Do you plan on keeping the duration around 11 minutes ?View attachment 21629
2h swings x 5. Waited until HR was in Zone 2 before starting each net set.
Comments on this as A+A training? Considering getting used to this and doing it 2-3x/week as part of my powerlifting training.
Thanks in advance for your comments and suggestions
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Do you plan on keeping the duration around 11 minutes ?
I know your MAF HR is 112-113, guessing the ave. in the above session is around 136. My first thought was to get you to 20 + minutes with a lower HR, to get some good motor work in without bothering your DL. I was figuring you were swinging at least 40KG, which swung with power I believe will help your DL. Same with the 48 and 56. As it sits I'd keep doing the above. but would add to the 8 rounds by a couple rounds a week. as an experiment. And I would think the 40 or 48 would be plenty. Trying to keep you out of the GREY ZONE,I don't know.
The twin, and conflicting, goals are conditioning/work capacity on the one hand, and assisting my barbelll deadlift on the other. I don't think 48 kg is heavy enough to do my deadlift much good but I honestly don't know. 56 kg is about 1/3 of my 170 1RM so that seems a better fit. I also have a 64 kg but that seems like it's more than I need - I think the 56 kg for 2h swings will be the sweet spot for my purposes.
My training time is precious, so this was 10 minutes and as many as I happened to get in. I'm comfortable doing more than 5 reps (with the 48 kg I used) in this amount of time and recovering sufficiently, I think, so that's one option for progress, maybe go to 6 reps or 7. Another option, since I'm a competitive deadlifter, is going with a heavier weight. I'm good for at least 10-12 solid reps with a 56 kg if I take long rests, so switching to a heavier weight, keeping 5 reps, and keeping the time the same is another option. The nice thing about this 10-minute session was that I bench pressed shortly afterwards and it didn't feel like the swings took anything away from my strength for the BP.
Too many choices and multiple goals. This was just a shot in the dark for my first go at this.
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I keep going over materials from @Fabio Zonin and I keep seeing Ladders.The twin, and conflicting, goals are conditioning/work capacity on the one hand, and assisting my barbelll deadlift on the other.
Classic A+A is to Kettlebells StrongFirst A+A as Classic Coke is to New Coke"classic" A+A
+1,000,000If you wait longer than necessary, I don't think there's much negative effect, except perhaps some wasted time.
I also think the HR "zone" matters very little for A+A's most important objectives, which are, in my mind, a low-stress way to get in a decent volume of high power training, and let the body get really good at recovering from hard efforts and being ready to go again.
And as to whether to use the HR value as a guide vs. sensations as a guide (breathing settled, a feeling of readiness and restoration for the next set) -- IMO the second is better, but the first can also get you in the ballpark and has its advantages as well.
My MAF HR, according to my Polar app, is 125. My max HR, actual, is 179. Polar says 129 average, 147 max for this session. I assume MAF to be the highest number in my Zone 2. All that in the “for what it’s worth” department.I know your MAF HR is 112-113, guessing the ave. in the above session is around 136.
Andy talks about doing 5x5 and working with each weight until you can do each new set on the minute. I agree that 48 kg or a bit on either side of that seems to be the right weight. But I suspect Andy isn’t trying to recover into a Zone 2 HR.Looking at what Andy Bolton talks about swinging in his article, in terms of % 1RM and % bodyweight makes me think you are definitely in the "useful zone."
I don’t know why but the talk test and other breathing-related tests are not reliable indicators for me. I’ve maxed out my HR while breathing nasally only, and maybe it’s because I play trumpet and French horn every day, but, well, I think recovering to 125 will be ok for me. I’ve actually noticed, when out for a walk, that when the road turns uphill, around 125 is where I start feeling like I’m not recovering easily.I also think the HR "zone" matters very little for A+A's most important objectives, which are, in my mind, a low-stress way to get in a decent volume of high power training, and let the body get really good at recovering from hard efforts and being ready to go again.
