound of athleticism.
 
IMO, the push press is much more applicable to basketball than the jerk, because the second dip to get under the weight is pretty much the opposite of any pattern that is useful for basketball.
Very interesting points in your post, especially this one. I think a shot fake, especially below the rim, might be an exception, being closer to a jerk.

Anyway, you seem to focus on SPP1, sports specific preparation.

I think for GPP, general physical preparation, the swing is covers a lot of ground, especially the one arm swing.
know I can just do both, but curious to know if only swings would be good enough.
Pavel usually focuses his plans around a hinge pattern, but keeps the squatting pattern in the warmup via Goblet Squats.

I think that both S&S and the Kettlebells StrongFirst plans would be great (also with the LCCJ), even when deemphasizing the TGU. Of course, there are other options.
 
Anyway, you seem to focus on SPP1, sports specific preparation.
I'd consider anything you do with a KB in your hand to be more GPP than SPP for basketball. On court drills are what I would consider to be SPP.

Very interesting points in your post, especially this one. I think a shot fake, especially below the rim, might be an exception, being closer to a jerk.
A shot fake is a basketball skill that requires a very low level of any athletic quality. In fact, a shot fake can be too quick. Players like Al Jefferson and Joel Embiid have made a living on exaggeratedly slow shot fakes. You don't need to do anything with kettlebells to be better at shot fakes.
 
Are heavy swings enough to keep my lower body strong and explosive for sports, or should I add in a squat pattern since only swings will neglect the quads and squat pattern?

Kettlebell Swings

Kettlebells Swings develop Power and/or Speed; dependent on the load used. More on that in a minute.

While some Strength is achieved with Kettebell Swings, there are other Movements that are more effective in for Strength Development.

First. let's look at...

Power and Speed Training Movement

1) Olympic Movements


Olympic Movents such as High Pulls, Power Cleans, Power Snatches, and Jerks produce some of the Highest Power Outputs, perhaps the most.

Olympic Power Output Measurements
A Review of Power Output Studies of Olympic and Powerlifting: Methodology, Performance, Prediction and Evaluation Test"
During Entire Snatch or Clean Pull Movements: Dr John Garhammer

During Entire Snatch or Clean Pull Movements:
34.3 w/kg Men
21.8 w/kg Women

Second Pulls:
52.6 w/kg Men
39.2 w/kg Women

"With this basic breakdown in mind, the power output comparisons of 100-kilo male lifter in the clean, second pull and deadlift would be as follows."

Clean------------3430 watts
Second Pull----5260 watts
Deadlift--------1200 watts

"...The power output of clean pulls is 2.85 time greater than a deadlift. Second pulls are even higher with power outputs 4.38 times larger than deadlifts. Garhammer's research showed that even when dropping the training poundage down to lower percentages for Olympic pulls and deadlifts, outputs for Olympic pulls were still almost twice as great."
Source: No Deadlift Deadlift Program

The same applies to Squat Jump with Ligher Loads. Some Power is developed but not to the same extent as Power Movements, noted in Trap Bar Jumps below.

Olympic Power Training Loads

Power is optimally developed in Olympic Movements with loades of 70-80% of 1 Repetition Max.

2) Trap Bar Jumps

Trap Bar Jumps have been shown to produce similar Power Output/Development to Olympic Pulls.

A Trap Bar Jump essentially is a modified Olympic Pull. Less Technique is required, which minimizes the Learning Curve.

For those who don't have access to a Trap Bar, Dumbbell Jumps will elicit the same Training Response.

Trap Bar Jump Squat Training Load

Effect of Load Positioning on the Kinematics and Kinetics of Weighted Vertical Jumps

Swinton, Paul A.; Stewart, Arthur D.; Lloyd, Ray; More
Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research. 26(4):906-913, April 2012.

",,,When jumps were performed with the hexagonal barbell, significantly greater peak power was produced with an external resistance of 20% 1RM..."

HBJS (High Bar Jump Squat) condition produced superior power outputs to the BBJS (BarBell Jump Squat) condition with the same load.

Peak Power Output

HBJS 20% 5783.40


HBJS meaing performing High Trap Bar Jump Squats with the Higher Handles on a Trap Bar that has Low and High Bar Handles.

3) Kettlebell Swings

Research show that Kettlebell Swing produce Power Outputs similar to Olympic Movements and Trap Bar Jumps; providing the right load is used.

