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Kettlebell If S&S is considered a good programme for GPP, why would we do other lifts?

Pavel.Kosenkov

Level 5 Valued Member
It's not a provoking question. It's something I ask myself.
If swings and getups are so great, why would I want to do the other lifts from SFG1 skillset?
Why would I add anything to the S&S progression?
In the back of my mind I understand that the SFG1 is the most useful way to use a kettlebell. And that those skills should be practiced.
But - for a regular guy: why would I snatch if I swing? Why would I press, if I do getups?
It's a thought experiment, and I would appreciate external input. Please, let me know what you think.
 
It's not a provoking question. It's something I ask myself.
If swings and getups are so great, why would I want to do the other lifts from SFG1 skillset?
Why would I add anything to the S&S progression?
In the back of my mind I understand that the SFG1 is the most useful way to use a kettlebell. And that those skills should be practiced.
But - for a regular guy: why would I snatch if I swing? Why would I press, if I do getups?
It's a thought experiment, and I would appreciate external input. Please, let me know what you think.
Honestly - one reason, my wife filled our garage with so much gardening stuff - is that it's standing-room only. so the clean & press, and snatch are literally easier to do in there.

also, sometimes there are loading issues. making jumps between getup sizes can be challenging - I have used clean and push press to get my upper body stronger, it helped me manage the heavier bell size a bit better.

So- the way I figure it - it's a part of water seeking a curvy path around some difficult obstacles.
 
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Personally, I want to explore the different movement patterns within the RKC 6.

I don't love get-ups, and the Clean & Press and eventually Snatch seem like honorable movements to learn and perform.

Eventually, when I'm good enough at all of them, I'll probably go to rotating blocks with goblet squats a constant component.
 
Two cents:

Movement variability. That is, while we all use the same basic big movement patterns, learning to coordinate different combinations of movements, in different ways, and also in differing planes of motion (and combinations therein) is something I see as beneficial. I see and like the term “movement options.” The more movement options you have available to complete any “movement task” your body has, the more adaptable and resilient you will be. It’s when our body is forced to handle loads out of trained ranges of motion and movement patterns that we increase risk of injury.
 
It comes down to the age old question, "what are your goals?". S&S is a fantastic GPP, and can serve many people very well and meet all of their needs. However, if you desire sport specific training, hypertrophy, or maximal strength development, you will need to expand your tool box. If S&S meets all of your needs, there is no reason to add anything else besides learning a new movement or testing a particular strength movement.
 
I don't really follow the logic behind the question. Just because one program or set of exercises is good is not a reason for not doing any other program or set of exercises.

Since the last instructor recertification I did, which IIRC was back in 2010 when Pavel was still with the RKC, I've rarely done a swing, and I'm not sure I have done a single get up.
why would I snatch if I swing? Why would I press, if I do getups?
Well, speaking for myself, because I find snatches and presses to be fun and swings and get ups to be not so fun.

I do the drills I enjoy doing and avoid the ones I don't enjoy as much. By far my first priority in my training is whether it is fun. Life is short and in many situations we don't have free choice. In choosing training drills and programs we do. To me, training is less a means to an end, and more a form of play.

One of my favorite quotations is by GK Chesterton: “It is not only possible to say a great deal in praise of play; it is really possible to say the highest things in praise of it. It might reasonably be maintained that the true object of all human life is play. Earth is a task garden; heaven is a playground.”
 
Here is my personal opinion.

Moving the body in multiple ways, with varied loads and a variety of patterns is good for it and for you, and if you are minimalist, is essential to helping you develop your chosen moves.

The get up and swing are all you need, provided you move in a lot of other ways. You can spend the rest of your life pressing and squatting, provided you move in a lot of other ways.

One thing I forgot, and didn't really pay attention to my first time around with SS was that Pavel doesn't just tell you do SS. You are doing mobility work. Halos. Goblet squats. You are stretching after. Once a month or so you are challenging yourself with something else and something hard. At some point, if you want to progress further, he recommends breaking from it and focusing on something else. Barbell strength. ETK. Etc. etc.

The get up and swing can definitely be all someone needs. But in order for them to be all you need, you absolutely need to do more movements to keep progressing and keep healthy.
 
I think of the question inverted:

Why swing if you can clean and snatch?
This is similar to what I was thinking. I see, and am using, s&s as more of a foundations program. If I can’t swing a given bell I’m unlikely to be able to snatch or clean and press it. Building strength in the swing and get up will prepare you to clean, press, snatch go on to double bells work etc. simple offers a standard of a strength in these basics that gives you a solid foundation for the more advanced lifts.
 
Movement variability. That is, while we all use the same basic big movement patterns, learning to coordinate different combinations of movements, in different ways, and also in differing planes of motion (and combinations therein) is something I see as beneficial.
I think we can make the case that the nervous system, especially the central nervous system “craves” movement, especially varied movement. Some might even make the case that a primary purpose of the brain is to learn movement, coordinate movement and move well.

Movement is fun and feels good for the whole being including the nervous system. And while doing a movement often leads to efficiency, we can become neurologically “stale” as we crave other types of movement.
 
Power lifters doesn’t only do bench, squat and deadlifts. They use variations to build muscle, strength and improve weak spots. I bet if you talk to the majority of people who have achieved sinister you’ll see that they’ve used a bunch of exercises to build the strength, conditioning and all things needed to complete the task.
 
I think we can make the case that the nervous system, especially the central nervous system “craves” movement, especially varied movement. Some might even make the case that a primary purpose of the brain is to learn movement, coordinate movement and move well.

Movement is fun and feels good for the whole being including the nervous system. And while doing a movement often leads to efficiency, we can become neurologically “stale” as we crave other types of movement.
Guessing you're familiar with this TED talk.

 
Actually not directly. The idea came up while reading stuff from the MovNat community. But it makes sense.

For example anecdotally

Trailing > road running > treadmill running as far as enjoyment goes and think it’s in part due to the increased variability of the movement.
Benefits of optic flow.
 
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