Yes, perhaps playing musical instruments. Also Buteyko breathing practice could affect respiration as an indicator.I don’t know why but the talk test and other breathing-related tests are not reliable indicators for me. I’ve maxed out my HR while breathing nasally only, and maybe it’s because I play trumpet and French horn every day
I think it would be fine. But you might find that your "equivalent 125 point" might be somewhat different on any given day. For example, our patterns are similar in the graphs above, and I think they're both about right, but mine is at a lower baseline HR. Partly because you're swinging 48 kg and I'm swinging 32 kg. But there could be other confounders. Based on past experience, mine would be higher (with equivalent load/timing/reps) if it was in the morning and I'd had caffeine, if I was more warmed up with something else prior, if I was a bit more stressed out (sympathetic dominant), if I was less recovered (although sometimes that works the opposite way too -- I found that some days if I was quite under-recovered, my HR would just stay lower than normal and my body had reluctance to even step up to the training task -- I perceived it to be parasympathetic dominance). FWIW, my numbers are similar to yours -- MAF HR about 125, actual max about 179, resting HR usually 50-52.I think recovering to 125 will be ok for me
Makes sense, I was using the MAF 180 formula and forgot to add 10 beats for a fit person 65 or older.My MAF HR, according to my Polar app, is 125. My max HR, actual, is 179. Polar says 129 average, 147 max for this session. I assume MAF to be the highest number in my Zone 2. All that in the “for what it’s worth” department.
Andy talks about doing 5x5 and working with each weight until you can do each new set on the minute. I agree that 48 kg or a bit on either side of that seems to be the right weight. But I suspect Andy isn’t trying to recover into a Zone 2 HR.
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As a tuba player , I do use the talk test which is usually pretty rapid. But now I couple that with heart rate. I look for a tempo at around 140 or so. Which from my memory is Stars and Stripes forever. Once that march starts sagging by my heart rate I know I'm in the 130s.maybe it’s because I play trumpet and French horn every day
This is an interesting subject. As a generalization about myself, I think I'm less "variable" than you describe yourself. Well, that or I'm delusional, the latter being also a distinct possibility. Perhaps Buteyko also plays a part. And FWIW, I have acquired at least some control over my HR, as I imagine you and many of us who exercise regularly have, too. I can look at my pulse rate in the Polar app and make it go down a few bpm, and I can also get it to go up just by thinking about the exercise I'm about to perform. And I am one of those people who is relatively immune to caffeine - double espresso at midnight is no problem for me. Is any of this relevant information? I have no clue whatsoever!I think it would be fine. But you might find that your "equivalent 125 point" might be somewhat different on any given day. For example, our patterns are similar in the graphs above, and I think they're both about right, but mine is at a lower baseline HR. Partly because you're swinging 48 kg and I'm swinging 32 kg. But there could be other confounders. Based on past experience, mine would be higher (with equivalent load/timing/reps) if it was in the morning and I'd had caffeine, if I was more warmed up with something else prior, if I was a bit more stressed out (sympathetic dominant), if I was less recovered (although sometimes that works the opposite way too -- I found that some days if I was quite under-recovered, my HR would just stay lower than normal and my body had reluctance to even step up to the training task -- I perceived it to be parasympathetic dominance).
Yes, quite similar. I haven't taken a true resting pulse in a long time, but my watch tells me that, sitting here in my chair at the computer after having been up and about for a few hours, my pulse was 59 bpm, so a true resting pulse a few bpm lower than that seems reasonable to assume.FWIW, my numbers are similar to yours -- MAF HR about 125, actual max about 179, resting HR usually 50-52.
If you or anyone can find a link to that, it would be interesting to read the original. Thanks in advance.If I remember correctly from the comment section of one of Pavel’s articles about A+A (I believe it is the one with the C&J) he stated that HR in the talk test is significantly higher than MAF HR, so that should be fine.
If the rest of you will forgive a dive into music geekdom ... Several people I know consider march tempo to be 120, not 140.As a tuba player , I do use the talk test which is usually pretty rapid. But now I couple that with heart rate. I look for a tempo at around 140 or so. Which from my memory is Stars and Stripes forever. Once that march starts sagging by my heart rate I know I'm in the 130s.
Yes, my situation, exactly.If I go by talk test I can get myself into overwork territory. And I have.
Far be it from me to launch any kind of criticism against The President's Own.If the rest of you will forgive a dive into music geekdom ... Several people I know consider march tempo to be 120, not 140.
If you or anyone can find a link to that, it would be interesting to read the original. Thanks in advance.
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