The article Pet posted states that around a minium of 30% of an individual Body Weight.

Dr Bret Contreras' determined the upper end of Power Kettlebell Swing needs to be with loads as high as a individual's body weight.

Contreras' Power Output measurement are listed below.

StyleLoad (lbs)Peak Vertical Force (N)Peak Horizontal Force (N)
Squat Style702,170-2,349166-182
Squat Style1402,431-2,444278-353
Hip Hinge Style701,935-2,140340-402
Hip Hinge Style1402,325-2,550499-520

The Squat Style Swing means sitting back into the movement. Doing so places more of the Workload and Power Development on the Quads and Glutes.

Ballistic Movements

Olympic Pulls and Trap Bar Jumps are Ballistic Movements. Ballitic meaning a body or object goes airborne.

Going Ballistic, airborne, in a Movement ensure Power is Developed through the Entire Range of the Movement.

Traditional Kettlebells Swing are Quazi-Ballistic. That because the Kettlebell is allowed to float at the top end of the Movement.

Allowing the Kettlebell to float limits the Range of Power Development.

For Power Development to be optimally achieved in the Full Range of a Kettlebell Swing...

1) Heavy Kettlebell Swings

When peforming a Heavy Kettlebell Swing greater force is applied through;ut the Swing.

If the Bell is too light, the Bell is allowed to float more; the Muscle Contration is not maintained to the end of the movement.

2) Banded Kettlebell Swings



Attaching a Band to the Kettlebell ensures the Muscle Contraction is maintained throughout the Swing, Power is Develope in a Greater Range of the Movent.

3) Kettlebell Swing Jumps

Completing a Kettlebell Swing with a Hop/Jump at the end of the Range of The Movement ensure Power is Developed through the Full Range of the Movement.

Now let's look at...

The Foundation of Power

The Foundation of Power is built on Maximum Strength, such as Squats.

Research shows that with Novice Lifters, initially an Increase In Maxium Strength produces an Increase In Power.

With Advanced Lifters, Power is Optimally Developed when Maxium Strength and Power are performed in a Conjunct Training Program.

An Examle

1) Monday: Speed/Power Training

2) Wednesday: Maximum Strength Training

do swings help assist/improve your squat strength?

Swing For Squat

Kettlebell Swing will improve Squat Strength to a limited degree.

If the objective is to increase Squat Power and Strength, the movement that will be most specific to eliciting that effect is the Squat Hinge Swings.

The Squat Hinge Style is performed by sitting down and back into the Kettlebell Swing.

To reiterate, the Squat Hinge Style places the Workload primarily on the Quads and Glutes.

Summary

1) Maximum Strength Training is the Foudation of Power Development.


As Dr Fred Hatfield said, "You can't shoot a canon from a canoe."

Increasing Maximum Leg Strength provides The Foundation to launch a Power and/or Speed Movement from.

2) Maximizing Power

The key to Maximally Developing Power requires the Force Production must be maintained from the Beginning of it to the End of it.

Ensuring Full Range Power is Developed is achieve with one of the methods above.
 
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Is kettlebell the best tool to target the lower body. Is it the best in developing power and strength?
I would say - no, probably squat and power clean would be better (that is of course if you accept the basis that you can get faster and it is not genetic).
But - do you need the best? Kettlebell is a great tool to give you enough (I think), plus cardio, tension-relaxation, balance, and training with a lighter load.
If you don't bodybuild, powerlift or compete in olympic lifting - what's the problem.
And if you are bodybuilding, chanses are you don't squat as well.
 
Is kettlebell the best tool to target the lower body. Is it the best in developing power and strength?
I would say - no, probably squat and power clean would be better
Strength Training

To reiterate, The Foundation of Power is built on Strength.

Thus, Heavy Squat need to be part of a well written/excuted program at some point.

As in the previous post, ...

Kettlebell Swings For Power

One of the benefits produced is an increase in Power; providing a Power Kettlebell Swing Program is well written and executed.

The data posted above, provides the amount of Power Output that Kettlebells produce; which rivals, Olympic Movements

Leaning Curve

One of the main advantages of Kettlebell Swings and Trap Bar Jumps, is there is a shorter Learning Curve; comparative to an Olympic Movement.
And if you are bodybuilding, chanses are you don't squat as well.
Bodybuilders

Squats for the majority of Bodybuilder are a "Staple Exercise".

Most Bodybuilders are Squat well. Since their emphasis is on Hypertrophy Training, they Squat for Higher Repetition rather that Low Repetitions.

Higher Repetition Squat means they have more Strength Endurance; able to perform more Repetition with moderate to fairly heavy loads.

Bodybuilder have a Lower 1 Repetition Max because they focus less on Maximum Strength Training.

One of the best example of this is...

Dr Squat Fred Hatfield vs Tom Platz


Tom Platz: 23 Reps @ ~ 525lb / 238kg Squat




Tom Platz (Bodybuilder) and Dr Fred Hatfield (Powerlifter) had a Squat Off.

The Golden Eagle (Tom Platz) got beat soundly (600 to 840) in maximum weight lifted. Both men weighed in at 198 pounds.”

Dr.Squat got his butt whipped. The Golden Eagle (Platz) performed 23 reps with 525 pounds to Dr.Squat’s 11 reps.”
 
Court drills would be SPP2, I think.
I am not familiar with the distinction between SPP1 and SPP2. I tried googling it and could only find articles by Chad Waterbury using these terms.

Can you refer me to additional sources?

It's a semantic issue because these categories are constructs for thinking about and organizing training, but I think in terms of:

GPP = Training that prepares you for sport specific training, addresses the general needs of the sport, and therefore has carryover to sport specific training and performance. GPP is not truly generalized because it still has to have carryover to the needs of the sport and not interfere with the needs of the sport. E.g., a lot of KB drills.

SPP = Training that is similar to what you do in competition. E.g. (in the context of basketball), on-court running, jumping, and agility drills, and specific skill drills.

I guess you could make distinctions between more generalized, indirect, and complementary training and call that GPP, and then training with more targeted specific carryover and call that SPP1 (as Waterbury seems to use the term). But as a basketball player, I find it simpler and more straightforward to just make a distinction between basketball-specific on-court training, and everything else. Otherwise, you get into the weeds of different levels of specificity instead of having a more clear line between general and specific.
 
I am not familiar with the distinction between SPP1 and SPP2. I tried googling it and could only find articles by Chad Waterbury using these terms.

Can you refer me to additional sources?
Sure. I was a bit surprised that in Easy Strength, there is no talk of SPP1 and 2. But I guess it might be included in the upcoming edition by Pavel.

However, Pavel dicusses it briefly in Kettlebells StrongFirst:
Special physical preparation (SPP) is synonymous with “sport specific” exercises. SPP is
subdivided into SPP 2 (highly specific) and SPP 1 (the grey area between GPP and SPP 2).
For BJJ, an explosive lunge against a rubber band simulating a takedown is SPP 2. A half get-up is
SPP 1. A full get-up is GPP.
In Easy Strength he argues that a heavy DL is GPP for Olympic Weightlifters, but adds that there is a continuum from GPP to SPP.
 
All I did for years was swings and was able to maintain neck and neck hill sprints with a semi professional rugby player. I haven’t done a barbell squat in over 3 years and I was doing broad jumps further than anyone in my judo class the other night. So I don’t know. Something is keeping me powerful at 43 years old and all I do is kettlebells and bodyweight stuff and running and a bit of mace bell work. However I will add that, if you are able to barbell squat you should. I think the barbell squat is the greatest barbell lift on earth. Outside of the Olympic lifts.
 
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@Kev Barbell squat... front or back ?
Both lol. I concentrated on the back squat but would also do front squats as an add on. I was a fan of Wendlers 531 and in the original book there was a template where you did back squats every time you set foot in the gym. That was my baby that was. But I’d throw in front squats. Oly style too. I couldn’t do that cross armed body builder style and I couldn’t do the thing with the straps that some guys advocate for front squats.
 
All I did for years was swings and was able to maintain neck and neck hill sprints with a semi professional rugby player. I haven’t done a barbell squat in over 3 years and I was doing broad jumps further than anyone in my judo class the other night. So I don’t know. Something is keeping me powerful at 43 years old and all I do is kettlebells and bodyweight stuff and running and a bit of mace bell work.
To be fair, doing swings + hill sprints + running + judo + bodyweight work + mace bell is more than "just swings".
 
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